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Banana Economics Forum Bananas are the number one exported fruit in the world, and the number one fruit eaten in nearly every country. This forum is for discussions of the economics of bananas involving producers, economists, consumers, transporters, wholesalers, and governments.


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Old 07-27-2009, 08:53 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: Chiquita - An Awful Short History

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Originally Posted by Michael James View Post
Just 3 things I would like to say:
1. I've read Ecuadorean history from the U.S. Department of State & other sources, as well. Sorry Bepah, but the Ecuadorean people have done more to actively & violently protest corruption & affect political change than most any other country I've read about.
2. I've also read John Steinbach's "Grapes of Wrath". Nobody will ever find the truth on the Left or Right side of the fence (it's always somewhere between) but that & the history that follows clearly support the need for unionization; pacifism changes exactly nothing and, in fact, supports corruption & greed.
3. As a loyal American, I would take Extreme exception to the slaughter of fellow Americans simply because they seemed to stand in the way of a business.
4. I think Bob's got a point & I want more great nanners, too .

Okay, okay.... 4 things to say.
I guess I need to respond.....

1) Active and violent protestations of corruption is what does not work, as we are seeing. Participation in legal voting (what is the voting turnout, Lorzx?) by the people will have a much better result. My understanding is that among most of the Central and South American democracies is that most citizens do not vote. The true revolutionary is not a freedom fighter but an educator, helping people understand what changes need to be made.

2) Grapes of Wrath is a work of fiction.......

3) I would be upset as well if there was wholesale murder in this country. however, with the changes happening here, we may not be far from it, with the unemployment at decade high levels, summer heat, racial tension, etc. Our police in this country are not respected and they are outgunned...any riots we see in the future have the potential for extreme bloodshed. In fact, I am not upset, I am frightened at the potential this year.

4) More bananas for me too!

Thanks for the dialogue.
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Old 07-27-2009, 09:12 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: Chiquita - An Awful Short History

1. Voter turnout in Ecuador is about 98% - the state fines people for not voting. It is also enshrined in our constitution to right to protest, and the right to boot the president whenever a large enough group is unhappy with his actions. To bring this around to our discussion, if the plantation workers were in the square in Quito, in front of the Presidential Palace, things would likely get done - it's like Speaker's Corner but the government actually listens to the people.

3. You would object to wholesale murder in your own country, but you don't object to wholesale murder of other people in other countries, even by order of your own government?

4. More bananas for everybody!
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Old 07-27-2009, 03:49 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: Chiquita - An Awful Short History

John , just a note to say I don't totally disagree with you just a few points.

Beth, when you find as large of a country better than the USA let me know. Despite the initial assumption, Chiquita brands doesn't represent the people here just the portions of government that are within their considerable reach. (you've read my thoughts on this that only a couple have so I don't disagree with you either, just standing up for my country).I'm pretty sure no one here could agree to harming anyone.

MJ, thanks for agreeing with me(always a good decision).

Tommy, way to go with a thought provoking post!

At least we all agree that we should have more variety. Too bad we're not the ones with the authority, something would get done.
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Old 07-27-2009, 05:46 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: Chiquita - An Awful Short History

well I'm very load about it at my work and have been told to tone it down. I know what has happen over the years in other parts of the world and most american are just that ingnorent about what has gone on in other parts of the world. And to the point of denial. I look at it as though some of them have the brain of a crack head they just sit in a room with nothing in it but a chair and a pipe, yet they see nothing wrong with it.
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Old 07-27-2009, 05:46 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Default Re: Chiquita - An Awful Short History

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Originally Posted by lorax View Post
1. Voter turnout in Ecuador is about 98% - the state fines people for not voting. It is also enshrined in our constitution to right to protest, and the right to boot the president whenever a large enough group is unhappy with his actions. To bring this around to our discussion, if the plantation workers were in the square in Quito, in front of the Presidential Palace, things would likely get done - it's like Speaker's Corner but the government actually listens to the people.

3. You would object to wholesale murder in your own country, but you don't object to wholesale murder of other people in other countries, even by order of your own government?

4. More bananas for everybody!
Lorax,

Let me clarify....

1) If things are presented to the workers as you have described them, why aren't they in the Speaker's corner every day (considering they are on strike and it is the largest contributor to the GNP) and why is the president still in power? This is quite confusing to me as an outsider. Is it a given that whoever is elected or in power will be in bed with foriegn industrialists?

