Bananas.org

Welcome to the Bananas.org forums.

You're currently viewing our message boards as a guest which gives you limited access to participate in discussions and access our other features such as our wiki and photo gallery. By joining our community, you'll have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload photos, and access many other special features. Registration is fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Go Back   Bananas.org > Banana Forum > Tissue Culturing & Other Propagation Techniques of Banana Plants
The Facebook Platform
Register Photo Gallery Classifieds Wiki Chat Map Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Tissue Culturing & Other Propagation Techniques of Banana Plants This forum is for discussing propagation techniques of banana plants. Tissue culturing is the popular process of creating clones from a source plant. There are other techniques to propagate banana plants however, such as nicking corms or dividing corms. Learn more inside.


Members currently in the chatroom: 0
The most chatters online in one day was 17, 09-06-2009.
No one is currently using the chat.

Reply   Email this Page Email this Page
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-27-2008, 03:55 AM   #1 (permalink)
 
asacomm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 786
BananaBucks : 257,861
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 225 Times
Was Thanked 585 Times in 205 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
Default Is there any difference of cold hardiness etc. between TC and sucker pup?

I think I have ever heard that TC plant is less hardy than sucker pup.
In fact it seems to me that TC D.Orinoco and Brazilian did not show the
cold hardiness as it should have done, and it died and rot to its corm even
under the eaves where no frost fell. Here is said to be zone 9b and this kind
of thing could not happen. But it happened.
Is there any difference between TC and sucker pup?
asacomm is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To asacomm

Join Bananas.org Today!

Are you a banana plant enthusiast? Then we hope you will join the community. You will gain access to post, create threads, private message, upload images, join groups and more.

Bananas.org is owned and operated by fellow banana plant enthusiasts. We strive to offer a non-commercial community to learn and share information. Receive all three issues from Volume 1 of Bananas Magazine with your membership:
   

Join Bananas.org Today! - Click Here


Sponsors

Old 03-27-2008, 08:16 AM   #2 (permalink)
 
musa_monkey's Avatar
 
Location: Burnham, Bucks, UK
Zone: 8
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 217
BananaBucks : 20,877
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 53 Times
Was Thanked 143 Times in 71 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
Hiya Re: Is there any difference of cold hardiness etc. between TC and sucker pup?

That's an interesting question.
If you think about it a sucker pup grows exposed to all the elements and has time to learn to cope with weather, temperature and humidity variations etc.

A TC pup is grown in sterile conditions so has to experience shock once exposed to the elements no matter how carefully it is introduced to the real world.

I suspect therefore that a sucker pup is probably more hardy however proving it is another matter altogether !
musa_monkey is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To musa_monkey
Old 03-27-2008, 08:30 AM   #3 (permalink)
Banana Nut
 
bencelest's Avatar
 
Location: California Zone 9
Zone: 9
Name: Benny
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,056
BananaBucks : 128,537
Feedback: 3 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 15 Times
Was Thanked 1,381 Times in 634 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
Send a message via AIM to bencelest
Default Re: Is there any difference of cold hardiness etc. between TC and sucker pup?

Everything should be done gradual. Exposing a TC pup to a very cold temperature w/o acclimating it first is suicidal. A sucker pup that was borne outside the house has been acclimated and should be OK.
__________________
Banana Nut
bencelest is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To bencelest
Old 03-27-2008, 08:36 AM   #4 (permalink)
 
musa_monkey's Avatar
 
Location: Burnham, Bucks, UK
Zone: 8
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 217
BananaBucks : 20,877
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 53 Times
Was Thanked 143 Times in 71 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
Default Re: Is there any difference of cold hardiness etc. between TC and sucker pup?

Of course thats a given for experienced growers
but no matter how slowly you expose the TC pup to the world it will never see the sheer range and diversity of climatic conditions and elements that a natural sucker pup has grown up with in its natural environment
Hence the interesting question from asacomm
musa_monkey is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To musa_monkey
Old 03-27-2008, 10:20 AM   #5 (permalink)
Freezing member
 
mrbungalow's Avatar
 
Location: Bergen, Norway
Zone: 8
Name: Erlend
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 598
BananaBucks : 160,970
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 14 Times
Was Thanked 154 Times in 76 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 3 Times
Default Re: Is there any difference of cold hardiness etc. between TC and sucker pup?

