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Banana Plant Health And Maintenance Topics This forum is for discussions of banana plant health topics such as coloration issues, burning, insects, pruning, transplanting, separating pups, viruses, disease, and other general banana plant health and maintenance issues.


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Old 09-04-2017, 09:53 AM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Default What is wrong here? Yellowing leaves and midribs

All summer most of my bananas have grown well, but after a week of no rain in the Florida heat, I watered a little with my sprinkler. About 2 tenths of an inch worth of water. Next day one plant's leaves had yellow swaths on them, others just had yellow midribs. I watered using my well last winter and this didn't happen, but this has happened before. I had suspected that my well water was sometimes hurting my plants, sometimes not. It all makes no sense. It's frustrating. Other people plant bananas, water them, fertilize them then eat them. Why is there always some crazy issue here for me?

See first, my Paggi, which has not been growing too strong (Don't know why), but growing... It was all green before the watering and that is not sun on the leaves or some camera glitch, it happened overnight after watering...



This is one of my Goldfingers. It was growing like crazy all summer until I watered it with the hose. It's growth nearly stopped, then began again, slowly. Note the one leaf pointing upward... green midrib. the rest have the sickly yellow midribs which also happens overnight after watering.



Then there is this guy... My VC. it is probably not going to make it. It was growing pretty nice until a critter tore it up last winter... It has never been the same. My guess is it has the black stuff on the corm like the PC I had near it. (Which also was torn up and never the same.) I am testing a radical replanting on the PC to see if it fixes this before I move anything else. I dug it, cleaned the corm and soaked it a few minutes in a 1/4 cup bleach in 3 gal of water then rinsed and replanted elsewhere to see if that fixes it. It is still too early to know. I already tried a groundsoak with antifungals on the VC, but it has not seemed to help. It is still early, though. It seems to me that SOMEONE on here has seen this problem somewhere before and have an answer at least of what it is. Please help.
VC...


Here is the pic of the PC with the black stuff on the corm and root die off...The VC likely has the same issue.

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Varieties I supposedly bought: Manzano, Cavendish, Blue Java, Sweetheart, and Gros Michel.
What it seems I actually have: Brazilian, Cavendish, Namwah, Dwarf Red, Gros Michel, Pisang Ceylon, Veinte Cohol and SH 3640, and American Goldfinger. FHIA 1, Paggi and FHIA 17... Always room for one more.
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Old 09-04-2017, 08:22 PM   #2 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: What is wrong here? Yellowing leaves and midribs

Check the soil PH. The corm with the 'black stuff', wash it with some bleach water to kill any fungus on the corm & roots.
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Old 09-04-2017, 11:10 PM   #3 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: What is wrong here? Yellowing leaves and midribs

I know the Ph is pretty high. My water has a high Ph, but I don't know the exact number... The soil test said 8 or a bit over, but it's a few years old and a color chart, so it's hard to know an exact number. I used a pool strip for my water, and they only go so high. I put down some pine needles and manure but that only helped a little bit.
I dug one and washed off all the dirt, picked off the black stuff, soaked it in bleach for 5 minutes and replanted in a different area, but I am limited on other places. I am waiting to see if that fixes it. Some sulfur may be in order.... I don't know. I don't want to make things worse by doing the wrong thing. That is why I posted here... I can't be the only person on this board of over 27,000 people who have this issue. Someone HAS to know something I can do or at least what it is.
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Varieties I supposedly bought: Manzano, Cavendish, Blue Java, Sweetheart, and Gros Michel.
What it seems I actually have: Brazilian, Cavendish, Namwah, Dwarf Red, Gros Michel, Pisang Ceylon, Veinte Cohol and SH 3640, and American Goldfinger. FHIA 1, Paggi and FHIA 17... Always room for one more.
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Old 09-05-2017, 10:49 AM   #4 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: What is wrong here? Yellowing leaves and midribs

first question; what is your ground water level?