3) I object to wholesale murder wherever it occurs. Naturally, it doesn't occur often here, although I am expecting more of it this summer.
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Old 07-27-2009, 07:31 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Default Re: Chiquita - An Awful Short History

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Originally Posted by Ohio'sBest View Post
It seems that they are loosing a little bit of Walmart's business as well. The article I read said that Walmart wants it cheaper so they are going to other sources.
I know that I haven't seen any Chiquita brand bananas at Wal-Mart in several months now. I was commenting on this to my wife a couple of weeks back. I had begun noticing that the bananas they were offering had this sickly yellow color with an almost grayish cast to them. More often than not, when I peel the bananas to eat them, there are bad spots in the fruit itself. Wal-Mart has obviously switched to a company that is selling a lower grade of bananas. The Chiquita or Dole Cavendish they used to sell may not have been great but the quality was definitely better than the junk they are selling now. I'll have to look and see what company is on the sticker next time I go.
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Old 07-28-2009, 05:44 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Default Re: Chiquita - An Awful Short History

That sounds like the article I read; Walmart's success is based on low prices so they just buy from whoever sells the cheapest. But since home grown even beats Chiquita, think I'll send them a letter & ask them to raise their prices to settle the strike. I wouldn't mind paying a dollar a pound or even more if I've got a chance of getting home grown nanners, too .
Bepah: If things get that bad in California, just move to Oklahoma; aside from parties, things have been real peaceful here.

BTW, while in fact I'm not so militant as I like to sound, every good writer knows why "Grapes of Wrath" was relegated to the level of "fiction". Try as we might, nobody's Perfect.

Last edited by Eric : 07-28-2009 at 05:52 AM. Reason: Not finished
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Old 07-28-2009, 08:16 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Default Re: Chiquita - An Awful Short History

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael James View Post
That sounds like the article I read; Walmart's success is based on low prices so they just buy from whoever sells the cheapest. But since home grown even beats Chiquita, think I'll send them a letter & ask them to raise their prices to settle the strike. I wouldn't mind paying a dollar a pound or even more if I've got a chance of getting home grown nanners, too .
Bepah: If things get that bad in California, just move to Oklahoma; aside from parties, things have been real peaceful here.

BTW, while in fact I'm not so militant as I like to sound, every good writer knows why "Grapes of Wrath" was relegated to the level of "fiction". Try as we might, nobody's Perfect.
Michael,

Raising the prices at the retail level will only pad the pockets of the retailers. You may want to look into getting a 'Fair Trade' policy into this area. There are strong economic arguments that Fair Trade, while helping producers a little (again, the workers, where the problem is, get nothing) penalizes the consumer.

Things in CA are bad and have the potential to get worse. However, after we hit bottom, things will improve greatly, I am hopeful.

I like OK, but those dang Blue Northers that come through keep me away...

Sometimes I think the State of CA is a work of fiction.

Take care,

John
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Old 07-28-2009, 08:35 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Default Re: Chiquita - An Awful Short History

We can't even figure out a way to pay workers in this country what they deserve. Immokalee workers have been trying to get a penny a pound increase for years and nobody can figure out how to pay it. I mean lets face it the consumer wouldn't even notice a penny a pound, but the pickers would see much higher paychecks. People talk a lot about wanting to help out, but nothing is ever done about it. Here's a good example: Martin can pick 800 42 lb crates of corn per day and he makes $0.10/crate, if the man got an extra penny per ear he would increase his pay from $80/day to $464/day and the cost of a crate of corn would go up a whopping $0.48. If I could make $464/day picking corn, that is what I'd be doing. And the end consumer wouldn't even realize they were a paying a penny more.
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Old 07-28-2009, 09:17 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Default Re: Chiquita - An Awful Short History

Hi Bepah , Gotta admit I know as much about economics as I do about Marsian tree frogs (if there are any) . But, as a consumer, I'd be willing to do a lot to help out the workers; I've seen pics of pickers & that's gotta be some really hard work. BTW, the Blue Northers aren't as bad as they look - just a little exhilerating at times (hate spell-checkers). Also, keep hearing about the economy being bad but haven't really noticed it. Guess it depends on what part of the country you're in cause my parents haven't even said much about it. Had no idea things were that bad in California... If it gets that bad, bail out anyway !
Nick, I'd be happy to pay that extra penny... or even more .

