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Banana Seed Germination Forum As one of the toughest seeds in the plant kingdom to figure out the keys to germination success with, this is a forum with banana seed germination tips. Please entitle posts like "Musa balbisiana," or "Musa cheesmani," etc. People would then post a reply under that heading, sharing their germination successes (and failures), what materials and methods they used, germination percentage, etc.


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Old 02-19-2007, 05:53 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Trying again with Ensete perrieri (from RPS)

I got some more seeds of this in from RPS (rarepalmseeds.com) a couple of weeks ago. Lots of them looked no good, but he sent me 173 seeds when I ordered 100, so I can't complain. Anyway, I separated 100 and did the float test in some warm water for 16 hours. 41 of them floated, and 59 sunk to the bottom. I sowed them all anyway, but separated the floaters from the sinkers. They were sowed in Promix, in a flat with a humidity dome, at a depth of about 1/2 inch. I placed them in the greenhouse, which goes up to about 85F during the day right now, and into the low 70s at night. The humidity dome will trap some heat, so under it is probably around 90F+ during the heat of the day. If it gets too hot, I will use a humidity dome with holes in the top.

Sure would be nice just to get one or two of these babies to sprout! It is a beautiful banana, the only native banana of Madagascar. The other 73 seeds went back into the bag. Ensete seeds can stay dormant for so long, I figured if the ones I just sowed show no promise, I'll still have a few left to play around with. If the ones I have sowed in flats right now don't pop within a couple of months, I'm going to try some other things with them.

Anybody else order any of this new batch from RPS? Has anybody even ever sprouted one of them yet??

Last edited by bigdog : 02-19-2007 at 06:06 PM.
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Old 02-20-2007, 05:36 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Trying again with Ensete perrieri (from RPS)

Bigdog, I am just curious, isn't ensete perrierri almost identical to Ensete Glaucum? Just a heck of alot harder to sprout?

Anyway, your setup for sprouting them seems ideal.
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Old 02-20-2007, 10:38 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Trying again with Ensete perrieri (from RPS)

I shortly have 50 seeds of ensete perrieri in my germination box.


Lets see what they do, i have them on fluctuating temperatures for
the day and night. Just as I do with the sikkimensis.
Maybe this is wrong as my ensete ventricosums sprouted well at a steady
30 celsius temperature.

ron
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Old 02-20-2007, 10:57 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Trying again with Ensete perrieri (from RPS)

Erlend, according to the blurb on RPS's website, it is very similar to E. glaucum. I don't know what the differences are, besides E. perrieri having yellow midribs. Guess I'll have to grow it to find out!

Dutchman, I've germinated Ensete ventricosum and E. glaucum with fluctuating temps. Not by design, but they were just set in the greenhouse like I did with these new seeds. You don't have to have fluctuating temps for Ensete sp., but it doesn't hinder them from sprouting.
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Old 02-20-2007, 12:31 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Trying again with Ensete perrieri (from RPS)

Dutchman, I've germinated Ensete ventricosum and E. glaucum with fluctuating temps. Not by design, but they were just set in the greenhouse like I did with these new seeds. You don't have to have fluctuating temps for Ensete sp., but it doesn't hinder them from sprouting.


Bigdog, I can not imagine that with so many seeds none would germinate.
What would be so special than about this specie?

You have 100 and I 50 right now. If none germinates I fly to madagaskar
and dig 2 out.

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Old 02-20-2007, 10:07 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Trying again with Ensete perrieri (from RPS)

Quote:
Originally Posted by the flying dutchman View Post
Bigdog, I can not imagine that with so many seeds none would germinate.
What would be so special than about this specie?
Ron,

Here's the picture from rarepalmseeds.com :



Looks very similar to Ensete glaucum in this picture, except for the yellow midribs. Now, look at the picture from The Musaceae website:



That picture is quite unlike Ensete glaucum, IMHO. It looks sort of like an intermediate species between E. glaucum and E. ventricosum. Now compare with Ensete glaucum:



As to what makes it so special, well...nothing really except that nobody has it! That and I am a species collector, and don't have it yet!
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Old 02-21-2007, 07:33 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Trying again with Ensete perrieri (from RPS)

Hi bigdog, do you think there should be a bit of red glow on the leaves
of perrieri to make the difference between this and glauca?

Well, anyway, if some of my 50 seeds succeed I will let you know for sure.

ron
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Old 02-21-2007, 01:29 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Trying again with Ensete perrieri (from RPS)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbungalow View Post
Bigdog, I am just curious, isn't ensete perrierri almost identical to Ensete Glaucum? Just a heck of alot harder to sprout?

Anyway, your setup for sprouting them seems ideal.
They are two distinct species. I suppose you could say they are similar in being 2 large green Ensete species with green infloresences. But they are still very morphologically distinct. In addition they come from very different places and it appears E. perrierii has wider base (more like E. ventricosum, I have not seen E. glaucum over about 2ft wide).
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Old 02-21-2007, 06:24 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Trying again with Ensete perrieri (from RPS)

http://www.bananas.org/wiki/Ensete_Perrieri
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Old 02-22-2007, 03:57 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Trying again with Ensete perrieri (from RPS)

They seemed really stubborn the first time I tried 30, and not one sprouted. This time I ordered 200 seeds(cheap, 20 bucks) and got over 300 with some grey colored ones like bigdog did. I sowed almost all of them and they all looked viable by breaking a few open. If I don't get a single one this time I'll write perrieri off for good, or until TC.
It maybe a really good Ensete for southern California since most native madagascan palms do great in it's mediteranian climate.
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Old 02-22-2007, 04:14 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Trying again with Ensete perrieri (from RPS)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tropicallvr View Post
It maybe a really good Ensete for southern California since most native madagascan palms do great in it's mediteranian climate.

