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Tissue Culturing & Other Propagation Techniques of Banana Plants This forum is for discussing propagation techniques of banana plants. Tissue culturing is the popular process of creating clones from a source plant. There are other techniques to propagate banana plants however, such as nicking corms or dividing corms. Learn more inside.


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Old 07-15-2015, 04:32 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default How to hybridize, store pollen, etc.

I have two bananas blooming right now, one is a tall Orinoco, the other is a Velutina. The Velutina has a few more male flowers left, but not many, and I would like to attempt to do some crossing. I also have a Zebrina of blooming size and have started giving it bloom booster, and I have seen a successful cross on this site of the two if I remember correctly. As far as Orinoco goes, I know that not all plants are compatible as far as crossing, so Velutina might not be compatible with Orinoco. My question is how do I store pollen so I dont lose anymore of it, how long will it store, and are the two types of bananas compatible in any way, as an example sumatrana x cross was made from an ornamental, and a fruiter.
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Old 07-16-2015, 11:09 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: How to hybridize, store pollen, etc.

Siege
Have you ever tried palm culture?
Hybridization of more cold tolerant
and resistant hybrids that
can sell $100+ for a gallon size.
Everyone @palmtalk.org wants a cocos nucifera
that can grow and produce fruit in a
temperate climate like SoCAL.

Cheers
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Old 07-16-2015, 11:41 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: How to hybridize, store pollen, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Going Bananas View Post
Siege
Have you ever tried palm culture?
Hybridization of more cold tolerant
and resistant hybrids that
can sell $100+ for a gallon size.
Everyone @palmtalk.org wants a cocos nucifera
that can grow and produce fruit in a
temperate climate like SoCAL.

Cheers
I have a Trachycarpus fortunei palm, and am going to get a few more, but I think that palms grow too slowly here for hybridization. It would be a long time before they bloom. But surprisingly Oklahoma does have its own native Sabal palm population to the south.
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Old 07-16-2015, 01:58 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: How to hybridize, store pollen, etc.

Compared to bananas, they are slow.

But among palms, there are rocket and some snails.
With palm hybrids, you would get synergistic qualities
of both parents in terms of cold resistance and speed of growth.
Palmtalk.org has excellent threads/topic on hybridization(palms)
especially Butia x Parajubea cocoides.
Patrick Schaefer from Northern California
is well known in the site for producing those hybrids.

Last edited by Going Bananas : 07-16-2015 at 02:01 PM.
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Old 07-16-2015, 04:37 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: How to hybridize, store pollen, etc.

Thanks for the site, I will for sure check it out. When I was a kid, I saw a story on the local news in Tulsa OK about a lady that overwintered Palms in her crawlspace by treating them pretty much like you do Orinoco. She had these really big palms that had developed trunks, that she would cut the leaves off of, dig up, and wrap the root ball in burlap. These would sleep under her house just like Orinoco will. I know it can be done after seeing that story, and I have searched, and searched for some info on what kind of palm those were, or about the lady that did it. They would have to be fairly fast growers as hers were leafed out decently by fall. I thought that perhaps they were majesty palms, even though I know that one is not very cold hardy, but I am not to clear on if it will go dormant or not. That's the one most common here in stores like Lowes. They have them on sale at Wal-Mart right now for 6 dollars, I may try this. I wish I could figure out the variety, because it kind of gives you the instant palm effect, just like planting out 10 foot banana stems do the same as far as bananas. I like growing Orinocos over Musa Basjoo for this reason.
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Old 07-17-2015, 04:12 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: How to hybridize, store pollen, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Going Bananas View Post
Siege
Have you ever tried palm culture?
Hybridization of more cold tolerant
and resistant hybrids that
can sell $100+ for a gallon size.
Everyone @palmtalk.org wants a cocos nucifera
that can grow and produce fruit in a
temperate climate like SoCAL.

Cheers
In zone 7 you are seriously limited on what palms you can grow. You basically have needle palms and Sabal minor which are completely cold hardy and Sabal 'Brazoria' and 'Birmingham' which are probably already natural hybrids and not exactly rock solid for zone 7. Sabals are difficult to pollinate anyway since they are self-fertile. The windmill palms (Trachycarpus) do poorly in Oklahoma probably due to the winter temperature swings that keep them from going completely dormant. You could cross strains of fortunei but there are only a few flowering sized plants in the U.S. of takil, nanus, and probably zero princeps. Crosses with wagnerianus have been done and they haven't shown themselves to be any more cold hardy than fortunei.
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Old 07-17-2015, 04:15 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: How to hybridize, store pollen, etc.

You can dry pollen at room temperature for a day and then fold it into a piece of paper and put in a zip lock bag with some desiccant and store in the freezer for up to two years or more.
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Old 07-17-2015, 10:10 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: How to hybridize, store pollen, etc.

Heres a thread on palmtalk.org on zone 7 palms...
Pindo Palm for Zone 7 - COLD HARDY PALMS - PalmTalk

JxB is a Jubea x Butia.
As I said on another thread, some hybrids get a
synergistic effect that exceeds the benefits/characteristics
of either parents in term of cold tolerance/resistance
and speed/vigor of growth.