Forgot to say: Any good writer also knows that Steinbach (Grapes of Wrath) was Not doing an expose on California... Just an expose on man's nature. I'm certain similar conditions were prevalent everywhere during those hard times.

Last edited by Eric : 07-28-2009 at 10:05 AM. Reason: Not finished
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Old 07-28-2009, 10:56 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Default Re: Chiquita - An Awful Short History

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Originally Posted by bepah View Post
You are supporting my point exactly. Unionization does not work, especially when the labor supply is so large. It seems pretty clear that when some of the workers refuse to work (via the strike), wages go up, as the supply of workers shrinks. It has nothing to do with smacking the union down, it is simply a supply and demand solution. Once the strike is over (if it ever is) the number of workers goes up and the wages go down.
This logic is flawed.

"Unionization does not work"
Have you ever heard of Cesar Chavez?Cesar Chavez Biography: Labor Leader - EnchantedLearning.com
Just think of what our standard of living would be today if unions had not fought for...............
The 40hr work week
The 8hr day
Overtime
Child labor laws
Job safety requirements
Pensions
Equal pay for women
Employer provided health insurance
The freedom of employees to organize without being beaten by company goons


"...when some of the workers refuse to work (via the strike), wages go up, as the supply of workers shrinks."
Replacement workers are paid more usually b/c it is required to attract people who otherwise would not want to cross a potentially violent picket line.

"Once the strike is over (if it ever is) the number of workers goes up and the wages go down."
You assume that the employer wins every strike?! More often than not the striking workers return to higher wages and better benefits.

Unions are not the solution to everything, and they have had some dark days. But to say they cannot accomplish anything is an extremely misinformed statement and a total disregard of labor history.
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Old 07-28-2009, 11:28 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Default Re: Chiquita - An Awful Short History

Nobody is holding a gun their head to make any of them work for Dole or Chiquita or Del Monte. If they were to lose their jobs tomorrow they'd find something else to do. They would have to. They did other things before the banana companies - historically and now, as in there are other jobs than working at a banana plantation.

The banana companies are not the end all be all.

When push comes to shove they'll do something.
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Old 07-28-2009, 11:32 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Default Re: Chiquita - An Awful Short History

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Originally Posted by southlatropical View Post
This logic is flawed.

"Unionization does not work"
Have you ever heard of Cesar Chavez?Cesar Chavez Biography: Labor Leader - EnchantedLearning.com
Just think of what our standard of living would be today if unions had not fought for...............
The 40hr work week
The 8hr day
Overtime
Child labor laws
Job safety requirements
Pensions
Equal pay for women
Employer provided health insurance
The freedom of employees to organize without being beaten by company goons


"...when some of the workers refuse to work (via the strike), wages go up, as the supply of workers shrinks."
Replacement workers are paid more usually b/c it is required to attract people who otherwise would not want to cross a potentially violent picket line.

"Once the strike is over (if it ever is) the number of workers goes up and the wages go down."
You assume that the employer wins every strike?! More often than not the striking workers return to higher wages and better benefits.

Unions are not the solution to everything, and they have had some dark days. But to say they cannot accomplish anything is an extremely misinformed statement and a total disregard of US labor history.
I feel I must reply, although I do not want to start a pro/anti union discussion here.

Most of the items here may have been initiated by the unions but have been more or less legislated by various levels of government (due to the lining of legislators pockets byt union leaders).

My take on unions:

1) It overpays many for the skill sets that they bring and underpays many for the skills they are not allowed to use due to the contracts established.

2) The long term results of unionization is the destruction of jobs. Acceleration of technology which is cheaper than manpower is driven by high labor costs. Technology in CA, much of it at UC Davis has caused much of the 'advances' in plant technology and providing consumers with less flavorful fruit and vegetables that can be picked by machine, crated by machine, etc. Noting to your reference of Cesar Chavez, farm workers in CA (and everywhere I'd imagine) are no better off than they were during his day, and they now have to pay union dues which lowers their effective net pay.

3) During times of high unemployment (just like now) unions have no bargaining power. There are plenty of idle workers. To say that those who cross the line risk being violently attacked speaks lowly of a union worker. If their jobs are held only by the threat of violence, what skills do they offer the employer? Thuggery happens on both sides of the line.