2nd question; do you have a water softener on your well. specifically one that uses salt?
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Old 09-05-2017, 11:15 AM   #5 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: What is wrong here? Yellowing leaves and midribs

Ground water here is several feel below grade as our yard is elevated.
Yes, I have a salt water softener. Here's the rub... It does this worse when I bypass the softener. Makes no sense.
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Varieties I supposedly bought: Manzano, Cavendish, Blue Java, Sweetheart, and Gros Michel.
What it seems I actually have: Brazilian, Cavendish, Namwah, Dwarf Red, Gros Michel, Pisang Ceylon, Veinte Cohol and SH 3640, and American Goldfinger. FHIA 1, Paggi and FHIA 17... Always room for one more.
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Old 09-05-2017, 11:27 AM   #6 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: What is wrong here? Yellowing leaves and midribs

do you know how deep your well is? pvc or steel?
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Old 09-05-2017, 11:40 AM   #7 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: What is wrong here? Yellowing leaves and midribs

I do not know the depth, but not likely over 30 feet here in Florida as that is unnecessary. Water here in my yard is probably 4-6 feet down. It's odd, this happens when there has been rain recently, but not in winter when it hasn't rained for a few weeks. I have seen it before, and suspected it was my water, but this time, after almost 3 months of only rain watering them, the change was clear and immediate.
PVC from the well to the house, I think steel going down.
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Varieties I supposedly bought: Manzano, Cavendish, Blue Java, Sweetheart, and Gros Michel.
What it seems I actually have: Brazilian, Cavendish, Namwah, Dwarf Red, Gros Michel, Pisang Ceylon, Veinte Cohol and SH 3640, and American Goldfinger. FHIA 1, Paggi and FHIA 17... Always room for one more.
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Old 09-05-2017, 11:47 AM   #8 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: What is wrong here? Yellowing leaves and midribs

believe I might know what is happening. but let me ask some more questions.

its the pipe going down I am looking at right now. is it about the same diameter as a beer can? I need to know if it is steel. where does your water softener dump when you clean it? close to the well or a long ways?
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Old 09-05-2017, 01:23 PM   #9 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: What is wrong here? Yellowing leaves and midribs

OK, let's see what info Beam has about the well & water softener.

Review this for a refresher about soil Ph and high Ph, if you need to. Solutions to Soil Problems: High pH - eXtension

It is likely you will need to grow bananas in a raised bed with neutral compost and soil. You stated the well water has a high Ph, then you must be in an area of Florida that has a high concentration of carbonates & lime in the soil & water. This will make it very difficult to lower the Ph of the natural soil in you yard. Use sulfur around the existing plants to help them to recover (???).

OH ... buy a $15 Ph meter for quick readings and check the water before watering the nana plants. I think you will find the Ph goes up after large rains.
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Old 09-05-2017, 01:40 PM   #10 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: What is wrong here? Yellowing leaves and midribs

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Originally Posted by sputinc7 View Post
I do not know the depth, but not likely over 30 feet here in Florida as that is unnecessary. Water here in my yard is probably 4-6 feet down. It's odd, this happens when there has been rain recently, but not in winter when it hasn't rained for a few weeks. I have seen it before, and suspected it was my water, but this time, after almost 3 months of only rain watering them, the change was clear and immediate.
PVC from the well to the house, I think steel going down.
If that is true, then you need a new well. Shallow wells like this is pumping surface water, very likely drainage from septic tanks (yours and the neighbors) and your own pee. Deep wells go though a layer of clay or bed-rock to cleaner water underneath separating the surface water from being pumped.
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Old 09-05-2017, 06:54 PM   #11 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: What is wrong here? Yellowing leaves and midribs

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Originally Posted by sputinc7 View Post
I do not know the depth, but not likely over 30 feet here in Florida as that is unnecessary. Water here in my yard is probably 4-6 feet down. It's odd, this happens when there has been rain recently, but not in winter when it hasn't rained for a few weeks. I have seen it before, and suspected it was my water, but this time, after almost 3 months of only rain watering them, the change was clear and immediate.
PVC from the well to the house, I think steel going down.
haven't heard from you for a while....DO NOT drink the water! or cook with it! bottled water. get gallon jugs of bottled water for cooking. probably ok for showering. GET WITH ME.
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Old 09-05-2017, 07:15 PM   #12 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: What is wrong here? Yellowing leaves and midribs

