Bananas.org

Welcome to the Bananas.org forums.

You're currently viewing our message boards as a guest which gives you limited access to participate in discussions and access our other features such as our wiki and photo gallery. By joining our community, you'll have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload photos, and access many other special features. Registration is fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Go Back   Bananas.org > Banana Forum > Tissue Culturing & Other Propagation Techniques of Banana Plants
The Facebook Platform
Register Photo Gallery Classifieds Wiki Chat Map Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Tissue Culturing & Other Propagation Techniques of Banana Plants This forum is for discussing propagation techniques of banana plants. Tissue culturing is the popular process of creating clones from a source plant. There are other techniques to propagate banana plants however, such as nicking corms or dividing corms. Learn more inside.


Members currently in the chatroom: 0
The most chatters online in one day was 17, 09-06-2009.
No one is currently using the chat.

Reply   Email this Page Email this Page
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-08-2007, 08:35 PM   #1 (permalink)
many 'naners, little time
 
51st state's Avatar
 
Location: salisbury, UK
Zone: 8b ish
Name: Kev
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 465
BananaBucks : 193,591
Feedback: 3 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 202 Times
Was Thanked 245 Times in 119 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
Default growing from seed or from TC?

How do people feel about the merits of both?

Whilst I accept that TC allows many of us to acquire plants at a reasonable cost , but , any views out there on bio-diversity and maintaining genetic diversity by cultivation from seed.

I have done both and there is nothing better than showing someone an enormous banana plant and saying "I grew that from seed".

__________________
a>
51st state is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To 51st state

Join Bananas.org Today!

Are you a banana plant enthusiast? Then we hope you will join the community. You will gain access to post, create threads, private message, upload images, join groups and more.

Bananas.org is owned and operated by fellow banana plant enthusiasts. We strive to offer a non-commercial community to learn and share information. Receive all three issues from Volume 1 of Bananas Magazine with your membership:
   

Join Bananas.org Today! - Click Here


Sponsors

Old 12-08-2007, 10:21 PM   #2 (permalink)
Moderator

 
Gabe15's Avatar
 
Location: Oahu, Hawaii
Zone: 12
Name: Gabe
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,515
BananaBucks : 309,956
Feedback: 5 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 1 Times
Was Thanked 6,639 Times in 1,802 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 8 Times
Default Re: growing from seed or from TC?

I don't think there is any conflict between growing from seed and tissue culture (really micropropagation is more percise, tissue culture is a broad term that can still apply to growing from seed, but for our reasons TC is fine and understood). The main use of micropropagation/TC of banana is to provide cheap, disease-free, uniform planting material to farmers. It is of course a popular technology now in horticulture because you can produce many plants at a very cheap cost.

Since this topic is geared toward seed vs. TC, it applies to those bananas which can be grown from seed, wild species only (edible bananas for our reasons I don't feel apply). TC in this case actually (in my view) preserves biodiversity, there have been many instances (not only in banana, but in many other plants as well) where TC is the only reason the wild plant is still in existence today, you can turn one of very few remaining plants into thousands of a given species.

The way TC is used differs between the researching community and the business community, and they really do not need to follow the same trends. Researchers are actively collecting and growing plants from seed and preserving the diversity found with TC. Although a business is just multiplying the one specific variety they prefer, this has no impact on the conservation of bananas (or any plants). It is not like if Agri-Starts is not selling a species of banana, the international genebank (at INIBAP) will not have it, the genebanks do not care what is being sold where to consumers, they collect everything and have more diversity then will ever be offered commercially.

Now for the homegrower, it really doesn't matter, you don't have to feel bad about buying TC'd plants instead of growing from seed, its all about personal preference. I myself enjoy growing bananas from seed, its fun and I agree that is feels good to grow things from seed. Yes seed can produce variability and introduce new types of plants, but rest assured that tissue culturing plants is not affecting biodiversity negatively.
__________________
Growing bananas in Colorado, Hawaii and Washington since 2004.
Gabe15 is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To Gabe15
Old 12-08-2007, 10:44 PM   #3 (permalink)
Member
 
Tropicallvr's Avatar
 
Name: Kyle
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,032
BananaBucks : 273,197
Feedback: 6 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 230 Times
Was Thanked 381 Times in 155 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 14 Times
Default Re: growing from seed or from TC?