You mention all of the good things that unons bring and have ignored some of the bad. The recent implosion of out auto industry is probably the best example. One of the last true industries in this country has been socialized due to the unions excessive contracts, especially in retirement and heathcare. Additoinally, the 'job bank', and other bennies have kept costs well over other similar jobs in other countries. now, instead of the company paying autoworkers and their retirees, we as taxpayers get to support them. If you believe that GM will return to profitability in any near term, you are not being honest with the numbers. Very soon, the auto czar will be coming to congress asking for more bailout money.

The unions have been protected in this country by the government as they cannot make it alone.

Hotel workers in San Francisco strike every other year, their jobs are easily replaced by 'scabs', they give in and accept contracts way out of line compared to what they had asked. In the meantime, the workers are unemployed and have zero income.

The last grocery clerks strike, held in Southern CA, went on until they came back to work with a contract less than what was oribginally offered by management.

In the past, union organizers risked a lot (sometimes their lives) in order to get safe working conditions and a fair wage. Today, since these needs have been met (at least in the USA) the focus is on the union, not the jobs they do. Hence, union membership is at the lowest levels in recent history.

Today, my son-in-law, cannot get a job. He is a union member (sheet metal worker). He could work tomorrow for a wage well under what the contract offers, but that is what the job is worth today. If he were to do it, the union would remove him from thier ranks and cancel all of his benefits and retirement (such as they are) and never allow him to join again. At this time, the union, which really has no bargaining power since the labor is now imported from Mexico (I am not certain as to the legal or illegal status of these workers) and these workers will work for less than any union contract.

So, he remains unemployed (he cannot even take a job in another trade, the same penalties apply) and on the dole.

This has gone on much longer than I wanted, so I will end it.

Hopefully, we can get back to getting more bananas.....
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Old 07-29-2009, 08:48 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Default Re: Chiquita - An Awful Short History

At this point, I can begin to believe it's more a matter of evolution. After all, the 'red' trail of the United Fruit Company bears a striking resemblance (in ways) to the countless 'red' trails found in history throughout time.
Slavery leads to pyramids leads to the revolts leads to Aleric leads to the Dark Ages.
So much for Gaius Julius Ceaser's quest for spice.... No worries, here comes Britain.
India Indian massacres aside, ruling the waves leads to bread fruit leads to Blighs leads to mutinies leads to British courts leads to mariner rights.
Back from Cook's Island, the Napoleanic Code seems in order (right up to Wellington), an Austrian prince takes a final bow, & Germany (upon defeat & general ruination) sends the kids out to fight (time for a few child labor laws, at this point).
Point being, none of the above had Unions or the legislative blessings they bestowed (at whatever price, for whatever reason).
Back to Now: Depression leads to Teddy leads to Unions leads to technology leads to recession leads to....
Point being, I've yet to see a final answer.... I've also yet to see the sun come up in 2010.
"It would take an Act of Congress" is a fairly common expression. The whole world, right now, is desperate for a solution.
What I am fairly certain of is that it won't be a dusted-off Union of the Depression Era or anything else that's been tried, so far. If a solution exists, it will Very likely represent yet another step in the evolution of business-not-as-usual on Earth.
It's good to see debates like this. Taken in a 'Productive' fashion, they Are that evolutionary step.
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Old 07-29-2009, 09:33 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Default Re: Chiquita - An Awful Short History

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Originally Posted by bepah View Post
Most of the items here may have been initiated by the unions but have been more or less legislated by various levels of government (due to the lining of legislators pockets byt union leaders).
And while unions lobbied and payed to have these laws passed, business intrests lobbied and paid to stop them. The unions were simply playing the system that was set up between government and business before they came on the scene. At least they lobbied and paid for a good cause.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bepah View Post
My take on unions:

1) It overpays many for the skill sets that they bring and underpays many for the skills they are not allowed to use due to the contracts established.

2) The long term results of unionization is the destruction of jobs. Acceleration of technology which is cheaper than manpower is driven by high labor costs. Technology in CA, much of it at UC Davis has caused much of the 'advances' in plant technology and providing consumers with less flavorful fruit and vegetables that can be picked by machine, crated by machine, etc. Noting to your reference of Cesar Chavez, farm workers in CA (and everywhere I'd imagine) are no better off than they were during his day, and they now have to pay union dues which lowers their effective net pay.
#1 is a general statement that cannot be applied to every union job. I feel my pay is very fair and I have plenty of opportunities for advancement.

Advances in technology are inevitable. They are driven by profit, not labor unions.

