natedogg1026

Was hoping some of you would share your thoughts and opinions on tissue culture plants vs. pups. Thanx in advance.-Nate

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Banana's are a safe addiction. Right?Maybe I need classes.

Richard

Gabe recently gave us some great info on this topic, starting with post #12 in this thread: http://www.bananas.org/f16/tissue-cu...html#post39658

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natedogg1026

Thanx Richard. I figured this had been discussed and I missed it.

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Banana's are a safe addiction. Right?Maybe I need classes.

Gabe15

Well I can add little more info directly to TC vs. pups.

I really can't think of any disadvantages of TC plants. Some hobby growers don't like them because they are "harder" to grow, but this is often due to the fact that they are grown in low light levels in small containers and really stretch out and become weak, this is the fault of whoever is growing them and selling them, not in the plants themselves. Its comparable to separating a pup that is very small, it would too be hard to grow. However, even if you get really really tiny TC plants, right out of the test tube, they are actually quite easy to grow if you know how to care for them. Also, TC plants have been shown to grow faster, fruit earlier and produce larger bunches than suckers grown in the same (optimal) conditions, but this is really a minor gain in the big scheme of things. I would say though that suckers are usually easier for the inexperienced hobby grower to handle, since they are usually separated when of decent size and can handle more abuse.

There however serious disadvantages to using suckers in some situations. The main one being that with so many virulent banana pathogens out there today, often the only way to control them is to make sure you are planting clean plants. TC plants can be tested easily for diseases, all you need to do is test an explant early on in the micropropagation, and if its clean you will know that all of the clones of that plant will be clean too (which ends up being thousands of plants). Often growers will accept plants from neighbors and other farmers, although its very kind, it is a serious vector of banana pathogens. It may not mean much the hobbyist growing a couple basjoos in North America, but for the small scale farmer who is depending on their banana field for food and money, it is vital that they have clean plants and that their neighbors have clean plants as well. Alternatively, if a lab doesn't test for viruses in the TC plants, and there is one present, they could potentially distribute mass quantities of infected plants.

So, in both cases, there are advantages as disadvantages, both need special care and attention to avoid problems. In my experience, it doesn't matter, as long as its true to type. After just a couple months of solid growth you can't even tell the difference, and by the time they are mature there truly is no difference.

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Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties.

natedogg1026

As always, thank you for your insight Gabe. You are very well respected here.

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Banana's are a safe addiction. Right?Maybe I need classes.

modenacart

The TC I had of an orinoco grew way faster than the pup I had of the same type.

griphuz

Still I hear (maybe only rumors, I can't scientifically proove them) stings about TC basjoo being less strong/cold hardy than norma basjoo, and the same for Musella's.
I did experience this overwintering a non-TC Musella several winters outside, not suceeding this with TC Musella's from different sources. Might be coincidence,...but still remarkable.

There is one major flaw to TC though,....it's very hard to prop Musa 'AeAe' for example,...variegated plants seem to have difficulties, resulting either in full green plants, of fully white plants that won't survive because of the lack of chlorophylle.
Kind regards,
Remko.

gadget

journal article on tc vs suckers
http://www.jtropag.in/index.php/ojs/.../viewFile/10/5

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Last edited by gadget : 08-28-2008 at 12:30 AM.

Patty in Wisc

I'm glad I found this -- thanks Gabe. For 2 years I always heard that pups grow faster & better.

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Patty in Wisc has sadly passed away 9/05/11. We will miss you Patty.

Chironex

I look at this as an unsolved mystery or limitation, but sooner or later it will be able to be done readily. As for the cold hardiness issue with the Musella, my guess is that a plant at the same level of development should have nearly the same hardiness. Too often judgments are made based upon comparisons that may unintentionally omit information vital to a fair conclusion.

I have also been reading about some methods of variegation induction that are viable and will remain true to type.

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Scot

Worm_Farmer

I can say my TC plants grow faster and make nice root ball way before my pups. This year I will really be able to see how well my pups grow out.

I also like to get TC plants for that I know they are clean and sterile.

Very good info Gabe, Thanks!

griphuz

Don't get me wrong: I'm not against TC at all

But,...what about for example microrrhiza living symbiotic on the roots of plants? From what I understand some are actually contained within the seeds of a species. Some get transferred from the motherplant to the offspring in other ways.
Would there be any need, and if so, any possibility to transfer microrrhiza to the roots of sterile TC plants to e.g. improve nutrient uptake and resistance to disease?
Kind regards,
Remko.

Chironex

I am inoculating several plantlets with endomycorrhizal fungi and also beneficial bacteria. It is important to note that endo- vs. ecto- makes a difference. Endo is good for bananas. I am combining this with seaweed extract as a foliar spray, too.

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Scot

griphuz

Hi Scot, that's very interesting! Where did you get those, and how do you know which ones are beneficial and which ones are not? Or are they all generally 'good'?
Regards,
Remko.

Chironex

I bought them at a Hydroponics store here in Las Vegas. Both are produced in Canada by Advanced Nutrients under the labels "Dr Hornby's" - "Tarantula" (bacteria) and "Piranha" (mycorrhizal fungi). Tel 800-640-9605 website: Hydroponics | Advanced Nutrients | Hydroponic Gardening This is a great site with lots of info. I recommend downloading their free special report. It contains lots of very relavant and useful information on fertilizers, lighting, temps, CO2 levels, etc. I found it by accident, but am sure happy that I did.

'Piranha' has 8 species of trichoderma fungi and 16 species of endo and ecto mycorrhizal fungi. Beneficial fungi can expand root mass up to 700% and also the fungi excrete chemicals that dissolve mineral nutrients (increasing their usability), absorb water and make soil more porous.

'Tarantula' is a bacterial blend of 57 microorganisms, with 1.4 billion colony forming units per gram. It contains bacillus, streptomycetes, Actinomycetes and Pseudomonas to promote plant growth. They form a symbiotic relationship with the plants root zone in the rhizosphere. These help plants deal with stress. It works with Piranha to enhance overall root growth by an additional 25% over Piranha alone.

Over the last 460 million years, beneicial soil microorganisms have developed a symbiotic relationship with plants. When a plant produces photosynthetic compounds, it releases carbon exudates into the soil, which microorganisms utilize as a good food source. The microbes in the rhizosphere surround the root to get at this food source. In turn, the microorganisms, recycle nutrients, improve the surrounding soil structure and solubilize minerals for plant availability.
Also, the bacteria provide other benefits, to both the soil and the plant. Specifically, the microbes will minimize nutrient leaching, aid in nutrient cycling and absorption, improve soil structure, solubilize minerals (including phosphorous) for plant availability, enhance seed germination, stimulate root growth and produce natural plant growth hormones.

Groups of bacteria and their specific benefits:
Bacilius and Paenibavillus (bacteria)
-Decompose organic matter and pesticide residues
-Enhance plant growth
-Increase nutrient cycling/solubilize minerals
-Produce natural plant growth hormones
-Improve soil aggregation

Pseudomonas
-Produce natural plant growth hormones
-Enhance seed germination and viability of emerging seedlings
-Solubilize phosphorous

Azotobacter
-Converts atmospheric nitrogen to plant-available nitrogen

Streptomycetes (Actinomycetes)
-Decompose organic matter

These are the claims found on the labels of the products. I paraphrased very little.

All in all, they promote growth, root development, budding sites, yield enhancement.

I am giving them a trial on my new banana plants. We will see what effect they have. I may also try using the bacteria in some germinating soaks to see if it does aid in germination and prevention of damping off.

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Scot