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Old 06-07-2022, 01:25 PM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Party Viente Cohol vs Patupi/Kokopo for Zone 6b or 5a Patio Plant for Fruiting

Hi all —

I've been a container banana guy for a few years now and I'd like to try to get one to fruit. I was looking through some research — and read every post I could do in a search history of the forums — and it seems like the VC or the Patupi/Kokopo are generally considered the fastest to fruit and best for short seasons. And our friend Larry happens to sell them!

I'm curious if anyone has tried to work with them to fruit in containers in the North. I'm in zone 6b near Boston, but with areas of only limited daylight and not much space; my parents are in 5a up in NH, with a deck that gets 10+ hours of sun in the summer and a decent place to overwinter it.

But I'm reading conflicting reports about how cold interacts with either and how quickly one can get it to fruit (in a single summer season in these zones?), and am curious if anyone has any info for me.
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Old 06-07-2022, 03:34 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Viente Cohol vs Patupi/Kokopo for Zone 6b or 5a Patio Plant for Fruiting

bump .......i finally have figured out what bump means. banana bucks, no. ....................slow.....
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Old 06-08-2022, 10:08 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Viente Cohol vs Patupi/Kokopo for Zone 6b or 5a Patio Plant for Fruiting

Key thing is the Viente Cohol can't get below 50F or it will shutdown.. below 40F its going to deteriorate very fast.The banana's are one of my favorites.
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Old 06-08-2022, 12:47 PM   #4 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Viente Cohol vs Patupi/Kokopo for Zone 6b or 5a Patio Plant for Fruiting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abnshrek View Post
Key thing is the Viente Cohol can't get below 50F or it will shutdown.. below 40F its going to deteriorate very fast.The banana's are one of my favorites.
When you say "shutdown," what do you mean? Pause growth?

In the case where I bring it to my parents' place in NH, it is above 50F most nights (but not necessarily all nights) by Memorial Day and through until late September, and I'd be able to overwinter it in a house that is kept above (but close to) 50F. So pause/slowing seems fine (although something that was a bit more resilient would be better), but a more impactful 'shutdown' would be more damaging.
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Old 06-08-2022, 08:43 PM   #5 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Viente Cohol vs Patupi/Kokopo for Zone 6b or 5a Patio Plant for Fruiting

HI Petey

I grew both of these in Pennsylvania. I'd say you can expect fruit in 3 to 4 years for your growing conditions. Your plants will lose leaves twice a year when taken inside and then back outside with the changing seasons. Winter growth is one new leaf every 2 - 3 weeks and summer growth is one leaf a week for me. Your mileage may vary ....

Good luck

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Old 06-09-2022, 08:36 AM   #6 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Viente Cohol vs Patupi/Kokopo for Zone 6b or 5a Patio Plant for Fruiting

thanks geissene! I just read your thread last night. Which did you prefer growing?
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Old 06-09-2022, 09:56 AM   #7 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Viente Cohol vs Patupi/Kokopo for Zone 6b or 5a Patio Plant for Fruiting

Well from my experience my Veinte Cohol is pretty cold hardy.
The stem received minimal damage through winter and it got down to 28F one night. It continued growing in the spring no problem.

It's a true dwarf banana. 6ft fence for scale.
Would make a good container plant for sure but still pretty big if you need to move it indoors.

If you the space and a big dolly I'd say go for it...

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Varieties I'm Growing

From Corm/Pup
Dwarf Cavendish ○ Super Dwarf Cavendish ○ Grand Nain ○ Niño ○ Manzano ○ Raja Puri ○ Tall Namwah ○ Blue Java ○ 1000 Fingers ○ Praying Hands ○ Orinoco ○ Variegated Florida ○ PR Red ○ California Gold ○ FHIA-03 Sweetheart

Plantains
Puerto Rican Dwarf Plantain ○ African Rhino Horn

From TC
Truly Tiny ○ Manzano ○ "Blue Java" ○ Dwarf Namwah ○ Thai Black ○ Veinte Cohol
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Old 06-09-2022, 04:44 PM   #8 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Viente Cohol vs Patupi/Kokopo for Zone 6b or 5a Patio Plant for Fruiting

I've fruited both and it seems to me that the VC is the more reliable of the two plus its shorter (6-7' pstem). The patupi grows pretty tall (8-9') for me and I was disapointed in the banana flavor after I finally got it to fruit.
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Old 06-09-2022, 07:53 PM   #9 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Viente Cohol vs Patupi/Kokopo for Zone 6b or 5a Patio Plant for Fruiting

The Veinte cohol grows easier and bigger for me. The patupi produced more edible fruit. I kept both in 15 gallon pots. Timing is key - you need a flower to emerge about 2 months before the cool weather comes and you also want your plant to have 8+ full size leaves for fruit to fill / ripen fast. Having both happen is not likely. I've given up with fruiting AAs. I still keep Patupi because it looks nice, but I mainly grow ABBs because they can handle the cold weather better.

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Old 06-09-2022, 08:29 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Smile Re: Viente Cohol vs Patupi/Kokopo for Zone 6b or 5a Patio Plant for Fruiting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petey View Post
Hi all —

But I'm reading conflicting reports about how cold interacts with either and how quickly one can get it to fruit (in a single summer season in these zones?), and am curious if anyone has any info for me.
I have grown both plants in zone 5/6.
With 150+day grow window it is difficult to get these plants to flower.
The plants are daylight and cool sensitive and do not work well without some winter heroics with supplemental lighting for 7 months.
The plants will have a larger footprint to overwinter indoors making them difficult to light.
Both plants do well in the south and tropics.
In our zone expect a flower in 3-5 years.