To say that farm workers are no better off than they were in the 1950's when Cezar Chavez started organizing is just flat out wrong.
Fight in the Fields - UNITED FARMWORKERS UNION | PBS

Quote:
Originally Posted by bepah View Post
3) During times of high unemployment (just like now) unions have no bargaining power. There are plenty of idle workers. To say that those who cross the line risk being violently attacked speaks lowly of a union worker. If their jobs are held only by the threat of violence, what skills do they offer the employer? Thuggery happens on both sides of the line.

During times of high unemployment no one has bargaining power. If you are unemployed you either take whatever job you can find or you wait. My union does not stop people from finding work outside of our trade if there are no jobs to be had. But during times of high employment union members have the advantage through collective bargaining.

I did not say that the striking farm workers would incite violence on the picket line. It is the fruit companies that have a history of violence. They create a tense and dangerous atmosphere in which to work. It is well known that Cezar Chavez was a proponent of non-violence.
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Old 07-29-2009, 09:55 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Default Re: Chiquita - An Awful Short History

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Originally Posted by bepah View Post
You mention all of the good things that unons bring and have ignored some of the bad. The recent implosion of out auto industry is probably the best example. One of the last true industries in this country has been socialized due to the unions excessive contracts, especially in retirement and heathcare. Additoinally, the 'job bank', and other bennies have kept costs well over other similar jobs in other countries. now, instead of the company paying autoworkers and their retirees, we as taxpayers get to support them. If you believe that GM will return to profitability in any near term, you are not being honest with the numbers. Very soon, the auto czar will be coming to congress asking for more bailout money.
If the unions were soley to blame for the auto industries troubles then Ford would not have just posted higher than expected returns for the 2nd qtr without the help of bailout money. washingtonpost.com Bad management decisions, poor product designs, and the rising cost of health care has just as much to do with GM and Chrystler's troubles.
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The unions have been protected in this country by the government as they cannot make it alone.
Again, a general statement that does not apply to every situation. I am a member of the Electricians Union. Our contractors bid work against non-union contractors every day without any help from the government.

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Originally Posted by bepah View Post
Today, my son-in-law, cannot get a job. He is a union member (sheet metal worker). He could work tomorrow for a wage well under what the contract offers, but that is what the job is worth today. If he were to do it, the union would remove him from thier ranks and cancel all of his benefits and retirement (such as they are) and never allow him to join again. At this time, the union, which really has no bargaining power since the labor is now imported from Mexico (I am not certain as to the legal or illegal status of these workers) and these workers will work for less than any union contract.

So, he remains unemployed (he cannot even take a job in another trade, the same penalties apply) and on the dole.
I am sorry to hear that your son is unemployed. Your claim that he cannot take a job in another trade is not common practice in construction unions. During one slowdown in the construction industry I took a job working as a welders helper on a pipeline. My union had no problem with that. When you choose to work construction you know there will be good times and bad. You have to save during the good times to make it through the bad.

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Originally Posted by bepah View Post
This has gone on much longer than I wanted, so I will end it.

Hopefully, we can get back to getting more bananas.....

This thread was started on the subject of workers being mistreated. I am just responding to your general claims that unions can do no good. I have had a higher standard of living b/c of my union membership. I have not gone a single day since the the day I was born without health insurance. I was first covered by my dad's union health plan and then my own union health plan. My children, brothers, their children, their wives, my mother, have always had health insurance. My father, myself, my brothers, and your son will be able to retire with some sense of security b/c of our union pensions.

I never said that unions could fix all of Central Americas problems, but a labor movement could improve the livelyhood of it's citizens just as it did in this country. Unions set many of the standards we take for granted today.
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Old 07-29-2009, 02:00 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Default Re: Chiquita - An Awful Short History

As revealed in Dan Koeppel's book not to be one of their better business acumens, this, the last word of the sentence especially, is from the Chiquita.com website and it's very entertaining:

"We set the standards for cultivation, irrigation, fertilization and of course, research."

I believe that accolade could is better suited for...Dole. I could be wrong.
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Old 07-29-2009, 02:49 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Default Re: Chiquita - An Awful Short History

I'm going to have to jump in here again, despite the fact that discretion is the better part of not posting about things that piss me off....

I'll prephrase my comments by pointing out that I'm also unionized (IAATSE and the International Scenographers) and I've found that it has bettered both my life and career.

