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-   -   Is this true and typical BSV? (http://www.bananas.org/f310/true-typical-bsv-14121.html)

Kostas 11-01-2011 06:38 PM

Re: Is this true and typical BSV?
 
Thank for the link Tony!

I did find this one but the photos are nothing like our plants. The leaf symptoms are much more severe. I was just thinking our may be expressing it more mildly perhaps?

venturabananas 11-02-2011 12:07 PM

Re: Is this true and typical BSV?
 
Yes, it sounds like expression of the BSV symptoms is quite variable and more extreme in stressful conditions. My cool, non-tropical conditions could certainly be considered stressful. One of my Mysore plants is putting out a leaf that is really streaked and chlorotic, more like the symptoms shown in some of the photos in that guide to BSV.

Kostas, I can't remember where I found the information, but I am pretty certain that only noticeable difference between Pisang Ceylon and Mysore is that PC is BSV free. Thus, I personally see no point in growing both. I am going to remove the streaky Mysore I have.

Tony, you think your Mysore was unaffected by BSV, but how would you know given that expression of the symptoms can be so variable? For example, one study mentioned something 9% reduction in fruit yield in plants with BSV but mild symptoms, and 80% for the same cultivar when it has extreme symptoms. Your Mysore has only mild symptoms. Maybe its bananas would have been 9% bigger if it didn't have BSV, or 20%, or who knows? I've certainly seen locally grown Mysore types that had bigger fruits than yours did and that might be because of the BSV it has.

Kostas, I skimmed those papers in the link Tony provided, too, and I come to different conclusion that you. Nowhere does it say that Mysore with BSV is unaffected. It just says that Mysore is less strongly affected than some other cultivars.

Given that Citrus Mealybug, which spreads the virus among banana plants, is found in California (and probably my neighborhood), I'm going to get rid of my plants with BSV so the bugs don't spread BSV to my other bananas.

sunfish 11-02-2011 12:10 PM

Re: Is this true and typical BSV?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by venturabananas (Post 177463)
Yes, it sounds like expression of the BSV symptoms is quite variable and more extreme in stressful conditions. My cool, non-tropical conditions could certainly be considered stressful. One of my Mysore plants is putting out a leaf that is really streaked and chlorotic, more like the symptoms shown in some of the photos in that guide to BSV.

Kostas, I can't remember where I found the information, but I am pretty certain that only noticeable difference between Pisang Ceylon and Mysore is that PC is BSV free. Thus, I personally see no point in growing both. I am going to remove the streaky Mysore I have.

Tony, you think your Mysore was unaffected by BSV, but how would you know given that expression of the symptoms can be so variable? For example, one study mentioned something 9% reduction in fruit yield in plants with BSV but mild symptoms, and 80% for the same cultivar when it has extreme symptoms. Your Mysore has only mild symptoms. Maybe its bananas would have been 9% bigger if it didn't have BSV, or 20%, or who knows? I've certainly seen locally grown Mysore types that had bigger fruits than yours did and that might be because of the BSV it has.

Kostas, I skimmed those papers in the link Tony provided, too, and I come to different conclusion that you. Nowhere does it say that Mysore with BSV is unaffected. It just says that Mysore is less strongly affected than some other cultivars.

Given that Citrus Mealybug, which spreads the virus among banana plants, is found in California (and probably my neighborhood), I'm going to get rid of my plants with BSV so the bugs don't spread BSV to my other bananas.

Could be or a hundred other things.

venturabananas 11-02-2011 12:12 PM

Re: Is this true and typical BSV?
 
Yep, I completely agree.

sunfish 11-02-2011 12:24 PM

Re: Is this true and typical BSV?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by venturabananas (Post 177465)
Yep, I completely agree.

The fact that it went through a pretty cold winter,I don't fertilizer,don't water every day,removed 6 pups from it after it bloomed etc. I thought I read Goldfinger is one that gets bsv ,it's one of the most hardy I grow.

Kostas 11-02-2011 12:33 PM

Re: Is this true and typical BSV?
 
Thank you very much for your replies!

What i meant was that when well grown,Mysore develops only sporadic and mild symptoms and just 9% yield loss which mostly go unnoticed so we cant know without an expert opinion what we are seeing in our Mysore. If yours developed similar severe chlorotic streaks,then you can be certain i guess. Mine only has mild ones but it seems possible to be BSV. I guess i will also have to get rid of it and find a healthy replacement.
Even if Mysore and Pisang Ceylon taste the same,if they look a little different as plants,i would like both! After all,one more good tasting banana cant hurt!:bananas_b

As Tony says,it could be another thing as well. Gabe,Mr. Nelson,any help please?

