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Old 05-12-2015, 10:46 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Default Re: What are the Best Dwarf Varieties for Containers for the Midwest? Dwarf Gros Mich

Mine has fruited at 5.5' - 6' under well-fertilized and irrigated conditions. The pictures on the TARS site seem to show a short plant. But, I have seen wide variations in other varieties at different locations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PR-Giants View Post
Veinte Cohol is not a dwarf...but they are tasty...eating some right now

Here they grow to 9 feet.

I think South Georgia was the furthest north that someone was somewhat successful...they had a greenhouse...and averaged 1 oz. fruit.
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Old 05-15-2015, 10:12 PM   #42 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: What are the Best Dwarf Varieties for Containers for the Midwest? Dwarf Gros Mich

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It's the Nature Conservancy of Ohio Protect Ohio Natural Preservation | The Nature Conservancy

They work here with the Kitty Todd Center and Oak Openings preserve, which has brought back several endangered species, both plants and animals. One federally endangered species of butterfly as well, the Karner Blue, it was bordering on extinction. It was brought back into the Kitty Todd preserve and then Oak Openings. We visit both each year, really amazing experience! They have a special limited sale of native species of plants each year (coming up next weekend, actually), if they feel you know what you are doing they will sell special propagations of endangered and rare species of the local genotype for you to help grow and propagate. Ohio Junegrass is one, which we grow, as well as Ohio's species of prickly pear cactus. The whole northern part of Ohio used to all be wetlands, which was about as important to as many species as the rainforests are. Oak Openings and Kitty Todd are probably the only places that are left of what used to be here for thousands of years.
We also do rearing and tagging of Monarch butterflies, which were nearing a threatened status in recent years. It's really rewarding to be able to take part in such things.
I had desired to go to this plant sale, but was unable to. Not only that prickly pear cactus but some milkweed for the monarchs are two things I would have been after. That's cool, I didn't know they brought back the Karner Blue here!
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Old 05-17-2015, 08:51 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Default Re: What are the Best Dwarf Varieties for Containers for the Midwest? Dwarf Gros Mich

Check to see if there's an experienced member nearby that can help you out or go visit Don at Going Bananas. His Veinte Cohol grow 8 to 10 feet and he's helped many members navigate the basics.

There's an experienced member in Louisiana that grows them to 7 feet and maybe he can also give you some tips.

Keep an eye on the folks in South Georgia, if they receive their funding they're planning on growing the Patupi, Tigua, TMB2x 9128-3, Pioneira, & others.

BTW, that was an adorable SCRI support letter.



Quote:
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Mine has fruited at 5.5' - 6' under well-fertilized and irrigated conditions. The pictures on the TARS site seem to show a short plant. But, I have seen wide variations in other varieties at different locations.
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Old 05-17-2015, 09:48 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Default Re: What are the Best Dwarf Varieties for Containers for the Midwest? Dwarf Gros Mich

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Originally Posted by venturabananas View Post
If you search around on the org you'll find some threads on this topic.

The short answer is that it is possible, but relies on luck or great ability to time when to cut to ensure you have an adequate number of leaves emerge before the bunch does to fill the fruit. Without enough leaf surface area to provide carbohydrates to fill the fruits, you'll end up with small fruit or fruit that never fill. I have unintentionally done some experiments like this my yard.
So you cut the stem, and put in water or something? And it will continue to finish growing the fruit? That would be unbelievable (literally). Seriously?
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Old 05-17-2015, 10:07 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Default Re: What are the Best Dwarf Varieties for Containers for the Midwest? Dwarf Gros Mich

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Originally Posted by RRedBBeard View Post
Could you post a link to that study please?

SSP--what banana cultivar did you finally select, and what was your experience with that?

Thanks,
--Rick in CT
Hi Rick,
I am still deciding..
Patupi sounds good because of the quick flowering to fruiting cycle.
Dwarf Gros Michel still maybe possible if it is short enough in height (under 7 feet) to grow indoors in winter. Outdoors in summer.
Dwarf Cavendish would be last resort, of course this is sold all over for indoors. But you don't get anything you can't buy at the store.

I definitely want full size bananas (8" plus) of high quality, if possible.
Price and availability play a factor, both of those are up to anyone here I can get any of them from. Dwarf Cavendish can be bought for $4.99 a plant.
Quotes on others are over 10 times that.
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Old 05-17-2015, 10:16 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Default Re: What are the Best Dwarf Varieties for Containers for the Midwest? Dwarf Gros Mich

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Originally Posted by Nicolas Naranja View Post
Veintecohol is dwarf and fills out quickly...the fruit are tasty.
I have a variety that came to me as Baloy. It fruits at 4-4.5 feet and makes a 20-25 lbs bunch of cavendish type bananas.
How does flavor compare to Cavendish? Gros Michel?
What is the time from sucker to flowering? Flowering to ripe fruit?
It might be something that would suit me!
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Old 05-17-2015, 10:18 PM   #47 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: What are the Best Dwarf Varieties for Containers for the Midwest? Dwarf Gros Mich

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So you cut the stem, and put in water or something? And it will continue to finish growing the fruit? That would be unbelievable (literally). Seriously?
No, you cut the pseudostem to reduce the height of the plant, then the flower comes up the pseudostem and blooms on the plant, which is now shorter than it was before you chopped it.
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Old 05-17-2015, 10:21 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Default Re: What are the Best Dwarf Varieties for Containers for the Midwest? Dwarf Gros Mich

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Originally Posted by PR-Giants View Post
Veinte Cohol is not a dwarf...but they are tasty...eating some right now

Here they grow to 9 feet.