Not sure about this as you must know that it is a hughe isle with very
different climates on different places.
There are places with much rain and also very dry places. Only along
the coasts it is steady warm. In the inland and high places the temperature
fluctuates enormous.
Those palms may grow on total other spots then the banana.
Also the soil is not the same at the whole isle.

Just doing research for this.

ron
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Old 02-26-2007, 12:36 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Trying again with Ensete perrieri (from RPS)

Many types of palms are a good indicator of climate, and what other plants from a particular area will do well in a specific climate. Jubaea chilensis does great through out the west coast of the US (easily the most cold hardy feather palm for the west US), but on the east it rarely survives the hot summer nights. This climate matching is mirrored in the bamboo species Chusquea culeo which is from the same area of high elevation South America as Jubaea chilensis and will also not survive in the east US.
In general the plants from Madagasgar would probally do just fine in both Florida and So Cal(since the palms do), but I am excited about the So Cal match because there are so many micro climates in southern California that there is likely to be a perfect match for climate found. I think most of Madagasgar has a pronounced dry season. Coastal hills like are found around Santa Barbara, and Ventura, also have a very pronounced dry period, and the area could be a perfect match.
I would be cool if eventually some of the mainland African Ensete species were introduced into cultivation for climates like Texas, Arizona, southern New Mexico, and southern California, since some of the climates are very similar with monsoonal summer rains, and a dry die back period which is common for most of the hot climate African Ensete species.
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Old 02-26-2007, 07:17 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: Trying again with Ensete perrieri (from RPS)

You are so right, ofcourse the palms are indicators but not more than that.
I just meant to say that I was not sure that it would grow generally in
all CA without much problems.
I know there grow 7 species of Baobab on madagasker each in his own
microclimate! I could find only one spot on the big isle where the perrieri
grows(maybe I am wrong).
Offcourse if you take Florida and south-CA the chances should be good
but it is just because we know so little about the specie and because
it is so rare.
Actually its strange we try to germinate this one and know so little
about it, especially when no one succeeds to germinate it.
Maybe more knowledge about the habitat is usefull.

Well, I hope we will see soon a spot on the wiki where it grows.(jarred ))

ron
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Old 02-27-2007, 08:00 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: Trying again with Ensete perrieri (from RPS)

Quote:
Originally Posted by the flying dutchman View Post
Well, I hope we will see soon a spot on the wiki where it grows.(jarred ))

ron
Hey Ron, help me get the word out lol!
Anyone and everyone that joins here as a member can add their info and knowledge to the page!
http://www.bananas.org/wiki/Ensete_Perrieri
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Old 02-27-2007, 08:18 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: Trying again with Ensete perrieri (from RPS)

That is really true, have not thought about that.

Ron
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Old 03-04-2007, 03:48 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: Trying again with Ensete perrieri (from RPS)

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Hey Ron, help me get the word out lol!
Anyone and everyone that joins here as a member can add their info and knowledge to the page!
http://www.bananas.org/wiki/Ensete_Perrieri
Yeah, I'd like to hear some more about this species if you have any more on where it grows, elevation, climate. It might provide some clues. Maybe even what type of palms grow near?(Just kidding)
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Old 03-04-2007, 12:06 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: Trying again with Ensete perrieri (from RPS)

First I wrote the park where they are supposed to grow in english, then
I did it in my best frenche. No response at all.
Than I mailed the organization of national parks on madagascar in French.
Here the E-mail adres contact@angap.mg. They did not response too.
I asked both if they could give me specific information on the places where
it grows, because then I would know more about the climate.

From what I found out myselve they grow in the more dry regions with
temperature fluctuations not in the rainy north part of the Isle.
But to add info to the wiki you have to be 100% sure.

I will give it a try again mailing the ANGAP organization but maybe they
don't want to share information and keep the banana for themselves.

If they respond I will ask them if near by the banana a palm is growing

ron
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Old 03-04-2007, 12:35 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: Trying again with Ensete perrieri (from RPS)

http://www.parcs-madagascar.com/bemaraha/bemaraha.htm

Here the info from parc national bemaraha.

You can find detailed info in the climate.

Especially watch the lime-environment where it is growing in.
I suppose soil with a high PH.

They do not say anything about palms, just kidding tropicalvr.

Jarred , I did the job so far(WIKI)

ron

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Old 03-04-2007, 05:24 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: Trying again with Ensete perrieri (from RPS)

I'm thinking that this could be an Ensete species where fluctuating temperatures may be necessary to get germination, judging by some of the climate info from Ron. Seeing as how Madagascar has been separated from the rest of the other land masses for a very long time, perhaps Ensete perrieri seeds evolved to only respond to fluctuating temps. It is a strange little corner of the world, and very diverse.

The pH is interesting also. When I think of a tropical environment like Madagascar, I usually think of weathered, acidic soils. Hmmm...if I ever do get one to sprout, I'll need to do some liming for it's planting hole. My pH is 5.1!
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Old 03-12-2007, 04:22 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: Trying again with Ensete perrieri (from RPS)

The pH is interesting also. When I think of a tropical environment like Madagascar, I usually think of weathered, acidic soils. Hmmm...if I ever do get one to sprout, I'll need to do some liming for it's planting hole. My pH is 5.1![/quote]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bigdog, I have read the description of 'ensete sp kluay pa/thailand on the
site of rare palmseeds and it looks likes this one grows in similar
condiitions as perrieri. They speak about limestone cliffs were it grows on.

I think they must be related close to each other.

ron

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