Kostas

Hello,

One of my Hua Moa is showing chlorotic patches/streaks on its leafs. It had a little on its first leaf but its showing more chlorotic pattern on its newest leaf. Here are some photos:

First leaf produced after being cut down close to corm for shipping




Second,newest leaf to open








Due to the pattern and the fact that its an AAB cultivar,i am suspecting BSV. Is it really BSV or another virus? Is it a virus at all or just leaf deformity following stress? As you can see,the leaf is deformed where the majority of the chlorotic pattering is,with these veins being shorter than the others(you can see it in the photos if you look at the leaf edge where the most chlorotic patterning is,the edge goes inwards there. Its not due to a drooping leaf,the leaf is mostly flat on all photos.
If it does is BSV,will the banana heal from it by itself and go back to just hosting this virus in its genome? So far,it seems to be the only Hua Moa i have to show this chlorotic patterning but since the others are still early in their growth,i cant be 100% sure the others wont show it.

What would you suggest?

Thank you very much in advance!

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Richard

There are a lot of publications about banana viruses. In most cases, if you feed your plants a complete fertilizer that contains standard amounts of sulfur, copper, zinc, etc. then these diseases are not an issue.

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Kostas

Thank you very much for your reply Richard!

Will it be cured though through these good growing conditions and not appear again? I am worrying because i dont have yearround ideal conditions so the disease would certainly have the chance to take advantage during certain periods. And of course,its not that great to have a diseased plant as it could potentially spread it to healthy ones with the ''help'' of vectors.
I am inclined to think the above pictured incident may actually be disease or maybe mutation(?) as there is a clear patterning and deformity where there is the most chlorotic patterning. It continued in more than 1 leaf so this isnt that good a sign so far but i would certainly appreciate any opinion on this matter! If this plant does prove to be infected with something incurable through easy cultivation practices or a medicine,it would be much better for my other plants if i destroyed it. I have two more of the same variety that so far are not showing any abnormal patterning and so,if the others continue to show healthy growth and this ones proves to be infected with something incurable(and bad),it wouldnt be much problem if i destroyed this one in the interest of keeping the rest of my bananas healthy!

Looking forward to opinions on this one!

Thank you very much in advance!

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sunfish

Hua Moa ?

Pisang Klotek

Kostas

Thank you very much for your reply Tony!

I would say that the first photo shows typical BSV symptoms unfortunately,with chlorosis and necrosis in streaks on the leaf. I would keep it away from the other bananas and look into the subject further for a way to obtain a healthy plant/pup from it. I am no expert on diseases though and it could maybe be a deficiency?

The second photo is close to what i am seeing on my Hua Moa i think. I dont know what it is and really look forward to knowing!

Lets hope our plants are healthy or get well again for good!

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Kostas

The newest leaf of the Hua Moa in question,came out with a similar pattern to the previous. I have two more Hua Moa,a bigger one which just opened a leaf full of small speckles of lighter color and a smaller one which has opened two perfect leafs without any pattern on them and it has never produced any patterned leafs. So is it only the small one that is healthy? Is it a characteristic of the Hua Moa to have patterned leafs like that? Does anyone know what this thing is anyway? The patterns are not getting necrotic and are not full stripes from the rhachis to the edge,as the CMV does. Any ideas? Both three of them are growing in the same soil mix and relatively close together.

Thank you very much in advance!

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sunfish

New open leaf Hua Moa

Nicolas Naranja

I would give it a few sprays with foliar fertilizer and see if the condition continues, there are some foliar products like keyplex that also elicit a plant immunoresponse that might help.

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Kostas

Thank you very much both of you for your replies!

Tony,
Your leaf looks similar to mine. On my medium sized one,i get more of a stripped pattern with some blotches of grey looking(like the gray parts seen in Ae Ae)tissue. I dont get any necrosis on the stripes or blotches,i only get the necrosis that is thought to be typical of a Ca deficiency(the cigar burning on the surface most exposed to sun and then it tears off this tissue as it unfolds,its getting less and less though with each leaf).


Nicolas,
I havent ever fertilized those bananas so it might be a deficiency but i cant find any photos of any element deficiency causing these symptoms on bananas. I think Potassium causes some yellow speckling on palms,followed by necrosis of the speckles in most cases but i cant find a similar picture on the net described as caused by something nor any cases of its appearance and disappearance. The most similar photo was a single of a BSV case but most other photos of BSV infection i see,appear to have necrosis between the leaf veins as well. I have recently added beneficial nematodes with a Chitosan solution which is known to boost plant immune system and boost its capabilities of fighting pathogens. This was applied to all my bananas(and palms) about a month ago so it was going to help it clear this problem,i think it should had done it by now. The new leaf doesnt have any less pattern than the previous one i think but it doesnt have any deformed edges i think in areas where there is the most patterning.