I think South Georgia was the furthest north that someone was somewhat successful...they had a greenhouse...and averaged 1 oz. fruit.
He said 4.5 ft., its not?
So is it heat that is the reason it won't grow up north?
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Old 05-17-2015, 10:34 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Default Re: What are the Best Dwarf Varieties for Containers for the Midwest? Dwarf Gros Mich

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I had desired to go to this plant sale, but was unable to. Not only that prickly pear cactus but some milkweed for the monarchs are two things I would have been after. That's cool, I didn't know they brought back the Karner Blue here!
Yep, they did at the Toledo Zoo, reintroduced at Kitty Todd and Oak Openings Preserve. Basically they were almost extinct.
You can get these natives any time at Naturally Native Nursery in Bowling Green (ask for Jan). She will hook you up
They only had some common milkweed at the sale. NNN has swamp and more.
Ohio Prickly Pear is rare, so 's hard to get. They did have some, we got one more plant. Ours from last year is growing extremely well, its able to be propagated after a year so. (Cuttings/seed).
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Old 05-17-2015, 10:38 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Default Re: What are the Best Dwarf Varieties for Containers for the Midwest? Dwarf Gros Mich

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No, you cut the pseudostem to reduce the height of the plant, then the flower comes up the pseudostem and blooms on the plant, which is now shorter than it was before you chopped it.
So it is cutting it back?
At what stage would you do this?
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Old 05-19-2015, 03:02 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Default Re: What are the Best Dwarf Varieties for Containers for the Midwest? Dwarf Gros Mich

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Originally Posted by SSP View Post
How does flavor compare to Cavendish? Gros Michel?
What is the time from sucker to flowering? Flowering to ripe fruit?
It might be something that would suit me!
Baloy taste exactly like Cavendish

Veinticohol is the plant that PR-Giants says that it gets to nine feet.


I am 6' tall
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Old 05-19-2015, 05:50 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Default Re: What are the Best Dwarf Varieties for Containers for the Midwest? Dwarf Gros Mich

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Originally Posted by Nicolas Naranja View Post
Baloy taste exactly like Cavendish

Veinticohol is the plant that PR-Giants says that it gets to nine feet.


I am 6' tall
Ah, its Baloy you were talking about, I read wrong..
Looks like what you are standing by gets about 7-8 feet or so (leaves), but the fruit bears that low? Looks like the fruit is at 4 feet or so. If that's the case, maybe some of the top leaves could be pruned if needed?
But if it tastes like Cavendish, I could just grow Dwarf Cavendish.. unless there's some other factor that makes it better..
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Old 05-20-2015, 08:51 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Default Re: What are the Best Dwarf Varieties for Containers for the Midwest? Dwarf Gros Mich

There are hundreds of Dwarf Cavendish. The Double flowers under 5' and produces 60 lb. bunches, and there's also the Parfitt accompanied with all the DPMs. In the tropics Cavendish take about 3.5 months after the bloom to harvest, which might take 4.5 to 5 months in cooler areas, so it's probably not good too far north.





Quote:
Originally Posted by SSP View Post
Ah, its Baloy
But if it tastes like Cavendish, I could just grow Dwarf Cavendish.. unless there's some other factor that makes it better..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolas Naranja View Post
It looks like Baloy is going to top out pretty short (5'). The pre-flag leaf is coming out. Some kind of dwarf cavendish.
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Old 05-20-2015, 08:55 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Default Re: What are the Best Dwarf Varieties for Containers for the Midwest? Dwarf Gros Mich

Going Bananas of Homestead Florida Banana & Banana Plant Descriptions

VEINTE COHOL - A dessert variety originating in the Philippine area and having green pseudostem with some brown patches. The small plump fruit (3-4") are soft and sweet. Height about 8-10 ft. Current research shows it to be rapid to fruit, a real plus in the short summers. This is what you have been asking for, one that fruits fast before the warmth is gone for those short growing seasons!



Quote:
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Veinticohol is the plant that PR-Giants says that it gets to nine feet.
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Old 05-20-2015, 10:13 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Default Re: What are the Best Dwarf Varieties for Containers for the Midwest? Dwarf Gros Mich

how about rajapuri? they stay small enough to handle well in a pot. idk about fruit. By the way we live in Indiana, and I haven't grown anything yet that fruits in less than four years the first time, then they seem to fruit every other year here.
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Old 05-21-2015, 03:39 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Default Re: What are the Best Dwarf Varieties for Containers for the Midwest? Dwarf Gros Mich

I hate to admit being wrong, but I think VC is actually closer to 8'.