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Originally Posted by bepah View Post
1) It overpays many for the skill sets that they bring and underpays many for the skills they are not allowed to use due to the contracts established.
On what planet? In my experience, there are very few situations where a unionized worker will be stopped from using undescribed skillsets under established contracts... Certainly, when I've been hired to do, say, a lighting hang and focus, the union has never ever prevented me from going on to help out in carpentry or with sound or rigging. Before you tell me that this isn't construction trades, I'll point out to you that I necessarily have the same skills as a journeyman carpenter, electrician, and welder in order to do the jobs I do.

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2) The long term results of unionization is the destruction of jobs.
Again, on what planet? Certainly my experience with unionized labour in Central and South America runs exactly opposite to this statement. In many cases, especially in construction trades, the unions actually create jobs. Then again, very little here is automated, and it seems likely to remain so because if there were talk of replacing these jobs, there would be riots by both unionized and non-union labourers.

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3) During times of high unemployment (just like now) unions have no bargaining power. There are plenty of idle workers. To say that those who cross the line risk being violently attacked speaks lowly of a union worker. If their jobs are held only by the threat of violence, what skills do they offer the employer? Thuggery happens on both sides of the line.
South LA Tropicals makes a great point - in crisis/recession/depression times, noboday has any bargaining power, unionized or not. Of course there is good and bad on both sides of the line, but this can be said of all facets of human activity.

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Originally Posted by bepah View Post
You mention all of the good things that unons bring and have ignored some of the bad. The recent implosion of out auto industry is probably the best example. One of the last true industries in this country has been socialized due to the unions excessive contracts, especially in retirement and heathcare. Additoinally, the 'job bank', and other bennies have kept costs well over other similar jobs in other countries. now, instead of the company paying autoworkers and their retirees, we as taxpayers get to support them. If you believe that GM will return to profitability in any near term, you are not being honest with the numbers. Very soon, the auto czar will be coming to congress asking for more bailout money.
Again, unionized labour is not wholly to blame for the collapse of the Auto industry. (mis)Management and poor design played a much larger part.

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Originally Posted by bepah View Post
In the past, union organizers risked a lot (sometimes their lives) in order to get safe working conditions and a fair wage. Today, since these needs have been met (at least in the USA) the focus is on the union, not the jobs they do. Hence, union membership is at the lowest levels in recent history.
Perhaps this is true for the USA, but I will make the point that it's still not the case in the developing world - union leaders here are still risking their lives and livelihoods to secure safe working conditions and fair wages. So you're dealing with a pretty big generality to say that union membership is at an all-time low. Perhaps in the US, but in other countries it's still growing.

--

Like South LA Tropicals, I have a much higher standard of living due to my union membership, and I also have the opportunity to work a great deal more than I would were I not a member of the unions to which I belong. I bid against non-union technicians and designers on every job, with no aid from the governments of the countries in which I work, and I consider it perfectly fair if/when I'm turned down - it has much more to do with my skills and ideas, and the needs of the contract than it does my union status.

I am now officially done with this thread. It began as a discussion on the treatment of workers in Latin America, and it's digressed much to far from its original topic.
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Old 07-30-2009, 08:42 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Default Re: Chiquita - An Awful Short History

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Nobody is holding a gun their head to make any of them work for Dole or Chiquita or Del Monte. If they were to lose their jobs tomorrow they'd find something else to do. They would have to. They did other things before the banana companies - historically and now, as in there are other jobs than working at a banana plantation.

The banana companies are not the end all be all.

When push comes to shove they'll do something.

I think sometimes the problem may be wold you rather make $0 or $4 per day and most people given the option between starving and $4 would take the $4 even if it meant working hard all day. I think the question is can the banana companies afford to pay more than low wages? The answer is absolutely, but it is going to have to forced upon them by the consumer.
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Old 07-30-2009, 09:29 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Default Re: Chiquita - An Awful Short History

Well ya Force is the key word there. Can they really be forced to do so? Maybe but in most cases there going to be blood shed of some kind. The fact is in such poor areas. there is really nothing else for them to do. Chiquita , Dole are the big boys there. Ok some might make the case that they could deal in the drug trade ( which is a live and well) but most are just trying to survive, most Americans are very ingnorent as to how hard it is there. They don't have choice. Here in the USA if i don't like my job I can just look for some work some were else, that is not the case there. I'm not trying to make a case for most Unions but in the past they have made a difference. But not now, at least not here. They are so corrupt I would rather go it a lone.
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