In my experience: TC-plants need a longer time than suckers to develop resistance to the elements (sunshine, cold, heat, etc.) But when they are hardened off and settled in, I can't spot any difference.

An example: I had to baby a TC Musa Basjoo with minimal roots for about 6 months before it started acting "normal", and this was inside a greenhouse! Now it's growing fine, and will go outside in a month.

To turn the question around a little bit: Wich cultivars you grow have not been Tissue Cultured at some period in time? And what mass produced cultivars for sale at garden centres and department stores are not TC plants??
__________________
mrbungalow is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To mrbungalow
Sponsors

Old 03-27-2008, 10:44 AM   #6 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
JoeReal's Avatar
 
Location: Davis, California USDA zone 9
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,034
BananaBucks : 278,993
Feedback: 1 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 108 Times
Was Thanked 424 Times in 201 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 16 Times
Default Re: Is there any difference of cold hardiness etc. between TC and sucker pup?

Agreed. TC plantlets of the same height as sucker pups are never as hardy in all counts. Break the pseudostem of a newly acquired TC plantlet in half, most likely it will not grow back. Break the sucker pup's pseudostem in half, it grows back with a vengeance.
JoeReal is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To JoeReal
Old 03-27-2008, 12:01 PM   #7 (permalink)
Freezing member
 
mrbungalow's Avatar
 
Location: Bergen, Norway
Zone: 8
Name: Erlend
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 598
BananaBucks : 160,970
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 14 Times
Was Thanked 154 Times in 76 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 3 Times
Default Re: Is there any difference of cold hardiness etc. between TC and sucker pup?

Also; Suckers usually have a "lunchbox" with them, - a piece of corm.

TC plants of the same heights have minimal corms and underdeveloped root-system. But leave them in pots for a few months, and they will eventually gain hardiness.
__________________
mrbungalow is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To mrbungalow
Old 03-27-2008, 12:34 PM   #8 (permalink)
Banana Nut
 
bencelest's Avatar
 
Location: California Zone 9
Zone: 9
Name: Benny
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,056
BananaBucks : 128,537
Feedback: 3 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 15 Times
Was Thanked 1,381 Times in 634 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
Send a message via AIM to bencelest
Default Re: Is there any difference of cold hardiness etc. between TC and sucker pup?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeReal View Post
Agreed. TC plantlets of the same height as sucker pups are never as hardy in all counts. Break the pseudostem of a newly acquired TC plantlet in half, most likely it will not grow back. Break the sucker pup's pseudostem in half, it grows back with a vengeance.
This is something to think about!
__________________
Banana Nut
bencelest is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To bencelest
Old 04-01-2008, 06:52 AM   #9 (permalink)
Northern Tropics
 
sandy0225's Avatar
 
Location: Muncie, Indiana zone 5
Zone: zone 5
Name: Sandy
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,717
BananaBucks : 234,921
Feedback: 31 / 97%
Said "Thanks" 38 Times
Was Thanked 1,782 Times in 681 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 9 Times
Default Re: Is there any difference of cold hardiness etc. between TC and sucker pup?

I think the problem is that the tc's as was said don't have that reserve to fall back on. So you do have to be more careful with them at first because if you overwater, don't fertilize properly, etc, it affects the tc plants more. If you rot the roots, they don't have anything to live on while they grow some new ones like a corm plant does. Even at the same height, say 12" they don't have the corm mass that the pups have. Does that mean that one is better than the other? no, it's just like starting something from seed. If you treat them as seedlings and baby them a little bit, by two feet tall, you really can't tell any difference in their sturdiness.
I appreciate that we can get tc plants though, because it sure would be difficult to get pups of the quantity that we can get tc plants. Some of these bananas would be super rare I'd imagine without it.
__________________
Sandy Burrell



Northern Tropics Greenhouse
1501 East Fuson Road
Muncie, IN 47302
www.northerntropics.com


specializing in bananas, heirloom tomatoes and water gardening plants~
check out our new online store at our website!
sandy0225 is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To sandy0225
Old 04-13-2008, 02:28 AM   #10 (permalink)
 
asacomm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 786
BananaBucks : 257,861
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 225 Times
Was Thanked 585 Times in 205 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
Default Re: Is there any difference of cold hardiness etc. between TC and sucker pup?