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If that is true, then you need a new well. Shallow wells like this is pumping surface water, very likely drainage from septic tanks (yours and the neighbors) and your own pee. Deep wells go though a layer of clay or bed-rock to cleaner water underneath separating the surface water from being pumped.
he does not have a shallow well. he has a hole in his casing. probably caused by 2 things, tannic acid that's in the soil and the salt from his water softener going into the ground waters near the well. the salt can migrate to his well just like his septic will thru the ground water. if he has steel casing one or both will cause his casing to get a hole in it. the reason he might be thinking his well might be 30 ft deep is because of his drop pipe. his well is artesian, probably not in lime stone but in florida and Georgia only the ground water wells aren't artesian. you only have to put your suction pipe 30 ft into the well on a well that has the ability to flow if it has a water level of 20 ft or less. and if it is not getting water from the ground water it is artesian here. basically you do not suck water from the bottom of an artesian well but lower the water level in the well to make it flow. the cloudiness of his water is one sign he has a hole in his casing.

I WAS TRYING TO GET ALL THE FACTS BEFORE I SAID ANYTHING. there is more that I need to know before I have to tell him to contact his local well driller. I was not trying to alarm him before I new for certain.

bug you kind of hit it on the head there ed. but wells are like bananas can be difficult to say the least. could be one thing or another. got to go thru the paces to find out what exactly is wrong. but like bananas there are only few people who know. and whole lot of people who think they know.! but in the case of wells are actually almost always wrong.

I think he might be hurting or killing his bananas from the ground water going into his well with salt from his water softener after cleaning it out. the salt is contaminating his ground water just like his septic system all ready is. if he has a septic system and not on city.

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Old 09-05-2017, 08:43 PM   #13 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: What is wrong here? Yellowing leaves and midribs

Then the well is deeper than 30 ft as it should be. Remember Nicolas stated his new well was 2 ft of sand and 30 ft of muck at the top. So if Sputinc7's well was only 30 ft as he stated, then he had to be pumping ground/surface water. I was just going by the well depth he stated.

My father-in-law was an old time Well Driller (all his life) and I'm a civil engineer. so I know a little bit about water drill drilling. ... My well (when dad had it drilled, 1988/89 (by my father-in-law) was drilled to more than 300 ft; the casing was set to bed rock at about 200 ft; the pump was put down to 180 ft. ... My brother just put in a new well (4 1/2 inch) about 400 ft away from mine. I don't have the final depth but I know his is more than 300 ft deep. Our wells are into the Floridian aquifer and pumping water being bottled & sold by a local company as spring water. Our wells tend to be typical for our area.

Anyway, hopefully Sputinc's well is big enough to be relined and cleaned out.
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Old 09-05-2017, 11:00 PM   #14 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: What is wrong here? Yellowing leaves and midribs

I will have to measure to be sure, but I think it's 1 or 1-1/4 in steel pipe. I don't KNOW the depth, but am simply guessing they wouldn't spend more on drilling than necessary, thus the 30 foot thinking. Plus the idea that surface rains can make any difference at all.
My septic is about 100-150 feet away from the well and the softener recycles over 100 feet away. We have a softener, aerator, filter and even a UV light on it. The odd thing is like I said, when I bypass the softener it seems to make the matter worse.
I think you guys are on the right track. I hope this additional info helps.
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https://sputinc7.wixsite.com/covwc

Varieties I supposedly bought: Manzano, Cavendish, Blue Java, Sweetheart, and Gros Michel.
What it seems I actually have: Brazilian, Cavendish, Namwah, Dwarf Red, Gros Michel, Pisang Ceylon, Veinte Cohol and SH 3640, and American Goldfinger. FHIA 1, Paggi and FHIA 17... Always room for one more.
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Old 09-06-2017, 05:08 AM   #15 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: What is wrong here? Yellowing leaves and midribs

get a clean 5 gal. bucket. clean it so there is no dirt, nothing in it. put a hose on the garden valve that is on your pump. you do not want to get water thru your water softener. run the well to clean out your garden hose. then with the water still running fill up the bucket. taste the water but do not drink. then look for clarity and sand in the bottom of the bucket.

a pic of your well would help.

