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Tissue Culturing & Other Propagation Techniques of Banana Plants This forum is for discussing propagation techniques of banana plants. Tissue culturing is the popular process of creating clones from a source plant. There are other techniques to propagate banana plants however, such as nicking corms or dividing corms. Learn more inside.


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Old 12-12-2012, 04:33 AM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Default implants as a means for crossing Musa

Jeeze I'm just wondering ...Reading that Nick has decided to take the TC leap, just as I was going to turn my phone off . A picture of removing one of the purified tissue scraping and putting it into a large enough syringe , then injecting it into the base of a different Musa using maybe saline solution ? I wonder if you could cross the two plants like that..
The injection would surly not damage the plant that gets the " needle " Just a thought.... I'm sure there is some type of window of opportunity when it should be done. Maybe the 2nd quarter of a sister plant growth cycle ..well before any blooming ..
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Old 12-12-2012, 08:25 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: implants as a means for crossing Musa

would or should it be injected into the corm??thats where it all happens right??...psudostems are all they will ever be once they are out of the corm??
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:52 AM   #3 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: implants as a means for crossing Musa

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Originally Posted by trebor View Post
Jeeze I'm just wondering ...Reading that Nick has decided to take the TC leap, just as I was going to turn my phone off . A picture of removing one of the purified tissue scraping and putting it into a large enough syringe , then injecting it into the base of a different Musa using maybe saline solution ? I wonder if you could cross the two plants like that..
The injection would surly not damage the plant that gets the " needle " Just a thought.... I'm sure there is some type of window of opportunity when it should be done. Maybe the 2nd quarter of a sister plant growth cycle ..well before any blooming ..
I'm not sure how that would work, the cells you inject are already differentiated and so would do nothing.
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Old 12-13-2012, 03:04 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: implants as a means for crossing Musa

What you describe will not work with bananas or any plants. The closest low-tech version is grafting (which does not work with bananas), generally there is no exchange of genetic material between rootstock and scion in grafts, but it has been documented, though the result is far from a hybrid. The hi-tech version of what you describe is called protoplast fusion, which is possible, but very difficult and requires not only lots of lab equipment, but great skill and lots of luck.
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:56 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: implants as a means for crossing Musa

but what about grafting corms together??the fine line where they meet might produce new or differant offspring
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:50 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: implants as a means for crossing Musa

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but what about grafting corms together??the fine line where they meet might produce new or differant offspring
This topic has been discussed at length previously on this website, search for "grafting" and you should be able to find the discussions.
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:23 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: implants as a means for crossing Musa

I don't know a lot about banana genetics, but I wonder if you could do in vitro fertilization. I haven't the slightest idea how you would get haploid gametes, but if you could fuse them you could get an embryo going and eventually a plant. Of course at this point we are talking big $$$ and a fancy lab.
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Old 12-14-2012, 06:15 AM   #8 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: implants as a means for crossing Musa

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Originally Posted by trebor View Post
Jeeze I'm just wondering ...Reading that Nick has decided to take the TC leap, just as I was going to turn my phone off . A picture of removing one of the purified tissue scraping and putting it into a large enough syringe , then injecting it into the base of a different Musa using maybe saline solution ? I wonder if you could cross the two plants like that..
The injection would surly not damage the plant that gets the " needle " Just a thought.... I'm sure there is some type of window of opportunity when it should be done. Maybe the 2nd quarter of a sister plant growth cycle ..well before any blooming ..
Google about vegetative hybridization. Maybe you would be interested.
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Old 12-14-2012, 08:41 PM   #9 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: implants as a means for crossing Musa

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Google about vegetative hybridization. Maybe you would be interested.
interesting topic, lots to read ... Thank you for your reply
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:04 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: implants as a means for crossing Musa

Hmm,.....do you think you and I would cross/hybridize if we had a blood-transplant then?
Don't think it works that way, haha!

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Old 12-20-2012, 12:01 PM   #11 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: implants as a means for crossing Musa

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Hmm,.....do you think you and I would cross/hybridize if we had a blood-transplant then?
Don't think it works that way, haha!

Kind regards,
Remko.
Blood transfusion as a method of changing the hereditary qualities used in the poultry industry in developing new breeds of chickens, guinea fowl, etc. See in Google - an interesting topic.
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Old 12-20-2012, 02:26 PM   #12 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: implants as a means for crossing Musa

It sounds as though making chimeras by mixing cells in TC is probably possible, but doesn't usually happen:

Experimentally Synthesized Plant Chimeras I. In vitro Recovery of Nicotiana tabacum L. Chimeras from Mixed Callus Cultures

Some gene transfer among cells of a chimera should be possible if the host is infected with a suitable virus or bacterium. But plants don't have anything like the circulating stem cells that help replenish at least some animal tissues.

Getting a plant graft chimera sounds as though it requires having a new shoot meristem start right at the graft boundary, so that the new meristem includes some cells from each.

But I would have to do a bunch more reading before I could hazard a guess as to whether or how any of that applies to grafting bananas.
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Old 12-20-2012, 06:48 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: implants as a means for crossing Musa

I'll go ahead and make a bold prediction that in 20 years we will have precise knowledge of trait loci in the banana genome and we will be able to cleave novel traits from one cultivar and insert them into another cultivar. We know that things like resistance to corm weevils, nematodes, and panama disease are genetic as are resistance to the various leaf diseases. With all the difficulty involved in breeding bananas it may just be easier to take the preferred variety and insert the traits you desire into it. We are probably a good 20 years away from it, but it will happen.

I am 29 and I think that when I am old plants probably won't be getting grafted at all. We will just be designing plants like we were coding a computer program.