In addition to D.Orinoco and D.Brazilian, Rajapuri and Williams hybrid finally
died even with winter protections, but Cardaba survived. All of them were TC
plants except Cardaba which was from pup.

Here is considered to be in zone 9b although there were 2 nights of 25F.
But all TC plants could not overwinter despite pup of Cardaba survived.
TC plants and pups should be DNA wise exactly the same, but it seems to me
that something is different in cold hardiness as pups have experienced the
cold winter, while TC plant faced their first winter. That might make a difference
in cold hardiness.
asacomm is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To asacomm
Old 04-13-2008, 03:04 AM   #11 (permalink)
Mechwarrior
 
STEELVIPER's Avatar
 
Location: Riverside,CA
Zone: 9B
Name: Mark
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 724
BananaBucks : 47,183
Feedback: 2 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 44 Times
Was Thanked 88 Times in 53 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 169 Times
Send a message via Yahoo to STEELVIPER
Default Re: Is there any difference of cold hardiness etc. between TC and sucker pup?

What about moisture? Cold +wet = rot. How was the rain fall for you this winter? What kind of protection did you use? Did you remove the protection you provided your plants to let them dry out?
__________________



STEELVIPER is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To STEELVIPER
Old 04-13-2008, 04:05 AM   #12 (permalink)
 
asacomm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 786
BananaBucks : 257,861
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 225 Times
Was Thanked 585 Times in 205 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
Default Re: Is there any difference of cold hardiness etc. between TC and sucker pup?

Hi Mark,
1. Moisture outside was average about 30% or so.
2. Rainfall in the winter was relatively much.
3. Winter protection by straw mats.
4. When the protection was removed, the pstem had been already rotten.

Thanx for your comment.
asacomm is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To asacomm
Old 04-13-2008, 09:58 PM   #13 (permalink)
 
Musamania's Avatar
 
Location: In de hot Desert
Zone: 8
Name: Musamania
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 20
BananaBucks : 1,774
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 0 Times
Was Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
Default Re: Is there any difference of cold hardiness etc. between TC and sucker pup?

Any difference noted in fruiting, or quality of fruit...TC vs natural division? I was into Hosta twenty-something years ago. Grew over 230 cultivars...NONE from TC. Hosta were notoriously unstable from TC at that time, and many of the TC releases did not do justice to the stock from "pups". But, Hosta are prone to "sport". TC screening may have improved big time,..in the long interim? How stable are Musa & Ensete..?
Musamania is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To Musamania
Old 04-18-2008, 09:42 PM   #14 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Location: NC
Zone: 8
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 464
BananaBucks : 48,801
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 22 Times
Was Thanked 69 Times in 50 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
Default Re: Is there any difference of cold hardiness etc. between TC and sucker pup?

My orinoco TC grew way faster than all of my pups have grown.
modenacart is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To modenacart
Old 04-18-2008, 11:14 PM   #15 (permalink)
 
Musamania's Avatar
 
Location: In de hot Desert
Zone: 8
Name: Musamania
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 20
BananaBucks : 1,774
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 0 Times
Was Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
Pinwheel Re: Is there any difference of cold hardiness etc. between TC and sucker pup?