Thank you very much in advance!

venturabananas 11-02-2011 12:36 PM

Re: Is this true and typical BSV?
 
I think Goldfinger can get BSV if a mealybug transfers the virus from your Mysore to it. The problem with Mysore is that most of them that you would buy or get from a friend are already infected with BSV, but most or all Goldfinger are uninfected.

I think the only way you could figure out if BSV affects fruit production of your Mysore is to grow several pairs of it and Pisang Ceylon in various places around your yard. If the Pisang Ceylon out produces the Mysore on average, then you have your answer. But I know that neither of us would do that experiment because we don't have the space or enough interest to do it.

venturabananas 11-02-2011 12:37 PM

Re: Is this true and typical BSV?
 
Kostas, I'm almost positive that Pisang Ceylon and Mysore look and taste identical. If you find a Mysore without BSV, most likely it is actually Pisang Ceylon!

Gabe15 11-02-2011 01:15 PM

Re: Is this true and typical BSV?
 
'Goldfinger' has BSV in it's genome because it is an AAAB. Every single B genome tested so far has BSV sequences, even wild M. balbisiana. Every single edible banana with a B genome also has it. There are even some integrated virus sequences in M. acuminata. It is more a matter of if it is expressed or not.

Kostas 11-02-2011 06:24 PM

Re: Is this true and typical BSV?
 
Gabe,

Do you think mine is expressing BSV or is it something cultural that it has? If a banana does express BSV for some reason,can it overcome the virus and get rid of all virions and suppress the virus to just having it integrated and fully dormant in its genome,in the state any healthy banana has it? Is this likely to happen with mine or would it be preferable for me to get rid of it and search for one not expressing BSV?

Thank you very much in advance! :)

sandy0225 11-03-2011 07:50 AM

Re: Is this true and typical BSV?
 
I'd keep it and grow it out, it hasn't really been even determined for sure that it is BSV. For precaution though, if you separate any pups off of it or do any cutting or digging on it with a knife or scissors, shovel,etc, sterilize the knife or instrument used in alcohol before using it to separate or cut or dig another banana plant you own. BSV isn't going to spread to other plants unless you have a carrier such as thrips or mealybugs present as far as I know. It's kind of like the hosta virus and it is spread by propagation. Most bad viruses are spread by thrips in greenhouse culture, I'm surprized that they weren't mentioned in the article link.
It looks mostly unhappy in it's current conditions to me, both of those bananas, have you thought about digging them and putting them into pots with really good potting soil to see what happens?

Kostas 11-03-2011 08:38 AM

Re: Is this true and typical BSV?
 
Thank you very much for your reply Sandy!

BSV supposedly only spreads by mealybugs and specific mealy bug species to be exact so mechanical transfer is not possible(which is good) but still,i cant know i dont have those mealybugs around and since overwintering means cramming my bananas to my basement,if there are mealybugs,it could easily spread to my other bananas. I have never *seen* mealybugs on my bananas but i cant vouch there arent any lurking somewhere.
I am not getting rid of my Mysore yet,i will only do that if completely sure thats what it has or if we cannot settle on what this is. I wont get this one to my basement till its settled for good. My Mysore is potted in good quality soil and isnt that unhappy,nowhere near my Ice Cream which was screaming for water(i didnt know how bad it craved for it till i checked from close....). My Mysore is well watered but the weather we are having is cool and not the best for potted bananas. It could be a deficiency or something i guess but i dont know.The reason i first mention a virus is because if its just a deficiency,i dont care,i can fix that, but if its virus,i do care a lot as it must go unless it can heal itself.

Gabe15 11-23-2011 12:25 PM

Re: Is this true and typical BSV?
 
Here are some photos of my 'Mysore' displaying classic BSV symptoms.



venturabananas 11-23-2011 12:51 PM

Re: Is this true and typical BSV?
 
Thanks Gabe. I have two that look just like that.

Richard 11-23-2011 06:49 PM

Re: Is this true and typical BSV?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by venturabananas (Post 180141)
Thanks Gabe. I have two that look just like that.