Heres a thread on palm hybrids....
Ranking Hybrid Palms in Terms of Cold Hardiness - COLD HARDY PALMS - PalmTalk
The Patric Hybrids Are Here, The Patric Hybrids Are Here!! - COLD HARDY PALMS - PalmTalk

Heres another thread on growth rates of Sabals...
Comparing Growth Rates of Various Sabals - COLD HARDY PALMS - PalmTalk

Happy Growing!

Last edited by Going Bananas : 07-17-2015 at 10:46 AM.
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Old 07-17-2015, 10:56 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: How to hybridize, store pollen, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Going Bananas View Post
Heres a thread on palmtalk.org on zone 7 palms...
Pindo Palm for Zone 7 - COLD HARDY PALMS - PalmTalk

JxB is a Jubea x Butia.
As I said on another thread, some hybrids get a
synergistic effect that exceeds the benefits/characteristics
of either parents in term of cold tolerance/resistance
and speed/vigor of growth.

Heres a thread on palm hybrids produced by Patrick Schafer...
The Patric Hybrids Are Here, The Patric Hybrids Are Here!! - COLD HARDY PALMS - PalmTalk

Heres another thread on growth rates of Sabals...
Comparing Growth Rates of Various Sabals - COLD HARDY PALMS - PalmTalk

Happy Growing!
Admittedly not all zone 7's are the same (for example I have T. fortunei growing well but they don't like zone 7 on OKC. I've killed Butia x Jubaea and Jubaea x Butia but they do struggle through mild winters here with some protection better than pure Butia. I'm right on the northern edge of 7b but on the southern end of 7b on the northern edges of Atlanta there are still a few Butias that even survived the cold winter two years ago (but I don't know if they are still alive). I lost established Sabal 'Birminghams' and 'Brazorias' this last winter that survived the colder winter two years ago. I also forgot to mention that I have a few Chamaerops humilis 'Cerifera' that re-sprouted again from under mulch...not that there are any hybridization options really for that palm either (I doubt crossing with regular humilis would help much).
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Old 07-23-2015, 08:58 PM   #10 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: How to hybridize, store pollen, etc.

I live in North Mississippi and grow windmill palms. I am zone 7a. I have 2 that are 10+ feet tall. One has seeds for the first time this year. I have 2 that are 5 feet, and 2 that are 3 feet. The temp has been as low as 5 F since I have been growing these. The one gallon windmills are hard to keep alive. The first 2 I bought were 3 feet tall and they are over 10 after 10 years. I did nothing special and no mulch. I then bought 12 1 gallon. I planted them in a straight row at the edge of a pecan tree for protection. I mulched them heavily and lost 6 of them in the first 3 years. Once they were 2 feet tall with a nice trunk, I moved the remaining 6 to other areas in my yard. I did lose 1 that had a 1 foot trunk in the 4th year but I planted it in the shade. All the ones in the sun lived. If Oklahoma is zone 7, I would think they will live if you get one that is big enough and plant it in March. You could also cover the top with plastic so the top does not get water in the crown and freeze. The cold kills the small ones. Frozen water in the crown is what killed my larger one. I have never covered or mulched any of mine once they get a 1 foot trunk.
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Old 07-24-2015, 03:55 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: How to hybridize, store pollen, etc.

Quote:
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I live in North Mississippi and grow windmill palms. I am zone 7a. I have 2 that are 10+ feet tall. One has seeds for the first time this year. I have 2 that are 5 feet, and 2 that are 3 feet. The temp has been as low as 5 F since I have been growing these. The one gallon windmills are hard to keep alive. The first 2 I bought were 3 feet tall and they are over 10 after 10 years. I did nothing special and no mulch. I then bought 12 1 gallon. I planted them in a straight row at the edge of a pecan tree for protection. I mulched them heavily and lost 6 of them in the first 3 years. Once they were 2 feet tall with a nice trunk, I moved the remaining 6 to other areas in my yard. I did lose 1 that had a 1 foot trunk in the 4th year but I planted it in the shade. All the ones in the sun lived. If Oklahoma is zone 7, I would think they will live if you get one that is big enough and plant it in March. You could also cover the top with plastic so the top does not get water in the crown and freeze. The cold kills the small ones. Frozen water in the crown is what killed my larger one. I have never covered or mulched any of mine once they get a 1 foot trunk.


There is a guy north of me in zone 6b that has a few, he mulches very heavily and they survive, but I am not sure how it will work when they get too tall to cover with a pile of leaves. He is pretty good with growing stuff there though, even overwinters Brugmansia every year.
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Old 07-24-2015, 07:19 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: How to hybridize, store pollen, etc.

Check montrealplants, the guy knows his stuff and has videos... My friend has palms that survived in zone 4. He bild an insulated box over the palm, mulched heavyly and surrounded the trunk with a heating cable.
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