Sometimes you get a extra vigourous seedling that if you get it VIA TC might just have average vigor. That might also go for hardiness in somecases, such as getting a seed sourced from a particularly high elevation.
Musa sikkimensis TC from Agri-starts is just plain, no red splotches, but it's really vigorous. I think they should TC "red flash" or "red tiger" instead.
Maybe TC working in conjuction with seed raised plants would be the best, like raising 100 or more plants from seed then selecting the best one, and TCing it for color, growth rate, ect.

Last edited by Tropicallvr : 12-09-2007 at 01:15 PM.
Tropicallvr is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To Tropicallvr
Old 12-09-2007, 12:12 PM   #4 (permalink)
retired GMO maestro
 
inkcube's Avatar
 
Location: traveling the world
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 121
BananaBucks : 3,060
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 6 Times
Was Thanked 95 Times in 42 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
Default Re: growing from seed or from TC?

i started in TC, i like to tell visitors that a certain plant came from a single cell swirling around on an agitator or from a plate of callus. in the orchid world TC allows us to own plants that would otherwise cost a fortune, in fact the only way orchid seed is germinated now is on a sterile plate. with carnivorous plants TC helps prevent over collecting of wild and endangered species. it was mentioned above that researchers & governments are collecting germplasm, this helps preserve species and superior germ lines.

plus in the word of seedless bananas TC is the best hope sometimes for developing superior disease resistance, i can think of 2 cultivars being grown in plantations that came out of TC that were resistant to race 3 and race 4 of fusarium wilt. throughout my career i have seen many plantations where all the plants are TC plants, they can produce replacement plants faster that they can with seeds and there is more uniformity with the crop.

i would guess out of the thousand or so orchids in my collection 99% are TC, i know all of my CP's are (i did them myself), and probably 50% of my bananas are. the ones in a current research trial i am conducting are all TC, they must be completely uniform clones to rule out variability.

the way i see things, on both commercial and research level, TC is a must in order to maintain the best traits and to develop a uniform crop. but as the Buddha said before he died. "i could be wrong".
inkcube is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To inkcube
Old 12-09-2007, 04:16 PM   #5 (permalink)
I'm in Zone denial!
 
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Zone: They say 9, but I think it's more like 8.
Name: Margie
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 203
BananaBucks : 28,934
Feedback: 2 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 339 Times
Was Thanked 126 Times in 46 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 90 Times
Bananas Brindando Re: growing from seed or from TC?

Great discussion...Thanks!


Margie
Bch Grl is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To Bch Grl
Sponsors

Old 12-09-2007, 04:35 PM   #6 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15
BananaBucks : 1,694
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 2 Times
Was Thanked 11 Times in 3 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
Default Re: growing from seed or from TC?

In the commercial plant business, the number of TC plants available is growing all the time. To ignore this trend would be a shame. The plants are cheap, uniform, and vigorous. I would recommend just to keep and open mind and don't discount any propagation method until weighing out the merits. As Confucius said "The mind is like a parachute, it only operates while open"
taroking is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To taroking
Old 12-10-2007, 11:01 AM   #7 (permalink)
 
dablo93's Avatar
 
Location: Randstad North
Zone: Z8b-Z9a, wet cold winters and mild summers
Name: daen
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 909
BananaBucks : 63,130
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 122 Times
Was Thanked 259 Times in 164 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 159 Times
Send a message via MSN to dablo93
Default Re: growing from seed or from TC?

what's the full name of TC?
__________________
-=
dablo93 is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To dablo93
Old 12-10-2007, 11:03 AM   #8 (permalink)
Member
 
Tropicallvr's Avatar
 
Name: Kyle
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,032
BananaBucks : 273,197
Feedback: 6 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 230 Times
Was Thanked 381 Times in 155 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 14 Times
Default Re: growing from seed or from TC?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dablo93 View Post
what's the full name of TC?
Tissue Culture
Tropicallvr is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To Tropicallvr
Old 12-10-2007, 12:07 PM   #9 (permalink)
 
dablo93's Avatar
 
Location: Randstad North
Zone: Z8b-Z9a, wet cold winters and mild summers
Name: daen
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 909
BananaBucks : 63,130
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 122 Times
Was Thanked 259 Times in 164 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 159 Times
Send a message via MSN to dablo93
Default Re: growing from seed or from TC?