It sounds crazy, but 50 years ago the Nobel Prize was being awarded to Watson and Crick for discovering the structure of DNA.

I am awaiting the second green revolution
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Old 12-21-2012, 05:30 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: implants as a means for crossing Musa

Quote:
Originally Posted by Romul View Post
Blood transfusion as a method of changing the hereditary qualities used in the poultry industry in developing new breeds of chickens, guinea fowl, etc. See in Google - an interesting topic.
It still doesn't seem to result in hybrids imo but I does seem to influence heredetary traits indeed! Remarkable!

Kind regards,
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:34 AM   #15 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: implants as a means for crossing Musa

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolas Naranja View Post
I'll go ahead and make a bold prediction that in 20 years we will have precise knowledge of trait loci in the banana genome and we will be able to cleave novel traits from one cultivar and insert them into another cultivar. We know that things like resistance to corm weevils, nematodes, and panama disease are genetic as are resistance to the various leaf diseases. With all the difficulty involved in breeding bananas it may just be easier to take the preferred variety and insert the traits you desire into it. We are probably a good 20 years away from it, but it will happen.

I am 29 and I think that when I am old plants probably won't be getting grafted at all. We will just be designing plants like we were coding a computer program.

It sounds crazy, but 50 years ago the Nobel Prize was being awarded to Watson and Crick for discovering the structure of DNA.

I am awaiting the second green revolution

I could not agree with you more ! I can see in the near future a huge change in plants associated with farming . I truly hope some restraint is applied so we dont go to far to quickly with out some sort of study period . Or a quarantine .. reason for this is I can just look out my window and can see the results of some complete idiots greed and total lack of understanding ..
Its a weed ! Some idiot renamed Florida Snow and sold in a few retail nursery's as ground cover .. One city here planted it on a 1 mile area in the medium . Then the lawn service cutting the grass cut it and went out and cut single family homes spreading the seeds . Next season there was Florida Snow in homes with different lawn service and even more seeds were distributed ..
Musa thankfully don't spread seed as rapidly as other plants do.. So in that regard we are safe
We should all take a step back and realize the weather patterns are changing. Potatoes could become difficult to grow with these temperature changes , But Musa will become easier to grow in cooler areas as the temp keep rising . Yes I'm saying bananas could be the new potato. No reason to not think so !
But wile all this change is occurring we will need lots of luck to continue feeding the planet.. This is not me just sitting here ringing my hands, I can see these weeds Florida Snow as a huge wake up call .. Problem is can any one else ? Or will this huge occurrence be passed over as Its Pretty and allow even more invasion to occur..

St. Lucie Extension Office Explains Snow in Florida
Pusley comes in three different species,Richardia grandiflora, largeflower pusley; R. scabra, Florida pusley (yes, its a native); andR. brasiliensi, Brazil pusley. Pusley is a small-leaved ground cover with pretty little flowers and is found flowering everywhere this time of year. The flowers are usually white, occasionally pink or lavender and somewhat funnel-shaped. Each flower produces three nutlets and considering there are approximately 20 flowers in each cluster, thats a lot of seeds.


I know a little off topic but then again it's right on topic.. The first citrus canker was seen as a little browning of some fruits in a grove !
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:54 AM   #16 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: implants as a means for crossing Musa

The agricultural revolution I'm looking forward to is in soil ecology. I like to imagine that some day we'll be able to know the entire genome of every strain of microbe in the soil and how they all interact.
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Old 12-21-2012, 02:35 PM   #17 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: implants as a means for crossing Musa

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It sounds as though making chimeras by mixing cells in TC is probably possible, but doesn't usually happen:

Experimentally Synthesized Plant Chimeras I. In vitro Recovery of Nicotiana tabacum L. Chimeras from Mixed Callus Cultures

Some gene transfer among cells of a chimera should be possible if the host is infected with a suitable virus or bacterium. But plants don't have anything like the circulating stem cells that help replenish at least some animal tissues.

Getting a plant graft chimera sounds as though it requires having a new shoot meristem start right at the graft boundary, so that the new meristem includes some cells from each.

But I would have to do a bunch more reading before I could hazard a guess as to whether or how any of that applies to grafting bananas.
Yes, chimeric shoots can grow from callus formed in fusion of the two plants. But how do you feel about the fact that when sowing seeds of the fruit of these chimeric shoots, grow plants with modified properties?
There is "a method of mentoring." It represents a change in the quality of graft under the influence of the stock, or vice versa. This method is designed by the famous Russian breeder Michurin, and with it brought real varieties of fruit. I do not doubt the veracity of the work Michurin. By the way, his work is highly valued genius scientist Luther Burbank.

Last edited by Romul : 12-21-2012 at 02:37 PM.
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Old 12-21-2012, 04:23 PM   #18 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: implants as a means for crossing Musa

Quote:
But how do you feel about the fact that when sowing seeds of the fruit of these chimeric shoots, grow plants with modified properties?
By the time you have seed, there's been a cycle of pollen and ovule for crossing to have happened in.
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Old 12-22-2012, 12:40 PM   #19 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: implants as a means for crossing Musa

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By the time you have seed, there's been a cycle of pollen and ovule for crossing to have happened in.
Crossing what with what? Is a chimeric plant fertilization by pollen of the same plant. You do not exclude the possibility of formation of the egg and pollen cells of different plants? O `k In this article, on page 146-147 .. :, 1948, You can read about the changes seed progeny scion. Here's another interesting article:
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Old 12-22-2012, 05:52 PM   #20 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: implants as a means for crossing Musa

A chimera contains genetically different cells. If a chimeric plant self-fertilizes, and the pollen is from one genetic type and the ovule is from the other, that's just the same as if the two plants that the cells came from had been crossed without creating a graft, let alone a chimera.
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