Re: germination guide
 

Hello,
first I'm sorry for my english. I am glad to join this forum. I want to grow musa sikkimensis Darjeeling Banana in container from the seed. I try germinate musa acuminata, but then I collect a litlle information about Banana seeds germination and it does not work. Now I read this forum and see the video (Thanks to Erlend), but I am still not sure, that it's works to me... If I'll do all like in the video, can I hope successful germination? Maybe anyone try banana seeds in wet bog moss germination?
Respect! ;)

Egle

Re: germination guide
 

Welcome Egle, I believe that you will find good results using Erlands method. I have some banana seeds in wet peat moss now. It may be too soon to say if it works or not, but I am hopeful for success.
It is a good idea. Good Luck!

Re: germination guide
 

Thank yuo! I hope too, that this method with wet peat moss will be a success. I''ll be waiting for your results. Please tell me, how do you germinate banana seeds in wet peat moss: container, temperatur, etc?

Re: germination guide
 

Cassie, saw your post while reading this thread. Btw Ensete's don't pup and that's what made me like them - clean growth habit. This is the plant which made me fall in love in 'naners. I didn't like them in the past even though M'sia is full of them everywhere. I kinda didn't like the messy unkempt clumping of the Musa till now.

E superbum are not hard to germinate. The plant in the pix was from a batch of old sds I bought off the net. I had 3 out of 10 come up in approx 18 days. This plant was germinated on New Year's day, 1.01.08. Pix taken 24.01.09. This chap is 1 yr old now. It got too big for its pot so I just had it transferred to my nursery last week. I had to cut off most of its leaves otherwise, it looks real good. With heavy watering and feeding, it gave me 1 new leaf every day! So far this is still my favorite among all the 'naners I have grown. The leaf arrangement lives up to its common name of Bird's Nest Banana. :ha:

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Wow nice. Where can I get one them them. The cigar not the superbum!

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Pheww... and I thought you were after my 'bum....:ha::ha::ha:

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I'm sure your bum is super but I'll just stick with an Oliva Series G a few times a year.

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Sorry for the delay in replying, Tog. The ensetes I found growing near here were on someone else's property, but I had been watching them for pups ready to introduce myself, and beg or buy one. But in the meantime I found out that they don't pup and that I had been wasting my time! lol! I also like their clean non-pupping lines but initially I thought they had been trimmed. So when they have fruited, the plant is cut down and the area is replanted with seedlings - am I right? I had been thinking of them for landscape planting to enhance the front of the house, but if I have to replace them regularly I might think again - although I do like them! So many gorgeous plants - so little space!

Gold3nku5h - I haven't tried any from seed yet - just thinking about it.

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Hey Cassie,

I think the effort to replant them is worth it and I have been told their life span is much longer than Musa's.

This is the first time I am into Ensete's and I really love them. I have been germinating the E glaucum, E livingstonianum and E ventricosum from sds which I buy basically from rarepalmseeds. So far I have about 100+ sdlgs in total of which I am using for the landscaping of my nursery.

Call me crazy, but I really like them. Also, over here in the tropical clime, they do much better than the Musa's. The E superbum have been without fail giving me 1 new leaf every day! I have yet to encounter a 'naner that does that.

I just got in 1,000sds of the Thai Ensete sp Kluay Pa and am expecting 500sds of the E perriei.

Truly, it's worth the replanting, go for it! :02:

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A new leaf each day? That's incredible!

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Brent, so far the E superbum is my No.1 in growth. My 5 mth old E livingstonianum is giving me 1 new leaf every 2 days which is pretty good. All my other musa's put up a new leaf once every 3-3.5 days. So Ensete's rocks!:goteam:

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Tog - Ensete Superbum is my favourite and I think I have to go for some seeds. Heaven knows where I'll plant them!

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Hey Cassie, I am expecting to get at least 300sds in the next 2 months from a seed guy. I can give you a bunch. How many do you want? Can you receive them by mail?

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Hi,
if anyone try to soak the M. sikkimensis seeds in smoke primer?

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I believe that Sikkimensis ih hard to germinate anyway.
:woohoonaner:

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Musa sikkimensis.........? :ha: I have 2 different batches of the 2 varieties for 1 year and more now, sitting pretty and not saying hello! :ha::ha::ha: Best of luck!:ha:

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Same with me for sikkimensis, I had 2 Darjeeling giants come up within a month last October from a batch of 3 types(reg, daj giant and red form). E. Glaucum was very easy with a high success rate. Have a few more varieties just started. All were/are on a heat mat I use for tomato seedlings as well.

