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Old 05-22-2018, 11:03 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Joy Is there a relation between Pups and flowering?

Well 4 of 6 plants in the Arboretum are now pushing up Pups.
Is this an indication that flowering might be on the way.
All the plants are 2+ years old and never see temps below 65*F. But most of the time they are at 70*F+ except in the summer when the room gets up to 80*F. Neighbor keeps ribbing me about do I have Bananas yet.

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Old 05-25-2018, 02:43 PM   #2 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Is there a relation between Pups and flowering?

No one has made a reply to your question, so I'll give my opinion.


I would say No. A healthy plant & corm pushing several new pups is a sign of a mature corm which the older pstem may or may not be ready to flower.


In the case of potted plants, a mature corm may simply be growing a new pstem (s) while the older one will soon die back due to age. This is seen a lot with nursery plants that hasn't sold quickly and likely more than one or two years old. ... I try to buy these at a discount. I show the sale person the dead stump of the original plant and tell them the plant is dying.


The corm (even young ones) may push a pup if stressed for some reason (diseased, cold, heat or injury). I have a new plant I received which appears to have experienced very cold temps during shipping. The corm was about the size of a tennis ball. The pstem seemed to recover and grow some. Then it stalled and I cut it back. A new leaf grew and stalled again. This time it died to the top of the corm. Shortly a new pup started growing. The pup got about 10" tall, then stalled. I dug up the mother corm and found it was rotting. I cut the pup off with some roots and repotted it in sand (3 weeks ago). It hasn't started growing yet. ... The mother corm, I cleaned; cut away all the rotten parts and had about 1/3 left. The corm center was gone. I repotted it in sand (3 weeks ago); yesterday I found a new pup breaking the surface. .... yea!...



I have a transplanted pup that froze over the winter and the corm rotted away leaving a hole. A new pup grew about 10 " away from the hole. This one had to come from a node on a living nana root.


There are so many different reasons a pup will grow that one wouldn't know if flowing is indicated. Most banana plants will push pups months before flowering.
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Old 05-25-2018, 05:32 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Joy Is there a relation between Pups and flowering?

Thanks for the reply. Plants look strong and it seems like all the pups have sprouted at the same time (4 out of 6 plants).
Really would like to see Bananas in the arboretum.

Thanks,
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Old 05-25-2018, 06:32 PM   #4 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Is there a relation between Pups and flowering?

Give it plenty of fertilizer and potassium sulfate!
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Old 05-25-2018, 07:51 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is there a relation between Pups and flowering?

Quote:
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... All the plants are 2+ years old and never see temps below 65*F. But most of the time they are at 70*F+ except in the summer when the room gets up to 80*F. ...
Direct overhead solar spectrum light at appropriate wattage is important, along with adequate root space -- 15+ gallons per plant.
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Old 05-26-2018, 09:21 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Joy Is there a relation between Pups and flowering?

I am using Grow More 16-8-24.
The Arboretum is supplied by 5 skylights facing SE, One Suntube 14 inches and one 10 inches facing Direct South. And one 4' T-5 (6500) vertically behind each plant. And 9 more T-5's on the other side of the room (mainly for the Vegetables in the Aquaponic System) but allot of that light gets to the Banana Plants also.

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Old 05-26-2018, 06:56 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is there a relation between Pups and flowering?

I believe the Suntube output in the 6500K spectrum is small compared to its total output in the visual spectrum.
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Old 05-27-2018, 07:34 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Is there a relation between Pups and flowering?

Richard,
The Suntubes are long stainless steel tubes with an outside dome facing south and a glass window of sorts in the room. Does that effect the light spectrum as it enters the room?

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Old 05-27-2018, 07:50 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is there a relation between Pups and flowering?

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Richard,
The Suntubes are long stainless steel tubes with an outside dome facing south and a glass window of sorts in the room. Does that effect the light spectrum as it enters the room?
Craig
I'm sorry, there is commercial product by that name using MH emitters.

My concern about using your device for plant light: it only delivers as much energy as is incident on the area of the collection window, minus transmission loss through glass and reflection. In your location on a clear day in the summer around noon the incident solar energy is about 800 W / sq.meter. Depending on the quality of glass the loss will be about 15% per plate. Depending on the quality of mirrored surfaces the loss will be about 3% per reflection.
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Old 05-28-2018, 12:58 PM   #10 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Is there a relation between Pups and flowering?