Last edited by beam2050 : 09-06-2017 at 05:38 AM.
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Old 09-06-2017, 06:57 AM   #16 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: What is wrong here? Yellowing leaves and midribs

Quote:
Originally Posted by sputinc7 View Post
I will have to measure to be sure, but I think it's 1 or 1-1/4 in steel pipe. I don't KNOW the depth, but am simply guessing they wouldn't spend more on drilling than necessary, thus the 30 foot thinking. Plus the idea that surface rains can make any difference at all.
...
Since about late 1960's, early 70's (???) professional well drillers are required to a depth & drill though an impervious layer (clay -rock) for clean water below. It is doubtful that surface waters (shallow wells) would past testing for household use & drinking without further treatment. ... Before this, many home owners dug/drilled wells were 'shallow' type just into the water table below the surface. ... The 1 or 1 1/4 " is the suction/water pipe and should go into another bigger pipe (casing:2 1/2, 3 or 4" ?). Is your pump at the top of the well? ... A picture of the well would help.

Unless you actually have a 'shallow well' drilled by pushing a pipe (1 or 1 1/4") with a screen in the bottom into the ground. A 'well point' type and easily done in soft ground.

Beam is the Florida well expert, I just know what you are describing is not good.
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Old 09-06-2017, 08:27 AM   #17 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: What is wrong here? Yellowing leaves and midribs

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Since about late 1960's, early 70's (???) professional well drillers are required to a depth & drill though an impervious layer (clay -rock) for clean water below. It is doubtful that surface waters (shallow wells) would past testing for household use & drinking without further treatment. ... Before this, many home owners dug/drilled wells were 'shallow' type just into the water table below the surface. ... The 1 or 1 1/4 " is the suction/water pipe and should go into another bigger pipe (casing:2 1/2, 3 or 4" ?). Is your pump at the top of the well? ... A picture of the well would help.

Unless you actually have a 'shallow well' drilled by pushing a pipe (1 or 1 1/4") with a screen in the bottom into the ground. A 'well point' type and easily done in soft ground.

Beam is the Florida well expert, I just know what you are describing is not good.
I have seen a couple of 1 1/4 galv. wells. they were homemade in down town Jacksonville. well drilling companies never used it because the drill rods are to flimsy. 2 inch use to be more common but pretty much every body these days goes pvc. might still be one or 2 antique rigs hammering 2 inch galv. into the ground.
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Old 09-06-2017, 12:09 PM   #18 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: What is wrong here? Yellowing leaves and midribs

Here is a pic of the well. It says it was put in in Aug of 1996.



I never paid much attention to it before, but it is a 2 in galv pipe going down in the ground with 1-1/4 in PVC heading to the house..

Is there a place that tests water that doesn't cost a fortune to do it?
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Varieties I supposedly bought: Manzano, Cavendish, Blue Java, Sweetheart, and Gros Michel.
What it seems I actually have: Brazilian, Cavendish, Namwah, Dwarf Red, Gros Michel, Pisang Ceylon, Veinte Cohol and SH 3640, and American Goldfinger. FHIA 1, Paggi and FHIA 17... Always room for one more.
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Old 09-06-2017, 01:27 PM   #19 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: What is wrong here? Yellowing leaves and midribs

Call your country health Dept, they can tell you where to get testing or have it done for minimal charge.

Where is the water tank located and is there a pump with it? ... From the picture, I would assume there is a 2" submersible water pump in the well. But,,, I do not see electrical wires going down???. ... Pull back the grass and dig down a few inches to check for a bigger well casing that might be hidden.
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Old 09-06-2017, 01:57 PM   #20 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: What is wrong here? Yellowing leaves and midribs

no he has an above ground pump. that is a drop pipe assembly possibly with a foot valve. I doesn't take many years for 2 inch galv to rust out. average life of 2 inch galv. is about 18 years, if there is an average. we some areas they last only 2 years an some other areas they last 6 before they get a hole in the casing. I would do the test I told you to do before I did anything. that is what someone from a well drilling co. would do first.

the more I look at your pic. that looks like 1 1/2 pipe coming out of the ground. can you dig around it about 2 ft.? your well might be below grade or off someplace else. sure is some nice shiny pipe.

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