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-   -   Grub worms...Friend or foe? (http://www.bananas.org/f310/grub-worms-friend-foe-7835.html)

Ron Alexander 05-03-2009 08:19 PM

Grub worms...Friend or foe?
 
While building my 12 x100 flower bed I had 4 front end loader buckets of my own home made manufactured horse manure compost placed in it. I noticed when spreading and tilling it in that it had several of the white fat but short grub worms in it. I know that earth worms are a good thing to have but what about these grub worms? They advertise poisons that kill grub worms for lawns. Do I need this or will they live in harmony with my plants/trees?

sunfish 05-03-2009 08:56 PM

Re: Grub worms...Friend or foe?
 
I have not had a problem with grubs munching my plants, but the skunks have uprooted plants to get to them.

ron_mcb 05-03-2009 09:06 PM

Re: Grub worms...Friend or foe?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Alexander (Post 73826)
While building my 12 x100 flower bed I had 4 front end loader buckets of my own home made manufactured horse manure compost placed in it. I noticed when spreading and tilling it in that it had several of the white fat but short grub worms in it. I know that earth worms are a good thing to have but what about these grub worms? They advertise poisons that kill grub worms for lawns. Do I need this or will they live in harmony with my plants/trees?

kill as many grubs as you can with some type of granular treatment. you can sprinkle it like you would fetilizer or install it vertically like i do (poke a small hole in the soil around your plant and fill the hole).the grubs are not worms.they are larvae for beatles.the larvae eat tender plant roots..if you cant dig a hole without finding a grub no matter where you dig then you have a problem..if you have a lot of moles in your yard digging holes and you wonder why??..the grubs are a mole's favorite food if you have been trying to get rid of moles there is your solution... get rid of the grubs....kill em kill em all!!! they are not your friends!!

Ron Alexander 05-03-2009 09:28 PM

Re: Grub worms...Friend or foe?
 
Thanks for the advice. I will visit w-mart tomorrow. GRUBS BE DAMNED!!!

Caloosamusa 05-03-2009 10:54 PM

Re: Grub worms...Friend or foe?
 
Just keep in mind that a percentage of the toxin to kill them will get into the plant, then into you if eaten, some will get into the groundwater, and some will get into creatures eating the grubs. Some of it will continue to toxify the soil for variable periods of time.

Whatever you use, do so sparingly.

I've had corm-borers attach my FHIA 23. I grow cultivars that resist corm borers and nematodes. :2239:

ron_mcb 05-03-2009 11:34 PM

Re: Grub worms...Friend or foe?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Caloosamusa (Post 73843)
Just keep in mind that a percentage of the toxin to kill them will get into the plant, then into you if eaten, some will get into the groundwater, and some will get into creatures eating the grubs. Some of it will continue to toxify the soil for variable periods of time.

Whatever you use, do so sparingly.

I've had corm-borers attach my FHIA 23. I grow cultivars that resist corm borers and nematodes. :2239:

ok i have to adress the poison phobes....yeah im sure if you follow the recomendations on the package he should be fine..yeah i recommended granular..because its slow release..you dont have to reapply it so often..he is trying to reduce the number of pest around his ornamentals..he is using that stuff around his palm and basjoo oasis.i dont think he mentioned edible plants...if anyone is treating edible plants then use something like liquid form that can be washed easily away after a certain amount of time...if you think that store bought yard pesticides are bad,you should know some of the pesticides used for commercial bananas,and other store bought produce ..direct contact with it in its pure form ...can make you sterile.

Lagniappe 05-03-2009 11:45 PM

Re: Grub worms...Friend or foe?
 
A more effective and sustainable method...imo...is the application of predatory nematodes or Milky spore.
The nematodes are supposed to control a broad range of pests.

ron_mcb 05-04-2009 12:04 AM

Re: Grub worms...Friend or foe?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lagniappe (Post 73849)
A more effective and sustainable method...imo...is the application of predatory nematodes or Milky spore.
The nematodes are supposed to control a broad range of pests.

yeah good idea..i cut actually cut down on pesticides when wolf spiders came to my plot last year.they ate most of the young preying mantis that i bought,and hatched (which wasnt supposed to happen). i let the spiders have a ball anyways ..if that one guy has grubs so bad the skunks are comming and diggin..thats the only one of natures helpers that he has it seems,yeah it sucks he can introduce another natural predatory animal or can use the grub killer for instant gratifcation.