Appreciated your comment. Good tissue-cultured stock could certainly eliminate virus & pathogens that might come from natural divisions, resulting in a better garden performance. I only question the "selection process" that allows certain plants to be released from TC. As for anything pertaining to Musa, Ensete, etc,.....I just don't know. Thanks for the input.
Musamania is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To Musamania
Old 04-18-2008, 11:24 PM   #16 (permalink)
 
Musamania's Avatar
 
Location: In de hot Desert
Zone: 8
Name: Musamania
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 20
BananaBucks : 1,774
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 0 Times
Was Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
Bananas Brindando Re: Is there any difference of cold hardiness etc. between TC and sucker pup?

By the way....Love your chicken house. Looks very well designed. Once upon a tyme, I bred Old English Bantams in WA,..and had Golden Sebrights in GA. Off the subject....but I liked the pics. You did NOT say what bred of Chix that you have: What genera of Banana...?
Musamania is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To Musamania

Join Bananas.org Today!

Are you a banana plant enthusiast? Then we hope you will join the community. You will gain access to post, create threads, private message, upload images, join groups and more.

Bananas.org is owned and operated by fellow banana plant enthusiasts. We strive to offer a non-commercial community to learn and share information. Receive all three issues from Volume 1 of Bananas Magazine with your membership:
   

Join Bananas.org Today! - Click Here


Sponsors

Old 04-19-2008, 07:43 AM   #17 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Location: NC
Zone: 8
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 464
BananaBucks : 48,801
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 22 Times
Was Thanked 69 Times in 50 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
Default Re: Is there any difference of cold hardiness etc. between TC and sucker pup?

Thanks for the comments on the chicken house. If you like that then go to Chicken Blog. My wife is keep a log of them. That should answer you questions about which breed and such. Keeping the chicks is a lot of fun.

About TC, I think you are right about it being luck of the draw. I had two that grew really well, but I killed the other two by putting them in the sun way to soon.

The Orinoco TC is only one season old and its as taller than one group of unknown bananas and as tall as another group of unknown banana that have been growing for three years. The two groups of unknown are suspected to be either ice cream or orinoco. The group its taller than I have overwintered in the ground, the group its as tall as I overwinter under the house, along with the TC orinoco.

Other pups I planted last year were goldfinger, saba and guay namwha. The orinoco TC grew way faster then those did and those pups had very nice corms on them when I planted them.
modenacart is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To modenacart
Old 04-19-2008, 09:31 AM   #18 (permalink)
Member
 
Tropicallvr's Avatar
 
Name: Kyle
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,032
BananaBucks : 276,591
Feedback: 6 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 230 Times
Was Thanked 382 Times in 155 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 14 Times
Default Re: Is there any difference of cold hardiness etc. between TC and sucker pup?

I had some smaller seedlings. A couple I left outside in the greenhouse, and a couple I kept inside(all same species) all year just to make sure I had some that survived. Then the next year since they all survived I left them all outside in the greenhouse. The winter was a little more severe that second year and it seemed like the ones that had been left outside the previous year, and had been "hardened off" fared alot better.
Tropicallvr is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To Tropicallvr
Old 04-19-2008, 09:14 PM   #19 (permalink)
 
Musamania's Avatar
 
Location: In de hot Desert
Zone: 8
Name: Musamania
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 20
BananaBucks : 1,774
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 0 Times
Was Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
Pinwheel Re: Is there any difference of cold hardiness etc. between TC and sucker pup?

But,...does anyone have TC bananas that have fruited...? If so,..does the fruit always appear to be identical to the natural divisions? I don't know how long nanners have been tissue cultured. ?
Musamania is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To Musamania
Reply   Email this Page Email this Page






Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Zone 6 hardiness 2pugdogs Cold Hardy Bananas 9 02-26-2008 07:46 PM
what is the difference ? Lodewijkp Main Banana Discussion 2 12-21-2007 09:25 AM
Difference in pups? Bamboo Conne'iseur Main Banana Discussion 2 09-14-2007 09:29 PM
Difference flower royal purple/velutina YohanBelgium Banana Identification 5 09-13-2007 01:52 AM
Golden Lotus - Cold Hardiness BobbyinNY Main Banana Discussion 4 10-20-2005 01:25 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:07 PM.





Follow us:
Twitter YouTube

All content © Bananas.org & the respective author.