Ed... Do you have issues with your plants stalling often? I ask because if I use anything containing potassium sulfate, my plants growth comes to a complete halt for a few days up to a month if I use enough. I have most of a 5 lb bag I will no longer use because it does this. I also have a bag of nice fertilizer with minors which uses SOP and it did it as well...At least it's still useful for other plants.
MOP does not do this to my bananas.
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Varieties I supposedly bought: Manzano, Cavendish, Blue Java, Sweetheart, and Gros Michel.
What it seems I actually have: Brazilian, Cavendish, Namwah, Dwarf Red, Gros Michel, Pisang Ceylon, Veinte Cohol and SH 3640, and American Goldfinger. FHIA 1, Paggi and FHIA 17... Always room for one more.
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Old 05-28-2018, 03:02 PM   #11 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Is there a relation between Pups and flowering?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sputinc7 View Post
Ed... Do you have issues with your plants stalling often? I ask because if I use anything containing potassium sulfate, my plants growth comes to a complete halt for a few days up to a month if I use enough. I have most of a 5 lb bag I will no longer use because it does this. I also have a bag of nice fertilizer with minors which uses SOP and it did it as well...At least it's still useful for other plants.
MOP does not do this to my bananas.

I haven't really noticed any stalling due to SOP. ... I use a farm/field grade granular (1/8" to 3/16" grains) SOP which is made to dissolve slowly over an few months/growing season "if" the soil isn't dry and has plenty of rain. I spread the dry/granular SOP in a wide circle (2 or 3 ft) around the plants.


I think I need to give a little explanation, then you or we might figure out what is happening.



SOP is 0-0-50 with about 17 -22% sulfur. The sulfur helps to acidify the soil for acid loving plants, garden vegetables, bananas, ect. ... The potassium is in a more useful form for plants to takeup. ... My soil is neutral, so the SOP helps to lower the PH for bananas.



MOP is 0-0-60 and has 48% chloride. The potassium is not in a usable form for plants and has to be broken down in the soil before the plant can take it up. It is cheaper to buy. ... My last bag was MOP at $14 for 50lb the supplier was out of the SOP.



Both SOP & MOP are used to make fertilizers. Most vegetable garden fertilizes with more sulfur is made with SOP.


SOP dissolves in water at these concentrations: 111 g/L (20 C)
120 g/L (25 C); 240 g/L (100 C). Which is why I put 2 or 3 lbs of granular SOP in a bucket of water for a few days then divided that (about 2 gal) between 3 plants with bunches last fall 2Xs a week to push the bunches.


Now back to your situation. You said you have a 5 lb bag, so I presume you bought the commonly available 'FINE' grind of SOP from the garden centers which will quickly dissolve in water. ... You still need to be aware of the correct amount of potassium to add as a supplement to the fertilizer and the typical 1 lb of potassium needed by the banana plant for the growing season. ... You may need to reduce the dosage and apply more often.



Also check your soil PH. You may need to use MOP if the soil is acidic.


From past comments by other forum members that successfully flower their bananas, I think we can easily increase fertilizer by a factor of 2 (may be a little more). The key is to watch stalling & distorted leaves and back off some.


I made recent post that I applied 30 lbs of MOP in my large nana patch and 26 lbs of SOP in the small patch. This is about 1/2 of the P needed for the year with 10-10-10 fertilizer.


I hate it when I sound like a teacher but that is what happens when a Farm Boy becomes an Engineer and has some technical writing training. This wasn't intended to be that way but just a little enlightenment how SOP (0-0-50) from the manufactures can be different.



Hope this helps.
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Old 05-28-2018, 03:10 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is there a relation between Pups and flowering?

CraigSS is using 16-8-24 Fruit Fuel which contains plenty of plant accessible potash. I recommend against adding further potash with this product as you risk potassium toxicity.
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Old 05-28-2018, 04:08 PM   #13 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Is there a relation between Pups and flowering?

I agree. !0 to 15 lbs should be plenty. But he needs to check the soil Ph. Fla soils seem to have a wide variation and water table may be close to the surface.
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Old 05-28-2018, 10:14 PM   #14 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Is there a relation between Pups and flowering?