thanks
I hearded from it, plants are often less weaker and less hardy etc, isn't it?
is this not a 'good' way to multiply the Ae ae's and other special and rare plants?
__________________
-=
dablo93 is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To dablo93
Old 12-10-2007, 01:14 PM   #10 (permalink)
retired GMO maestro
 
inkcube's Avatar
 
Location: traveling the world
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 121
BananaBucks : 3,060
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 6 Times
Was Thanked 95 Times in 42 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
Default Re: growing from seed or from TC?

tc does not diminish vigor. ae ae cannot be propagated via tc due to the variegation. variegation will not hold up under tc.
inkcube is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To inkcube
Old 12-31-2007, 10:25 PM   #11 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2
BananaBucks : 312
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 0 Times
Was Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
Default Re: growing from seed or from TC?

Hi, I've been curious about doing some amatuer TC'ing at home. Is tis feasilbe? How much would it cost for a basic setup? This isn't for any type of business or anything on alarge scale. I've just always been interested in trying my hand at something like this, especially for musas or other tropicals.
Thanks!
chris10858 is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To chris10858
Old 12-31-2007, 11:40 PM   #12 (permalink)
New lemony fresh scent!
 
klemmthamm's Avatar
 
Location: N.E. Oklahoma
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 293
BananaBucks : 13,777
Feedback: 9 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 32 Times
Was Thanked 60 Times in 36 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1 Times
Default Re: growing from seed or from TC?

It is my understanding that yes it is possible, but contamination is going to be a major concern in a home setup.

I have been kicking the idea around for a while, the cost doesn't appear to be to bad... a few hundred bucks would prolly get a good basic set up... nothing fancy by any means but it'd do the job.

let me know if you take the plunge cause I would like to know how it turns out for ya.

-James-
__________________
"No sir we don't have quotas anymore. We used to have quotas but now we're allowed to write as many tickets as we want." - Unknown officer



klemmthamm is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To klemmthamm
Old 12-31-2007, 11:42 PM   #13 (permalink)
New lemony fresh scent!
 
klemmthamm's Avatar
 
Location: N.E. Oklahoma
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 293
BananaBucks : 13,777
Feedback: 9 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 32 Times
Was Thanked 60 Times in 36 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1 Times
Default Re: growing from seed or from TC?

Oh almost forgot... I have a link to a place that will give you a good idea of what TC involves... and they also sell kits (overpriced IMO) but it has some good info.

I will PM it to you when I get home tomorrow.
__________________
"No sir we don't have quotas anymore. We used to have quotas but now we're allowed to write as many tickets as we want." - Unknown officer



klemmthamm is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To klemmthamm
Old 01-01-2008, 09:24 AM   #14 (permalink)
 
musa_monkey's Avatar
 
Location: Burnham, Bucks, UK
Zone: 8
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 217
BananaBucks : 20,665
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 53 Times
Was Thanked 143 Times in 71 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
Default Re: growing from seed or from TC?

Been toying with the idea of TC myself, here is a link to a home kitchen kit that's worth a look.

http://www.kitchenculturekit.com/kit.htm
musa_monkey is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To musa_monkey
Old 01-01-2008, 09:42 AM   #15 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2
BananaBucks : 312
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 0 Times
Was Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
Default Re: growing from seed or from TC?

Awesome! Thanks so much.
chris10858 is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To chris10858
Old 01-01-2008, 11:33 AM   #16 (permalink)
Moderator

 
Gabe15's Avatar
 
Location: Oahu, Hawaii
Zone: 12
Name: Gabe
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,515
BananaBucks : 309,956
Feedback: 5 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 1 Times
Was Thanked 6,639 Times in 1,802 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 8 Times
Default Re: growing from seed or from TC?

Iʻm thinking about setting up little TC operation at my house next summer. I have some ideas about sterility, but I think with enough caution it might be possible. The biggest challenge I see is getting the media sterile prior to culturing, normally you would autoclave it, but there is that product called PPM (Plant Preservative Mixture) that is supposed to help, Ive tried it before without success but I think there was too much contamination from other things, if you made sure the vessels, tools and tissue was sterile, perhaps the PPM might work better if only the media needed sterilization.
__________________
Growing bananas in Colorado, Hawaii and Washington since 2004.
Gabe15 is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To Gabe15

Join Bananas.org Today!