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Thank you, Tog! :nanadrink:
Well, I'm incurable optimist and I hope that my M.sikkimensis will say Hello to me before it turn one year :ha:

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I've been looking for a guide specific to Musa sikkimensis since I've ordered about 100 seeds. I respect Tropicallvr's efforts, but I prefer having data to support broad statements. There are also a lot of comments indicating "variable" results. I hunted around for individual reports with germination conditions and found some on another website. Here is a tabular summary. Maybe this would be a good format for all to contribute to? I welcome praise and flames!

Attached is the table in .pdf format. Let me know if you want the original Excel file.

akebono

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Interesting study, and tahnks for all the hard work, it must have taken you ages. I think, though, germination depends a lot on freshness of seeds, which is something that is purely dependant on the supplier of the seed and their honesty about the provenance of that seed. This is something that we cannot measure or control. There are a lot of suppliers of sikkimensis seeds and they all seem to be selling old, unviable seed. If I could find one reliable source I would grab at the chance because I'm desperate for a sikkimensis.

Also hypochlorite and chlorine bleach are the same, just a small thing.

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Agree with you 100% James, you are totally rite, in fact so right if you were to go run for Mayor, I will come and vote for you! :ha:

I will probably string all of the few hundred sds into a chain and hang it near my germn table as a warning for all the bloody sds who do not want to sprout.

I am still on the look out for really good newly harvested ones, you will be the first to get them from me. Only that you will have to come here and vote for me in case I decide to run for mayor.....k? :ha:

Re: germination guide
 

Thanks for the constructive comments!

It took just a few hours ... it takes me longer to shop for seeds than it does to produce a "metastudy" like this one. There are a few things wrong with the study and the reporting, one of which you picked up on, hypochlorite/chlorine bleach. I'll blame that on being tired, because I was finishing up near midnight. More fundamental is that these are reports, mostly of only a just a few seeds of unknown source and age. There is a lot of missing information.

Our goal as a community should be to expand on what I've done. Please send in your latest results! If we report the vendor as part of the table maybe we can identify the ones providing fresh or properly handled seed. A little more openness from the vendors would be helpful. The garden seed packets from one of my local discount big-box stores has harvest date printed on the outside of the envelope. (Kudos to Frosthardy Palms for posting their harvest dates!)

-akebono

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I've set up a survey form that could help with collecting the data. I'll put up the results each month or so. The survey is anonymous. Tog, you said that you have a lot of non-germinating seeds. Your input is important too!

Click Here to take survey.

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Again, good job! I've only had a brief look, but is there a space to put supplier of the seed?

Could it be expanded to include other species? This would be very useful indeed and prevent a lot of wasted money, I'm sure.

Re: germination guide
 

Found this link, people may find it useful. I'm going to try the concentrated sulphuric acid scarification. Also the warm part of the cycle is a lot shorter than I first thought.

CHAPTER 49. MUSACEAE

have a read

Re: germination guide
 

jmoore,

The supplier is question #3. I used "source" because people might be sharing seed and not know who collected the seed originally. I could also create duplicate surveys for other species. Another service might suit our needs better, so let's see how it goes for this one species first.

-akebono

Re: germination guide
 

Okay, I've started a second survey based on feedback from those on the forum and outside. The original survey will close. Please click on this link to fill out the survey. The survey will close August 14, 2009. I'll incorporate the responses from the old survey into the new one.

Differences:
multiple species
dormancy and freshness
allows further description of germination conditions
see summary of responses from previous users

-akebono

Re: germination guide
 

Its awfully quiet in here ...
"Echo, cho, ho, o ..."

I've printed out the survey as a .pdf so that you can see what you're getting into or want to borrow ideas. The .pdf will last longer than the online survey.

-akebono

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Looks like I ll have to get heat mat after all :)
:woohoonaner:

Re: germination guide
 

I don't know that it's necessary. I've seen a couple of reports with germination at 25 C. Most try warmer temperatures with some cycling between low and high. I have a set sitting out at about 23 C just to compare with the ones I have experience swings between 25 and 37.

7 days and counting!

-akebono

Re: germination guide
 

akebono

I tried to fill out a survey, but it says it's closed. Looked at the .pdf, but I can't fill it out electronically.

Re: germination guide
 

The one in post #77 should work. Here is the url in plain text, mySurveyLab - Next Generation On-line Survey System . I closed the one on surveymonkey because it didn't let me have 11 questions.

-akebono

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That one doesn't work either :waving:

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please try again. I changed some settings. Thanks!

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All,

Attached as a PDF are my results for for the past 2 months. Best case 27% germination. Gee, I wonder how old my seeds are?

-akebono

Re: germination guide
 

How long did you soak them for?

I've just received 100 sikkimensis and 100 daj giant from banana tree. Half are soaking, half are in the fridge for a week.

Also received 90 sikkimensis seeds from a different source - same treatment.

20+% is really good, I shouldn't be disappointed with that.

Re: germination guide
 

Only about 30 minutes total. Using 60 mL dry whatever (soil, pellets, ...) and 40 mL water assures that the seeds stay moist (if not wet). I was using the hot water soak to get rid of excess pulp clinging to the seeds.

Not sure what I'll try next - I only need one to survive planting! I don't have 16 friends that are 'nanners!

-akebono

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Just went to watch Erlands Video only to find it's been removed.

Not seen a post from him in a while either.

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It was a very good video, still, maybe he's re-doing that dreadful euro disco soundtrack :-))

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I thought I'd share some of my successes and failures with banana seed germination I've had this summer.

I've tried to germinate the following:
Sikkimensis x 200
sikkimensis 'manipur' x 50
ornata x 50
itinerans x 20
darjeeling giant x 120 (100 bought from one source were dud) (20 purchased from a different source excellent germination)
formosana x 50

I used the same technique for all of them, with possibly one or two exceptions. This is the technique I used:
1. soak in boiled and cooled water for 6 days (changing water every day)
2. soak in 20ml/l nitrozyme solution for 24 hours
3. place seeds in vermiculite contained in a plastic food saver with lid (vermiculite was wetted and then drained)
4. place sealed container in a heated propagator at 32 degress for 12 hours then removed at night and left at room temperature (whatever that may be at the time) for a further 12 hours.

with all of the species mentioned above there has been sign of germination after 7 days (ie the micropylar plug lifting and the beginnings of a sprout showing)

6. once germination has started transfer to a well drained compost and keep at a constant temperature of 32 degrees until sprout shows, usually a further 2 weeks or so.

The one exception is that I kept my 50 formosana seeds in the fridge for 7 days before soaking and out of 50 I got close to 30 plants.

I can't say how fresh or not the seed was, but I will say that most seed suppliers indicate whether a seed batch is 'new'. These are the ones I went for when buying.

I hope this is of some use to someone somewhere.

Re: germination guide
 

I've germinated Musa seed many times. Since you may have gotten them from a seed catalog, or you do not know how fresh they are; and also they do take some time to sprout, I always score the seed whether fresh or not. This way , if they are viable, they sprout within a weeks time. Simply take a metal fingernail file, and file ONE tiny cut through the hard outer shell until you just barely see the white meat inside. Only enough to permit some moisture into the interior of the seed. Then soak overnight and pot them up right below the surface with the "bellybutton" top side up. Roots will develop around the outer 'ring' of the bellybutton, and the shoot will come from the center. Keep evenly moist but not soaking wet. Ive used many different soil mixes, doesnt seem to matter, its the amount of water that is crucial. Of course, you should provide warmth and bright light. Ive found this way very successful. If you think about it, nature has made it possible for these seed to germinate simply by being passed through an animals digestive track,(permiting easy germination from the acids in their stomachs to breakdown some of the hard shell), and then dropped to the ground and sprout themselves without any 'help' from man.

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Hi varig8!

Your post is the best of this Thread because Your method is simple and hopeful. I will try this way... intently.

Re: germination guide
 

I should mention that if the seed is very old; when you break through the hard outer shell to the interior, if it is not viable, you will not see any 'white meat'-it will just be empty and full of dust! Ive also heard that some types of seed will sink if they are viable and float if not, but I dont think this holds true with all Musa seed.

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It means that they don't need light to germinate, right?
Also, exactly how hot(Degrees Fahrenheit or Celsius, whatever) is 'too hot'?

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From what I see of bananas in the wild, I think they are meant to have their seeds dispersed by animals. The banana fruit is meant to be eaten by fruit bats, monkeys, birds, squirrels. The seeds would then go through the acid stomach, digestive enzymes, gut bacteria (all in the warm body of the animal), and then a few hours later, be deposited in a pile of dung. Maybe mimicking these conditions would help them germinate?

Maybe you can eat the seeds with a banana and then poop in your garden?

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Good idea.I'm sure someone will try it

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thai is so wrong..........

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Funny you should mention that, I've just ordered some animal rennet to try a very similar experiment. I'm not sure rennet has the correct enzymes, but I'm going to give it a go. I'll report back.

Re: Germination guide