So,i think it would be safe to say this patterning is caused by one of 3 causes:
1st,mineral deficiency
2nd,virus
3rd,mutation(causing some form of variegation)

Is there any way to narrow this down? How easy is it to send a sample for virus indexing somewhere? I cant find any lab here in Europe that offers a virus indexing service for bananas to the public,at least not for less than a 100 samples...I contacted several i could find but none were set for testing banana viruses.
If its not virus or another untreatable pathogen,i guess i dont care too much as it wont harm my other bananas so this is the causative factor i want to rule out the most. And the second is mutation but of lesser importance.

I will be adding granular,organic fertilizer within the week and i will try to add some fish fert as well for more rapid action. I really hope its just a deficiency issue and nothing more serious.

Any and all help and thoughts welcome!

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sunfish

He is another one. CG has been putting out leaves like this for a year.Just recently re-potted it and move it from the greenhouse. Maybe with it's new home it will clear up or maybe I have variegated CG.

Kostas

I see you have quite a few bananas with similar patterning on the leafs. Are they relatively close together? Did you ever see mealy bugs on those bananas? Were they stressed in any manner prior to symptom appearance?
The answers to the above questions actually will still not be any more conclusive unfortunately but would help some when compared all together. The above are ways BSV is transmitted and ways its hidden genome is activated. On the other hand,variegation is also supposed to be caused by some kind of stress or random mistake during cell multiplication in part of the meristem.

I think we really need a banana pathologist's help and expert opinion if we are to find out what this is. A virus indexing would be the ultimate way to rule out virus and if we do a leaf analysis we could also check the chance of a nutrient deficiency causing it. If only i could find a lab able to do the virus indexing...

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sunfish

No mealybugs.could be stress. I water very little. Twice a week and not much water.But it's only three plants out of hundreds

Kostas

No mealybugs here either. The stress on my case could be them being cut and shipped. The smaller one which shows no sign of patterning(yet)was short enough to not be cut back any. I am watering the big ones in small pots every two days to daily while the ones in big pots about 1-2 times a week. The second seem water stressed to me(none of my Hua Moa are in this group and they dont show any patterning).
3 out of hundreds are quite few and i am amazed i got 2 out of 12(or 31 if you count my TCs)and especially 2 out of 3 Hua Moa pups!

Have all yours been showing the patterning consistently,in every leaf and for some time now?


Nicolas,out of all your Hua Moa and bananas in total,do you have any similar case with ours?

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Kostas

Searching the forum for topics discussing similar issues with ours,i came across this one:
Variegated Musa,always crinkle leafs?

The leafs on mine are deformed where there is the most discoloration density so i thought this topic may be of some use. I certainly hope mine outgrow this!

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Kostas

Another similar one:

Variegated or diseased?

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Kostas

Yet another thread with similar questions,unfortunately always ending up unanswered...

Basjoo with white streaked leaves

And here is a thread about Mitchel's Pisang Klotek randomly growing a pup with the same streaks as ours. And the pup of this pup had the same pattern on its leafs as well.

Variegated Pisang Klotek


Reading all these cases so far,its getting clearer that this ''variegation'' is probably not from nutrient deficiency but for either a random mutation taking place,or from the BSV sequence present in the B genome getting activated for some reason. But,reading the thread about Musa basjoo developing these streaks,if it was BSV,it could only be present in these plantlets through infection from another banana or the donor plant multiplicated. However,only 2 of the plantlets supposedly showed these streaks which would not happen i think in the case of a virus. If a virus was present,it would probably infect all plantlets and cause that streaking. So,i am leaning towards it being a random mutation,something i cant verify though without a virus indexing of my pups. Still,if this is a mutation and the pups dont grow out of it nor produce normal pups,that would still be a problem,although a less serious one as the risk of transmission wont exist...


Looking forward to your thoughts,suggestions and personal experiences! I am particularly interested to know if anyone of you had a banana with similar patterning on its leafs,grow out of this or produce fully normal pups.

Thank you very much in advance!

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Kostas

Just one more link of interesting reading. If you look closely and carefully to photos of variegated bananas,even Ae Ae to a lesser degree,you will see that their variegation is formed by shapes similar to identical with the ones seen in our photos,They are all made up of compilations of streaks and speckles. Just look at Musa ''Ta Nee'',variegated Dwarf Namwah,etc and you will see the pattern. Namwah ''pearl'' has exactly the same patterns as well in a reverse variegation though(the light streaks on our plants are of dark green color in this one).
In page 4 of the topic below,varig8 does a nice sum regarding the properties of such plants. Our plants certainly do not qualify as variegated in any significant degree but that seems to be minor variegation most probably instead of virus.

Variegated Dwarf Namwah Pearl

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momoese

I'm going to update that thread.

Kostas

This is total madness,now my ''Tall Red'' threw a variegated(or ''variegated'',who knows?) leaf.......At least its not streaked like my Hua Moa and doesnt have any deformation,its two,parallel to the leaf veins, stripes of much lighter colored tissue that are spreading and joined towards the edge of the leaf.

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Nicolas Naranja

25-30 out of 360, if you have what I have it is a deleterious mutation and never really straightens out. I forgot all about it, the plants look like normal Hua Moas and then they don't get tall and just start looking weird. It's kinda hard to tell but those leaves have slight variegation.

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