Check the leaves for zinc and copper deficiency. If deficient, then go after the BSV with agricultural dosages of copper and zinc. Where you and I are located, uptake this time of year will be problematic -- so maybe just a foliar of Liqui-Cop (or Kocide if you have a license) now around sunrise on a non-rain day, then every 90 days with it and a zinc chelate or systemic such as zinc phosphite.

Now for those of you who are concerned about the toxicity of zinc and copper:
1. copper ammonium and zinc chelate are approved for organic farming provided agricultural dosages are used.
2. compare the total amount of zinc and copper you would consume on an annual basis from taking a daily multi-vitamin with 4 agricultural applications of zinc and copper to your banana plants.

momoese 11-23-2011 06:53 PM

Re: Is this true and typical BSV?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by venturabananas (Post 180141)
Thanks Gabe. I have two that look just like that.

Where did they come from?

sunfish 11-23-2011 06:58 PM

Re: Is this true and typical BSV?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by momoese (Post 180195)
Where did they come from?

At least one is from me

Gabe15 11-23-2011 07:59 PM

Re: Is this true and typical BSV?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard (Post 180193)
Check the leaves for zinc and copper deficiency. If deficient, then go after the BSV with agricultural dosages of copper and zinc.

BSV is an integrated virus, it is part of the banana DNA and cannot be cured by applying possibly deficient nutrients.

venturabananas 11-23-2011 08:30 PM

Re: Is this true and typical BSV?
 
Actually, both bananas I have that have BSV symptoms came from Tony, but as Gabe says, in Mysore subgroup bananas the virus DNA is integrated into the banana's DNA, so it's not like Tony is spreading BSV -- the parent plants had the viral DNA integrated into their DNA before Tony ever got his pups. One plant I obtained under the name "Mysore" the other as "Mona Lisa" but it was clearly misidentified and is also a Mysore. I got the "Mona Lisa" from Tony, but he got it from someone who got theirs from Jon. If you look at Jon's photos of the leaves of the parent plant, you can see the symptoms of BSV (and the purple midrib and leaf undersides indicative of it being a Mysore).

Streaks:
http://webebananas.com/bpix/BP946-18.jpg

Purple leaf underside:
http://webebananas.com/bpix/BP943-67.jpg

It is my understanding that stressful conditions can cause bananas with BSV to exhibit the symptoms of the virus, whereas under optimal conditions, they may exhibit few or no symptoms. Tony's plants exhibited fewer symptoms than mine. Goes to show who treats their bananas better!

For clarification, I am pretty sure that there are non-integrated forms of BSV. In these cases, the viral DNA has not been inserted into the banana DNA. The non-integrated form can be spread my mealybugs (just like aphids can spread the BBT virus). But integrated forms of BSV can't be spread. I think that's the deal.

(BTW, the Pisang Klotek I got from Mitchel has never exhibited symptoms of BSV, even though it is a Mysore group banana.)

sunfish 11-23-2011 08:33 PM

Re: Is this true and typical BSV?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by venturabananas (Post 180249)
Actually, both bananas I have that have BSV symptoms came from Tony, but as Gabe says, in Mysore subgroup bananas the virus DNA is integrated into the banana's DNA, so it's not like Tony is spreading BSV -- the parent plants had the viral DNA integrated into their DNA before Tony ever got his pups. One plant I obtained under the name "Mysore" the other as "Mona Lisa" but it was clearly misidentified and is also a Mysore. I got the "Mona Lisa" from Tony, but he got it from someone who got theirs from Jon. If you look at Jon's photos of the leaves of the parent plant, you can see the symptoms of BSV (and the purple midrib and leaf undersides indicative of it being a Mysore).

Streaks:
http://webebananas.com/bpix/BP946-18.jpg

Purple leaf underside:
http://webebananas.com/bpix/BP943-67.jpg

It is my understanding that stressful conditions can cause bananas with BSV to exhibit the symptoms of the virus, whereas under optimal conditions, they may exhibit few or no symptoms. Tony's plants exhibited fewer symptoms than mine. Goes to show who treats their bananas better!

For clarification, I am pretty sure that there are non-integrated forms of BSV. In these cases, the viral DNA has not been inserted into the banana DNA. The non-integrated form can be spread my mealybugs (just like aphids can spread the BBT virus). But integrated forms of BSV can't be spread. I think that's the deal.

(BTW, the Pisang Klotek I got from Mitchel has never exhibited symptoms of BSV, even though it is a Mysore group banana.)

Check the pix of mysore in the Wiki


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