It is the fine SOP... My soil Ph is high.. around 7-8 and I add sulfur yearly to help with that, so the sulfur is not the problem. I have the issue with the growth stoppage even when using a commercial preparation with SOP already in it.
I understand that the SOP is more readily available and don't know why it does, but it does, no matter how the SOP is formulated. I have tried 3 different types of commercially available fertilizers with SOP in them, 2 were "organic" and I had the issue every time, my bananas stop growing for a while. A little over a year ago I added a little too much SOP and some bananas stopped growing over a month, with no other effects but a mild curling of the leaf edges...
Also, in my area, the water table is several feet below the surface, so that isn't an issue. I am on a high spot surrounded by deep canals.
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Varieties I supposedly bought: Manzano, Cavendish, Blue Java, Sweetheart, and Gros Michel.
What it seems I actually have: Brazilian, Cavendish, Namwah, Dwarf Red, Gros Michel, Pisang Ceylon, Veinte Cohol and SH 3640, and American Goldfinger. FHIA 1, Paggi and FHIA 17... Always room for one more.

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Old 05-29-2018, 07:06 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Joy Is there a relation between Pups and flowering?

My PH is good, soil stays moist (can not over water there is a drain in the bottom of every pot to prevent water logging. Pups are still coming up strong on the 4 out of six plants. So I guess I should be happy and more patient for a flower to show up.

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Old 05-29-2018, 08:36 AM   #16 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Is there a relation between Pups and flowering?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigSS View Post
I am using Grow More 16-8-24.
The Arboretum is supplied by 5 skylights facing SE, One Suntube 14 inches and one 10 inches facing Direct South. And one 4' T-5 (6500) vertically behind each plant. And 9 more T-5's on the other side of the room (mainly for the Vegetables in the Aquaponic System) but allot of that light gets to the Banana Plants also.

Craig
I think you are misusing the word, "arboretum." An arboretum is a botanical garden devoted to trees. Maybe, "solarium" is a better term.
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Old 05-29-2018, 08:41 AM   #17 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Is there a relation between Pups and flowering?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sputinc7 View Post
It is the fine SOP... My soil Ph is high.. around 7-8 and I add sulfur yearly to help with that, so the sulfur is not the problem. I have the issue with the growth stoppage even when using a commercial preparation with SOP already in it.
I understand that the SOP is more readily available and don't know why it does, but it does, no matter how the SOP is formulated. I have tried 3 different types of commercially available fertilizers with SOP in them, 2 were "organic" and I had the issue every time, my bananas stop growing for a while. A little over a year ago I added a little too much SOP and some bananas stopped growing over a month, with no other effects but a mild curling of the leaf edges...
Also, in my area, the water table is several feet below the surface, so that isn't an issue. I am on a high spot surrounded by deep canals.

Ok ... I'm a little confused, but to get clear:


CraigSS is using the Grow More Fruit Fuel 16-8-24 and his plants are in pots. That is a different situation. Extra Potassium should not be needed. But I do not know if the fertilizer mix is a 'slow release' or quick release type. Follow the manufacturer directions.


Sputinc7's plants are in the ground. What type of fertilizer are you using? I don't think you can easily tell if the manufacture used MOP or SOP in the formulation. It is not listed as such. But from the Chloride & sulfur content one can make a guess. ... Again is the fertilizer a slow release or quick release type? Low cost general fertilizers are quick release; slow release cost a lot more & is made for potted plants. ... However I don't think the problem is with the SOP but cause by the nitrogen in the mix burning the roots. Reduce application dosage and increase frequency and spread in a bigger area around the plant.
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Old 05-29-2018, 09:14 AM   #18 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Is there a relation between Pups and flowering?

Quote:
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My PH is good, soil stays moist (can not over water there is a drain in the bottom of every pot to prevent water logging. Pups are still coming up strong on the 4 out of six plants. So I guess I should be happy and more patient for a flower to show up.

Craig

That's not exactly true. Peat in the soil mix holds water like a sponge. Thus, the reason banana potting mixs has 30% to 50 % perlite added.


Try this trick. Take a piece of yarn double it so it is about 10". Push this through the drain holes Up toward the pot center a few inches. Let the rest hang down. Do this about 3 places around the pot. After a few hours check to see if yarn is wet and water is dripping off. Set the pot up on something so the yarn will hang down. ....
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