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Old 05-22-2015, 01:53 AM   #57 (permalink)
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Default Re: What are the Best Dwarf Varieties for Containers for the Midwest? Dwarf Gros Mich

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Originally Posted by PR-Giants View Post
Going Bananas of Homestead Florida Banana & Banana Plant Descriptions

VEINTE COHOL - A dessert variety originating in the Philippine area and having green pseudostem with some brown patches. The small plump fruit (3-4") are soft and sweet. Height about 8-10 ft. Current research shows it to be rapid to fruit, a real plus in the short summers. This is what you have been asking for, one that fruits fast before the warmth is gone for those short growing seasons!
Well, other varieties mentioned still seem more suited. The Veinte Cohol is too tall for indoors at any time of the year, not "full size" fruit (8 inches or more), and probably not any faster fruiting (nor shows any better performance in "cooler" climates) than a Patupi. Correct? And Patupi is shorter in height? Full size fruit? Good quality fruit? So that would still make Patupi theoretically better, even if "unproven" in our climate. (Since neither is VC).
Dwarf Cavendishes are very proven to work indoors and in our climate. They are sold everywhere for indoors, so they must perform well in cooler conditions. "Double" -- Is that a Dwarf Cavendish cultivar? 5 feet, 60 pounds fruit? Full size bananas (8 inches)? That would be extremely ideal, if it (like other DC's) performs well indoors and "cooler" areas. The only drawback is again, it probably isn't any different from store bought fruit.
A word about northern USA climates, at least here (midwest), our summers are hot. 85-100 degrees F at times. Night temps in 70's.
Indoor temps average near 75-80 F.
If I settled with a DC, "Double" sounds possibly ideal to try, depending on fruit quality.
Patupi also still seems near the top of the list.
Of course I'll always want to try some form of Gros Michel, if there was any feasible way. If there was a shorter plant (shortest I heard of is called "Lowgate", but who knows), and one that has a faster cycle, and can tolerate slightly cooler temps. But does one exist?
From the info posted, these seem to be the top 3 to try here, but all of you have way more experience so maybe my points still aren't valid for these selections. Price is also a factor, otherwise I would try all of them :P
So let me know further opinions..

Last edited by SSP : 05-22-2015 at 01:55 AM.
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Old 05-22-2015, 07:19 AM   #58 (permalink)
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Default Re: What are the Best Dwarf Varieties for Containers for the Midwest? Dwarf Gros Mich

At least you eventually learnt.

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I hate to admit being wrong, but I think VC is actually closer to 8'.
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Old 05-22-2015, 07:21 AM   #59 (permalink)
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Default Re: What are the Best Dwarf Varieties for Containers for the Midwest? Dwarf Gros Mich

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Dwarf Cavendish are very proven to work indoors and in our climate.

They are sold everywhere for indoors, so they must perform well in cooler conditions.
Good Luck with that... keep us posted

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Well, other varieties mentioned still seem more suited. The Veinte Cohol is too tall for indoors at any time of the year, not "full size" fruit (8 inches or more), and probably not any faster fruiting (nor shows any better performance in "cooler" climates) than a Patupi. Correct? And Patupi is shorter in height? Full size fruit? Good quality fruit? So that would still make Patupi theoretically better, even if "unproven" in our climate. (Since neither is VC).
Dwarf Cavendishes are very proven to work indoors and in our climate. They are sold everywhere for indoors, so they must perform well in cooler conditions. "Double" -- Is that a Dwarf Cavendish cultivar? 5 feet, 60 pounds fruit? Full size bananas (8 inches)? That would be extremely ideal, if it (like other DC's) performs well indoors and "cooler" areas. The only drawback is again, it probably isn't any different from store bought fruit.
A word about northern USA climates, at least here (midwest), our summers are hot. 85-100 degrees F at times. Night temps in 70's.
Indoor temps average near 75-80 F.
If I settled with a DC, "Double" sounds possibly ideal to try, depending on fruit quality.
Patupi also still seems near the top of the list.
Of course I'll always want to try some form of Gros Michel, if there was any feasible way. If there was a shorter plant (shortest I heard of is called "Lowgate", but who knows), and one that has a faster cycle, and can tolerate slightly cooler temps. But does one exist?
From the info posted, these seem to be the top 3 to try here, but all of you have way more experience so maybe my points still aren't valid for these selections. Price is also a factor, otherwise I would try all of them :P
So let me know further opinions..
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Old 05-22-2015, 10:15 AM   #60 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: What are the Best Dwarf Varieties for Containers for the Midwest? Dwarf Gros Mich

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how about rajapuri? they stay small enough to handle well in a pot. idk about fruit. By the way we live in Indiana, and I haven't grown anything yet that fruits in less than four years the first time, then they seem to fruit every other year here.
I'd choose Rajapuri over Dwarf Cavendish, based on my tastes and how they both perform in my climate. It certainly is more cool tolerant. In my yard, the two varieties are pretty much the same height.
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