Bermy nana

I am thinking of trying to buy some Williams Hybrid but I just read a few articles that say it is the same as the Gran Nain. However I see that a few nurseries sell both. Has anybody heard this before and if they are different what are the differences.

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sandy0225

I've grown both before and I can't tell any difference. That's why when I order them, I make sure and tag them right away. Otherwise they could get mixed up.
I get williams hybrid from sunshine horticulture and gran nain from agristarts. i wouldn't be surprised if they are both the same as dwarf cavendish.

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Sandy Burrell



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Gabe15

They are very similar, but they are distinct cultivars. 'Williams' is a shorter tall Cavendish variety, and 'Gran Nain' is taller dwarf Cavendish. The fruit size and bunch size are very similar, and the fruit pretty much indistinguishable.

When they fruit, you can tell because 'Gran Nain' has persistent or semi-persistent male flowers and bracts, and 'Williams' has non-persistent male flowers and bracts.

'Gran Nain'




'Williams'

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Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties.

Bermy nana

Thanks Sandy. I am trying to import some new varieties into Bermuda in the form of tissue cultures. We have Gran Nain here but not Williams. I was hoping they were different, maybe someone will have some info on why they have different names or if there are subtle differences.
We have a ban on importing banana plants so my approach is convince the government to introduce new commercially viable varieties (for growers rather than nurseries). I am looking at others like the Raja Puri for its fast time to maturity, Ice Cream based on excellent taste and Williams. High yeild, wind resistant (small to medium height), disease free and great taste are my criteria. If you have any suggestions let me know.
Also I am glad you mentioned Sunshine and Agristarts as those are to two TC producers I have contacted already. They sound like good places to deal with.
Cheers
James

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Bermy nana

Gabe that is good news. The pics are useful. I was hoping you might have some insight for me. Do the fruit taste similar? I have read Williams is very common in Australia as a commercial crop so it may work out for us in Bermuda. I take it the height of the Williams is similar to Gran Nain 7-8 ft? Also what would be the typical time to maturity?
Thanks again.
James

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venturabananas

So Gabe, then this one at Quail Gardens in Encinitas, CA, which is labelled "Williams Hybrid" is incorrectly labelled? Given that it has persistent bracts and male flowers.

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It wouldn't be the only one they have mislabelled and would explain why Pitangadiego says their Williams is different from the others he's grown.

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sunfish

Oh great so maybe I still don't have the true Blue Java ?

venturabananas

No, that one they have right. Those bananas really are blue on their plants. Some of their others... well, nobody's perfect!

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Darkman

Good information. I'm supposed to have a Williams so I guess I'll just wait till I get a bloom to see.

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Darkman in Pensacola

AS ALWAYS IMHO AND YOUR MILEAGE MAY DIFFER!!!!!!!!

Life - Some assembly required, As is no warranty, Batteries not included, Instructions shipped separately and are frequently wrong!

Kentucky Bourbon - It may not solve the problem but it helps to make it tolerable!

Statistics - Data that analyst twist to support the insane opinions of those that pay them.

kcj1219

Definitely not the same Sandy. Not just the flowers but the leaves, leaf spacing and height are much different then the dwarf. But cavendish just the same....

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KJ

Bermy nana

So how about the fruit? Which produces more and is there a difference in flavor? I am still waiting for my Gran Nain to flower and we don't have any Williams here ...yet.

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GreenFin

I'm unfamiliar with the term "persistent male flowers." I tried googling and did not find anything helpful.

It seems like it should mean something like, "the male flowers persistently keep hanging on rather than quickly dropping off." But that definition would contradict your examples, since the plant you've labeled 'Williams' is the one that still has male flowers and the Gran Nains are the ones without them. [I'm calling the underdeveloped/aborted fruit hanging below the bunch in your 3rd pic the male flowers. Is this correct?]

So does "persistent male flowers" mean the opposite of what I guessed? What exactly does "persistent male flowers" mean in this context?

I'm asking this to anyone who knows, so if any of you know what persistent male flowers are and can point out how those pictures illustrate them, please help me out

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Set out runnin', but I'll take my time; a friend of bananas is a friend of mine.

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GreenFin

Isn't that more similar to Gabe's 3rd pic (Williams) than his 2nd (GN)?

What am I missing?

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Set out runnin', but I'll take my time; a friend of bananas is a friend of mine.

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venturabananas

To me it is most similar to the 1st one he had under Grain Nain, and yes, not at all like the 2nd.

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Gabe15

Yes, that is basically correct.

In the context of the photos above, you must look at the flowers directly above the male bud. The ones in the third photo of 'Williams' right after the last fruits are not really the male flowers, they are transitional and are often persistent on any cultivar.

If you take a look at the first photo, it clearly has totally persistent flowers all along the rachis. In the the second photo, the rachis is mostly clean, but right above the bud, there are dried persistent bracts and flowers, they have obviously been falling off, but they are still semi-persistent. Sometimes environmental conditions can change the degree to which the flower and bract persistence is expressed.

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Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties.

Gabe15

This one looks like 'Grand Nain' or 'Dwarf Cavendish', a little hard to tell for sure without seeing it up close. 'Grand Nain' is essentially a large 'Dwarf Cavendish', and 'Williams' a somewhat shorter tall Cavendish. If you translate directly from the French, "Grand Nain" means "giant dwarf".

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Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties.

GreenFin

Thanks for the fast reply and good explanation. I see what you're talking about now.

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Set out runnin', but I'll take my time; a friend of bananas is a friend of mine.

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Yug

I noticed in the Wiki that the 'Gran Nain' says the male flowers are non-persistent. That needs a-fixin, since it is opposite what Gabe says (and I ain't gonna contradict him )