Caloosamusa 05-04-2009 08:32 AM

Re: Grub worms...Friend or foe?
 
The cumulative effect of toxins should also be considered, as Lagniappe correctly stated there are more effective sustainable methods to consider. I suggest resistant cultivars and biological controls, they sustainable and do not accumulate toxins in the environment for everyone and everything in contact to partake of. :2239:

ron_mcb 05-04-2009 11:22 AM

Re: Grub worms...Friend or foe?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Caloosamusa (Post 73863)
The cumulative effect of toxins should also be considered, as Lagniappe correctly stated there are more effective sustainable methods to consider. I suggest resistant cultivars and biological controls, they sustainable and do not accumulate toxins in the environment for everyone and everything in contact to partake of. :2239:

yeah but what im saying is you guys have a good idea..natural is good but for an immediate response to a serious problem pull out the heavy artillery. when i first moved into my home 3 years ago i had a real bad beatle problem..i had to cut down a few tree and poision like you wouldnt believe.soon after i appled the poison grubs rose to the surface and covered the ground..i figured i had em bad but not that bad.it was like a horror movie....i have a well so i drank bottled water for a month to be on the safe side.i dont think the poison affected anything but the grubs truthfully because there were so many birds eating the grubs and i never saw one dead bird..now i dont have a beatle problem..i had to do something right then and there.thats what i needed instant gratification.if had waited i would have no trees and probably no grass either. if the natural predators are willing to step up then i let them handle their business like with the wolf spiders.they actually ate the natural predators that i introduced to handle the problem along with the pest i was trying to kill.

Caloosamusa 05-04-2009 02:36 PM

Re: Grub worms...Friend or foe?
 
Instant gradification, longterm retention, nearterm future need for another instant gradification with additional long term retention, in greater concentration. When the grubs return again, another instant gradification with additional longterm retention at a still greater concentration. It is a never ending cycle.

It is less expensive and more ecologically responsible to maintain a healthy ecosystem with low levels of predators.

But wait, that is not what we learn from the salesman at the garden center. We should always bring out the "Big guns." The more toxic the solution the better! NOT!!!!

Only in our society can one get a high school diploma with such a high standard of ignorance that is carried like a badge of honor!:2239:

ron_mcb 05-04-2009 04:44 PM

Re: Grub worms...Friend or foe?
 
well mr or mrs natural fibers i can see where you are comming from but,i guess you have no idea where im comming from do you??? the grubs were taking over the property when i moved there..immediate action needed to be taken.now that everything is under controll i can ad all the natural predators that there is to keep balance.i havent had to apply any grub controll in 3 years..you are implying that i am a masked man with a cape who is constantly dumping canisters of toxins into our water supply.
you probably are a bigger threat to the environment than two of me in the long run anyway.

since when is protecting your investment void of wisdom??

now question natural fibers...if today you discovered your home was being destroyed by termites what would you do?? you would find a natural predator and hope they wiped out the infestation??? or would you take immediate action and call an exterminator to spray poisons?? surely im not as educated as you,but i hope your answer is ordering a flock of wood peckers.

that guy has already purchased the grub poison anyways.but please sir once your grubs are under controll get some predatory nematodes....you can order them online..then wait for them to arrive then apply them then wait for them to attack their host before you get rid of them..its the green way to do it.

Lagniappe 05-04-2009 05:33 PM

Re: Grub worms...Friend or foe?
 
Predatory nematodes kill termites as well.

ron_mcb 05-04-2009 05:47 PM

Re: Grub worms...Friend or foe?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lagniappe (Post 73926)
Predatory nematodes kill termites as well.

yeah im asking if you had a termite infestation...infestation..in your home would you trust the nematodes or would you trust the orkin man with your investment???

Caloosamusa 05-04-2009 08:20 PM

Re: Grub worms...Friend or foe?
 
Planning ahead and thinking preventatively is difficult. Planting resistant cultivars would preclude the use of pesticides. I've had corm borers attack some of my plants. That why I don't grow those types anymore. Thinking ahead is the key. There are many more effective preventative measures that are less expensive than an exterminator, or the pesticides.

