Paulzie32

I've been trying to do as much learning as I can about bananas, but I'm still having some difficulties on some things.
For instance, (and forgive me if these things have been discussed on here already, I've searched but so many threads come up there's too much to read),
Can you tell if a banana is a Dessert or Cooking banana based on the group it belongs to? So, are all AA bananas all Dessert bananas? If so, can someone tell me which are which?
AA -
AAA -
AAB -
ABB -
AAAA -
AAAB -
AB -
AS - Never even seen S before -
AAA-AAB
AAT -didn't know there was a T -
AABB -
ABBB -
ABBT -

And Next, I'm trying to learn the different subgroups of Dessert bananas but maybe someone can help with a few. I see some listed as the same thing but some sites list each as a different group.
Pome - (Latin for Apple) I thought were Apple type or Manzanos but I see Manzano listed as a.....
Silk - which I also see listed as a Variety of....
Pisang Raja - ?

So, what's the deal? Someone Please Explain.

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Have: Mysore, Pisang Klotek, Rajapuri, a Pineapple flavored type (Pisang Raja?), Manzano, Veinte Cohol, Gros Michel, Gran Nain, Double Mahoi, Enano Gigante, Dwarf Cavendish, SDC, TT, SH3640, FHIA-18, a NOT FHIA-18 (?), FHIA 01, Pitogo, Blue Java, Dwarf Red, Dwarf Namwah, Tall Namwah, Orinoco (from 3 locations), Dwarf Orinoco, Cali Gold, Hua Moa, (Red?) Iholena, Dwarf Iholene, Dwarf Puerto Rican, Velutina and growing

Gabe15

I don't have time for a full answer right now, but in regards to your first question, there is really no biological difference between desert and cooking bananas, it is basically all cultural. All bananas start out starchy when under ripe, and the starch converts to sugar when ripe. The amount of starch that remains at various ripeness stages is variable between cultivars, and other aspects of the fruit can be different too, but none of dictates if they are cooked or not, that's a human construction. Many cultivars are used both as dessert and for cooking. What's more important is having the right cultivar at the right stage for the recipe you're going for. A good example is 'Namwah', in the US it's mostly used as a dessert fruit, in SE Asia it's often regarded as dual use, and in East Africa it's used almost exclusively for brewing beer, but it's the exact same fruit. Even Plantains may be eaten raw ripe with no ill effect. The usage must be considered in the cultural context it's presented in. I always like to explain it simply as that "bananas don't come with instructions, and you may use them how you please".

The commonly repeated info that certain genome groups contain sweet or starchy bananas, and that it correlates to cooking or desert use is extremely over simplified and only holds up under a relatively narrow set of contexts, in the real banana world it's just not true.

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Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties.

Paulzie32

Great info. Thanks Gabe. Totally understandable. I just saw a video today where the guy said he saw Gros Michel in Malaysia, but they were green because they eat them green..... cooked I think.

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Have: Mysore, Pisang Klotek, Rajapuri, a Pineapple flavored type (Pisang Raja?), Manzano, Veinte Cohol, Gros Michel, Gran Nain, Double Mahoi, Enano Gigante, Dwarf Cavendish, SDC, TT, SH3640, FHIA-18, a NOT FHIA-18 (?), FHIA 01, Pitogo, Blue Java, Dwarf Red, Dwarf Namwah, Tall Namwah, Orinoco (from 3 locations), Dwarf Orinoco, Cali Gold, Hua Moa, (Red?) Iholena, Dwarf Iholene, Dwarf Puerto Rican, Velutina and growing

robguz24

A lot of questions and big topics, but I'll try to answer a few.

Pome is a group that includes the Brazilian and Raja Puri, both of which sort of have an apple taste. Here in Hawaii the Brazilian we call Apple.

Silk is another group which includes what most of the world outside Hawaii calls the Apple banana, aka Manzano. In Hawaii we call it Silk Fig.

Locally people use Dwarf Cavendish and Williams as cooking varieties when they're green. They are both AAAs. So those are a couple examples where being just A doesn't mean you can't cook with it.

AAs I've had that range from extremely tart (Veinte Cohol) to extremely sweet (Kluay Khai) and can even be somewhat starchy when underripe, such as Rose.

I've grown 1 type of AS, Vunamami which is a hybrid of Musa Acuminata and Musa Schizocarpa. Would have loved to try it but it died

Plantains are all AABs and B is generally considered the starchy contribution to bananas, but there are ABBs that are certainly less starchy when ripe than Plantains are.

Group is distinct from whether or not a cultivar is AAA, AAB, ABB, etc.

Cavendish and Reds are all AAAs but are two distinct groups.

In general, the AAA types I've had tend to be much more sweet than tangy, and tend to have softer textures when ripe than those having some B in them.

So in general, lots of exceptions to trying to generalize about bananas!

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My micro-farm

Stay on my Big Island banana farm cottage

Paulzie32

Thanks Rob,
Strange that Manzano is Silk and not Pome :-)

So, is it safe to assume a banana that is AA or AAA is going to be more of a sweet/dessert banana and not as starchy as a typical starchy plantain/cooking banana?
And I believe Mysore is AAB so in some cases even AAB can sometimes be a sweeter, dessert type banana? Sometimes because African Rhino is also AAB but is a more starchy type... correct?

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Have: Mysore, Pisang Klotek, Rajapuri, a Pineapple flavored type (Pisang Raja?), Manzano, Veinte Cohol, Gros Michel, Gran Nain, Double Mahoi, Enano Gigante, Dwarf Cavendish, SDC, TT, SH3640, FHIA-18, a NOT FHIA-18 (?), FHIA 01, Pitogo, Blue Java, Dwarf Red, Dwarf Namwah, Tall Namwah, Orinoco (from 3 locations), Dwarf Orinoco, Cali Gold, Hua Moa, (Red?) Iholena, Dwarf Iholene, Dwarf Puerto Rican, Velutina and growing

robguz24

I think it's safe to say anything with all AA is not going to be as starchy as cooking banana/plantain, but not necessarily all that sweet.

I think AABs usually are quite sweet and excel as dessert bananas.

I'm sure someone knows why one AAB can be a starchy plantain while other AABs can be soft and mushy at the same stage of ripeness. Perhaps different genes in one of the As? An interesting topic for sure!

__________________
My micro-farm

Stay on my Big Island banana farm cottage

Gabe15

The reason it's hard to reason why some AABs are "starchy" and some are "sweet" is explained above, it's just not true when you look at all bananas, it depends on the ripeness level when you intend to use it, and the generalizations only work if you're looking at a few specific examples. Banana classification is messy and confusing and most literature gets it wrong. Even the FAO messed up all of their stats on "bananas" vs "plantains" because they did not understand how it worked and made gross generalizations.

As for the AAs, they are incredibly diverse and pretty much encompass every possible permutation on the spectrum of so called "cooking" or "desert" bananas.

It won't lead you anywhere useful to try and pinpoint which bananas are for "cooking" and which are for "desert". Whenever I have the opportunity to try new bananas, I try them at all ripeness levels fresh and cooked in various ways just let them tell me how they best fit with my preference.

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Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties.

Gabe15

Also the genome groups (AAA, AAB etc...) are descriptive of the state of the genome composition, but does not relate at all to common ancestry or close relation within the groups, overall they are polyphyletic. Subgroups (such as Cavendish, Pome, Plantain etc...) are monoplyletic clusters of closely related mutant types from the same original seedling, so you can start to generalize about cultivars within the subgroups, but not within the genome groups.

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Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties.