Gabe15

For most Musa seeds, if they are fresh or soaked in water for a few days prior to cutting, the seeds will cut easily with a scalpel. If they are dry, I use tweezers to hold down the seed while I spear the seed next to the micropyle with the tip of the scalpel, once its in deep, I press down on one side to form a crack in the seed and it usually splits nicely and the embryo either falls out or is easily dug out.

For Ensete, Musella, Musa ingens and other thick shelled species, I haven't found a good reliable way yet, but Frank seems to have a good idea with the vice clamp, I bet that would make opening those types really easy.

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mrbungalow

Well,

Tried this yesterday, and now some more or less sterile embryos are lying on banana multiplication medium.

In sikkimensis I couldn't even find the embryos, all that came out of the seeds was white powder. So no sikkimensis are tested this way.

A little more easy with ensete ventricosum. There I could find the embryos pretty easy. I guess time will show if it works.

How long should I give them?

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Gabe15

You should know whether they are growing or not in 2-4days. They will first begin to swell and after a week or so you may start to see the beginning of a leaves and a root. Can you post some pictures of your cultures?

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microfarmer

Do you have these on a heat cycle like normal seed germination, or a steady setting? I'm thinking about 85 degrees?

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mrbungalow

I keep them in constant 27 degrees C, as I've heard this is the ideal temp. for cell-activity in most musa species. I wouild think this is the naked embryo and doesn't contain the other seed structures that inhibit germination. I doubt changing temps is neither necessary or ideal for getting cells in an embryo to start dividing. (Gabe might know more)

Gabe, will post pics soon! Holding my breath to see what will happen!

Regards
Erlend

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Gabe15

As long as they are not in a cold room, they will be fine, temperature does not matter much, just keep them somewhat warm.

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marksbananas

I ma after some advice what inside the seed is the embryo ?

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Chironex

Frank, how do you keep contamination out of the embryo when using this method? Do you sterilize the vise first? Is it inside of the hood? I have a small wooden vise that is used for seal stamp carving (Chinese seals) if I can find it, I may use that under the hood since it is very small, already has a V groove to hold the seed, and uses a small screw to keep from over-cracking the seed. I would think a small C clamp might also be good since it can be sterilized easily. I might also get some fine tipped needlenose pliers to pull apart the seed hull pieces once they crack. Another idea would be to use a rotary tool (Dremel) with a fine saw blade - this might be where the vise would come in handy.

So far no contamination in the 5 embryo rescues I have going. Looks like the embryos are swelling some, but they have only been in culture since 10/5.

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Scot


"Grow 'em if ya got 'em!"

Chironex

I never thought of using the spear technique, I have been trying to use the scalpel like a steak knife. I will have to try your method, but I also think the seed cracking vise has some merit. Thanks Frank and Gabe for the ideas.

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Scot


"Grow 'em if ya got 'em!"

Chironex

Well, the ingens embryo has contamination on the latest one that I attempted to rescue. I threw caution to the wind, opened the jar and sprayed it with Physan 20 to see if I can halt the contamination. We will see if that works.
I am going to wait on any further embryo rescue attempts until I can make some Nitsch & Nitsch medium modified for embryo rescue specifically. I am also going to use sterile coconut water and activated charcoal to see if I can get the endogenous contaminants out of the embryos. Could sterilize with silver nitrate too, might try it.

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Scot


"Grow 'em if ya got 'em!"