Sodak

I've read many times here about the importance of using "fresh" seeds when attempting germination. How fresh is "fresh"?

I harvested some seeds in Oct 2008, planted them in seed trays about two months ago. One seed out of thirty has germinated. Should I expect more to germinate at this rate? The seeds were still on the plant, inside dried, shriveled fruit when they were collected.

Thanks!
Troy

Whatever

Should be super fresh being that they are -7 months old!!!

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Spiral out. Keep going...

jpfloors

-7 mo sounds fresh to me as well!!!

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bigdog

Well...nobody really knows for sure. Some Musa seeds actually germinate at a higher percentage when stored for a few months, while others do much better when "fresh." The problem there is that the seeds from that study were of an unknown species, and no such data exists for specific species. I have read articles where seeds that were taken out of fresh fruit, cleaned and sown, germinated at a much higher percentage as seeds from the same species that came from a rotten or dried fruit. So, I imagine that if you were to harvest seeds from a fresh fruit, they would be considered fresh until they dried out. When they are allowed to dry out is when they go somewhat dormant (some go very dormant!). If you are planning on trying to germinate them right away, then they should be sown immediately after cleaning them of the fruit. In order to store them properly, they need to be dried out to 10% seed content moisture. This pretty much just involves letting them set out for about 2 days to dry. If they are stored before they dry out sufficiently, the length of time of their viability is reduced drastically (only a few weeks)! I think ideally, the seed dealers would ship them moist, having never let them dry out. When a few weeks have passed, or some start germinating, then they should let them dry out properly to store them and keep them viable.

That all being said...I don't know! LOL! Hope that answers your question.?!
Really, it all depends on the conditions of the seeds from the time that they are harvested. If harvested from fresh fruit, dried and stored properly, they should stay "fresh" for many months. If not, who knows?

Tropicallvr

What Frank says makes alot of sense.
It got me thinking about the different environments that species are from. There most likely is specific instructions written into the DNA of some species seeds. Like if the area the banana was from had a pronounced dry season, it would have more "grow later" DNA and would need to be able to survive a time without ideal conditions before it could then germinate in the rainy season. Then there are also climates that get a fair amount of rain year round, and those species may have more "grow now" instructions written into its DNA. Then there are the seriously cold environments in Asia like China where Mussellea lasiocarpa comes from, and that species has "need winter chill" written into it's DNA.
All of these environments are found in the areas that Musa is native to, so it would seem likely that they have developed/evolved to their specific environmental conditions.
Just some thoughts.

Sodak

Excellent feedback. This is just what I'm looking for. The seeds came from Musa Laterita. The fruit were mostly dried out. When I got back home I removed the pulp, cleaned the seeds dried them for a couple of days, and then stored them for a couple of months in an airtight, dry container in a cool, dark kitchen cabinet. So far only one has germinated. It germinated about two weeks after soaking for two days then it was put in peat. The second half of the batch is soaking for two weeks ala Erelend's instructions. I will sow those next week. Maybe I'll get better results early. I know I'm impatient, but I just couldn't wait 8 months to a year to see any activity. If I did have to wait that long, I might be likely to give up on them.

Thanks for the comments. Fantastic. Keep them coming!

Thanks. Troy

Sodak

So far 11 seeds out of 30 have germinated from the first batch. It's been about 6 weeks since they were sown.

jpfloors

Could some seeds become adaptable, therefore once they realize they will not ever be receiving that "winter chill" they'll start germinating to adapt? Hence why some seeds can take 6 months to years to germinate? Or is this a far fetched possiblility?

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Tropicallvr

That seems possible. Take for instance the Musellea lasiocarpas that are growing in Vietnam. If a plant got pollinated enough, eventually there might be one or two seeds that would actually germinate without cold stratification, then those seeds would produce plants that in turn would have more seeds that didn't need any cold. A kind of evolution. Is that kinda what you mean?

jpfloors

That would be one way of it happening. But was more saying if a seed was taken from it's natural atmosphere, say from India and was planted in different conditions than from where it originated, if eventually the seed would force itself to germinate by it's "genetic requirements" being overridden from it's will to grow.

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Tropicallvr

I don't know, but if there would be an argument against that working it would be Musa ingens. I wish someone would override the requirments of that damn seed.
I look at it like every seed has a natural climate match, and you just got to try to match it when you germinate the seed.

Sodak

Iv'e got 16 Musa Laterita sprouts up now. I sowed about 110 seeds. Looks like I might need to get rid of a few of them later on; I won't have space for them all. Waaaay too many bananas!