Geissene is the only forum member in the far north that has gotten documented fruit.
I suspect Subsonicdrone will be next

Go ahead and try growing Patupi and closely observe the way the plants react to your grow zone and overwintering....these plants will teach you something.
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Old 06-09-2022, 08:53 PM   #11 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Viente Cohol vs Patupi/Kokopo for Zone 6b or 5a Patio Plant for Fruiting

Quote:
Originally Posted by geissene View Post
The Veinte cohol grows easier and bigger for me. The patupi produced more edible fruit. I kept both in 15 gallon pots. Timing is key - you need a flower to emerge about 2 months before the cool weather comes and you also want your plant to have 8+ full size leaves for fruit to fill / ripen fast. Having both happen is not likely. I've given up with fruiting AAs. I still keep Patupi because it looks nice, but I mainly grow ABBs because they can handle the cold weather better.

Erik
Thanks. I've been reading through your backlog of posts trying to learn as much as I can!

I see my hope for a single summer fruiting was overly optimistic, but I'm now cautiously optimistic that my parents place (they're in like a weird 5b/possibly 6a microclimate on the side of a hill in central NH) could be a good fruiting option. Their deck gets lots of sun, and in the winter there's a spot in the great room that gets indirect light and never drops below 50F where I overwintered a Mahoi last winter.

The biggest thing I'm trying to figure out for VC/patupi right now is the "how cold is too cold," because their location only has maybe 8 weeks of the year when the evening temperature is reliably above 60F, but 12-16 weeks above 50F. I've managed to fruit hot peppers there that have a 120 day growing season by starting them inside in February under grow lights and moving them outside in June.

So basically I'm wondering if it makes sense to select a different cultivar of banana that is a little less "short season" but a little more robust to the cold (but a little more interesting/exotic than what I have, which are several kinds of dwarf cavendish, plus what is probably a tall namwah I'm keeping stunted in my own living room down near Boston, and not trying to fruit, at least yet).

What are ABBs?

edit: got it https://www.promusa.org/ABB+genome+group

Quote:
Originally Posted by cincinnana View Post
I have grown both plants in zone 5/6.
With 150+day grow window it is difficult to get these plants to flower.
The plants are daylight and cool sensitive and do not work well without some winter heroics with supplemental lighting for 7 months.
The plants will have a larger footprint to overwinter indoors making them difficult to light.
Both plants do well in the south and tropics.
In our zone expect a flower in 3-5 years.


Geissene is the only forum member in the far north that has gotten documented fruit.
I suspect Subsonicdrone will be next

Go ahead and try growing Patupi and closely observe the way the plants react to your grow zone and overwintering....these plants will teach you something.
I sent a DM to you because I wasn't sure if you'd ever gotten anything to fruit! Thanks for clearing that up. I saw that you seemed skeptical/frustrated of both of these cultivars so I was interested in your opinion. Will be setting my expectations accordingly.

I actually had to plan some interior landscaping for my new office, which has huge southern facing windows, and I made sure we picked a couple of banana plants. They get rolled outside in the summer and inside behind those windows in the winter, so we'll see...

Last edited by Petey : 06-10-2022 at 06:31 AM.
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Old 06-10-2022, 07:59 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Smile Re: Viente Cohol vs Patupi/Kokopo for Zone 6b or 5a Patio Plant for Fruiting

A plant to consider is Orinoco.
The plant is common, inexpensive and somewhat hard to kill.
They overwinter well indoors and tolerate cooler 60- northern temps.

The plant has a large taller footprint similiar to the rest of them.
Expect a flower in 3-5+ years in your zone.
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Old 06-11-2022, 07:37 PM   #13 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Viente Cohol vs Patupi/Kokopo for Zone 6b or 5a Patio Plant for Fruiting

I think any type is worth trying and plants are relatively cheap compared to other hobbies. I recall that Sandy (on this forum) fruited a Saba plant in SE Pennsylvania a few years ago.

I'd suggest staggering growth of your bananas so that you only have one or two large plants to deal with during the winter. This allows me to grow different varieties at the same time without filling up my entire house. When winter comes, I just select which plants/pups will be brought inside based on size. My bananas grow maybe 2-3' taller each year and then slow down as they reach the terminal height. Getting the timing right is difficult but you can slightly control it with watering / fertilizer / shade cloth.
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Old 06-13-2022, 12:59 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: Viente Cohol vs Patupi/Kokopo for Zone 6b or 5a Patio Plant for Fruiting

I think Sandy is from Indiana and some big greenhouses.. I'm fixin to plant some saba's just got them down here.. So Far I planted 2x Dwarf Namwah's, sh-3640, Pisang Klotek, and a Cali Gold.. Cali gold being a dwarf Orinoco of sorts would be my cold weather container plant cuz its not going to die unless u loose heat in ur house for 2 weeks during the winter..
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Old 06-13-2022, 07:28 PM   #15 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Viente Cohol vs Patupi/Kokopo for Zone 6b or 5a Patio Plant for Fruiting

Fact check: The forum member was sandylbuck from PA.

Another Sandy!
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