In the environments where my houses are, I use materials termites do not eat, like steel and concrete, and earth friendly materials. Living sustainably requires some forethought. Think before you throw away money and you will have much more of it! :2239:

ron_mcb 05-04-2009 08:53 PM

Re: Grub worms...Friend or foe?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Caloosamusa (Post 73945)
Planning ahead and thinking preventatively is difficult. Planting resistant cultivars would preclude the use of pesticides. I've had corm borers attack some of my plants. That why I don't grow those types anymore. Thinking ahead is the key. There are many more effective preventative measures that are less expensive than an exterminator, or the pesticides.

In the environments where my houses are, I use materials termites do not eat, like steel and concrete, and earth friendly materials. Living sustainably requires some forethought. Think before you throw away money and you will have much more of it! :2239:

you had the foresight to see that conventional wood built homes attract termites? termites eating your home would require you to murder them,and add poisons into the environment as well.. also you were so in touch with nature you avoided wood to stop the senseless murder of trees?? you avoided that material to avoid a clash between you and nature?? so you home/homes have not even one peice of wood for termites to eat???
so you are telling me you live in a commercial grade steel building with concrete floors?? natural fibers thats spectacular!! the e.p.a. should even use you as a spokes person.your existence has no negative impact on the world whatsoever.

Lagniappe 05-04-2009 11:15 PM

Re: Grub worms...Friend or foe?
 
It's not about that. I've worked in the pest control industry for years. I even bought a new termite control system last year. Still, I wouldn't spray that around MY yard. If I get termites in my home,it'll be the nematodes, diatomaceous earth, and (most importantly) Disodium octaborate tetrahydrate, that will be used as a control. The latter is a derivative of boric acid and very safe.
It can be sprayed on wood to control the fungi responsible for breaking it down (rot) and insect pests such as termites and beetles. However,this material is not sprayed on the soil.
Todays termiticides are actually manufactured to perform like an organic control in that they work very slowly. In doing this, the drones bring the material back to the queen and the reproductive cycle of the colony is ended.

I don't employ these,or any other organic 'practices' to be kind to the Earth or to make it safe for you and future generations, I do it because I have begun to understand the soil food web and I know that I now have none of the problems with my plants that I had when I used pesticides, fungicides, and fertilizers.
Nobody said it was the only way to go, nobody said it would save the Earth, all that was said was that these methods are sustainable. I'm no tree hugger,no environmental activist, no animal rights advocate. I Do , however, know how my plants react to the above mentioned and how they thrive in the organic, life filled, nasty, fungi encrusted, bacteria ridden, funky parcel of bug infested land I've provided.
BTW....There is no wrong way, or right way (though one is toxic and one is safe and sustainable)I just don't have time to spray fungicides, nematicides, foliar feeds, pesticides, or any of the babysitting with the amount of plants I have. If I apply any type of control that may kill of the symbionts that keep my plants on 'auto pilot', I will see a barrage of problems creeping up. I just can't afford that, no one can imo.

ron_mcb 05-05-2009 01:21 PM

Re: Grub worms...Friend or foe?
 
i really believe you. even tho some may say your response was a bit evassive and long. people who say they garden without using any harsh chemicals and run a household without any are totally credible.

just j 05-05-2009 09:14 PM

Re: Grub worms...Friend or foe?
 
get a bag of grub control i put it on my yard every spring u can pick it up anywhere. lowes, HD, it dont hurt no plants and some is mixed with fert.

ron_mcb 05-06-2009 10:46 AM

Re: Grub worms...Friend or foe?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by just j (Post 74074)
get a bag of grub control i put it on my yard every spring u can pick it up anywhere. lowes, HD, it dont hurt no plants and some is mixed with fert.

careful u dont want e.p.a. watch dogs to shove a pistol in your face like they did me for advocating use of this stuff. and i didnt even say i used the stuff every year.:ha:

i just cant see how people are going hog wild over the use of grub killer and then turn around and use commercial fertilizer to grow bananas.commercial fertilizers (i use it)can kill grubs,and benifical worms too..we are all evil to some degree if you think about it...we are changing the environment around us to suit ourselves.


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