Are you a banana plant enthusiast? Then we hope you will join the community. You will gain access to post, create threads, private message, upload images, join groups and more.

Bananas.org is owned and operated by fellow banana plant enthusiasts. We strive to offer a non-commercial community to learn and share information. Receive all three issues from Volume 1 of Bananas Magazine with your membership:
   

Join Bananas.org Today! - Click Here


Sponsors

Old 01-01-2008, 03:23 PM   #17 (permalink)
New lemony fresh scent!
 
klemmthamm's Avatar
 
Location: N.E. Oklahoma
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 293
BananaBucks : 13,777
Feedback: 9 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 32 Times
Was Thanked 60 Times in 36 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1 Times
Default Re: growing from seed or from TC?

lol nevermind about the links... musa monkey and gabe just about covered it.
__________________
"No sir we don't have quotas anymore. We used to have quotas but now we're allowed to write as many tickets as we want." - Unknown officer



klemmthamm is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To klemmthamm
Old 01-01-2008, 05:10 PM   #18 (permalink)
Getting there...
 
Location: UK
Zone: 8-ish
Name: Helen
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 94
BananaBucks : 10,479
Feedback: 3 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 0 Times
Was Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
Default Re: growing from seed or from TC?

I seem to remember that TC was discussed last year, and Erlend was setting up a kitchen system. Erland, if you read this, did you ever manage to do it?
Mustang is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To Mustang
Old 01-01-2008, 06:18 PM   #19 (permalink)
3rd winter growing indoor
 
D_&_T's Avatar
 
Location: Northern Indiana
Zone: 5
Name: Dan
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 877
BananaBucks : 21,259
Feedback: 4 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 2,437 Times
Was Thanked 251 Times in 168 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 342 Times
Default Re: growing from seed or from TC?

might have to try this myself!


Dan
__________________


INDIANASTATEBEEKEEPERS.ORG



D_&_T is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To D_&_T
Old 01-02-2008, 11:33 AM   #20 (permalink)
retired GMO maestro
 
inkcube's Avatar
 
Location: traveling the world
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 121
BananaBucks : 3,060
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 6 Times
Was Thanked 95 Times in 42 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
Default Re: growing from seed or from TC?

a home setup can be done very easily. while working on my MS i had setup a home lab with a 29 gal. fish tank, piece of plastic sheeting, mason jars, baby food jars & a pressure cooker. i produced several thousand orchids generated from floral buds and carnivorous plants with this setup, because of this i was asked to join a lab at Yale and give a presentation at AIBS.

the fish tank on its side act as your hood, the plastic sheet is a curtain to hang over the open end to keep sterile, the pressure cooker is your autoclave - it runs on the same principle. you'll need alcohol (90% isopropyl) to sterilize the tank interior, instruments, etc, you can also wipe down the interior with a 10% bleach/water solution. NEVER mix bleach & alcohol!!!

your main difficulties will be getting chemicals; often they are sold only to labs or schools, they come in quantities that might be more than you'll need, & they can be expensive. another problem will be a good analytical scale; the purchase of one can put you on the DEA watch list for 5 years and in some states they are classified as drug paraphernalia.

i can give more details on how i set this up if some one wants.

Last edited by inkcube : 01-02-2008 at 07:19 PM.
inkcube is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To inkcube
Sponsors

Reply   Email this Page Email this Page






Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need help getting started growing bananas from seed. southlatropical Banana Seed Germination Forum 7 02-11-2012 06:54 AM
Do these not have viable seed? island cassie Main Banana Discussion 7 08-30-2008 10:13 PM
First seed is coming through marksbananas Banana Seed Germination Forum 9 08-08-2007 01:07 PM
Anyone growing M. sp.nov"big flower" from seed? tropicalkid Species Bananas 5 09-16-2006 06:36 AM
Seed Sources ???? jmilligan1976 Main Banana Discussion 6 08-01-2006 01:06 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:34 PM.





Follow us:
Twitter YouTube

All content © Bananas.org & the respective author.