Bananagardendreamboy

I dug these up tonight and was surprised at how many roots they had for water suckers. They probably showed up maybe 4 weeks ago? I wouldn’t normally mess with them but there was already 4 sword suckers right around the base of the tree so with these 3 that made 7. Way too many

xcadaverx

I’m still pretty confused in regards to if I should desucker, or leave my suckers to grow. There seems to be a lot of conflicting points in this thread.

I have 2 mother Ice Cream Banana plants that are outside in the ground. One mother has two pups, and the other has three. I was going to desucker them, but now I’m reading in this thread that it may be more useful to keep them if you want a steady stream of bananas rather than a big clump followed by a banana-drought. Seeing as I’m the only person in the house that likes bananas, I think it would be better if I had a steady-stream of fruiting rather than all-at-once. Does that mean I should just let my bananas do what they do, and stop bothering them? Or should I still de-sucker at 4+ pups?

The other conflicting finding is that some folks are posting little tiny nubs of a sucker, while I’ve previously read that you need to wait until they’re 1 foot tall before de-suckering. Which is it?

My, oh my, bananas are confusing.

Dvivian

When you want a new banana plant, a sword sucker rather than a water sucker, would be my first choice.
It seems that the general consensus is that a sword sucker is better than a water sucker on the grounds that, for example, it usually grows more vigorously and reliably at first, has better developed roots and produces a better banana bunch.
It is my understanding (from reading not experience) that "following sucker" selection (i.e. the in-situ sucker that will be the next crop) is very important in commercial banana production in order to achieve large bunches of fruit that ripen in a timely manner. So sword suckers are favored for this and recommended by many agricultural authorities.
However, in my experience as a patient "suburban home garden" banana grower, sucker type is not essential, if all you are after is plant material to get you started and you do not have access to a healthy sword sucker.
In fact, I am usually happy with a small piece of a rhizome with a bud on it when I am seeking a scarce banana cultivar that I have my heart set on. That said, you may have to give the plant a lot of extra care if it is not a vigorous plant. Even if one plants a water sucker, and consequently the first bunch of bananas is poor or a bit tardy, subsequent bunches on the following suckers of a well cared for plant will usually be rewarding.

If, for example, you purchase a tissue culture banana plant, you are getting the equivalent of a water sucker; it only has a tiny rhizome, not much root and is not very rigorous when compared to a sword sucker, but again, it will be successful if cared for correctly.

As far back as 1954, Oppenheimer and Gottreich and then Swai in 1993 undertook scientific research that showed that sword suckers and water suckers of similar size when excised from the parent plant produced bunches of similar size. This is a controversial research outcome and I'm sure there must be scientific papers with the opposite result, but I have not been unable to lay my hands on them; perhaps someone can help.

Sure, a sword sucker would be my first choice, if it is available, but all suckers, given the right attention and conditions, have the "potential" to produce banana bunches in the long run.
I have over 100 parent banana plants (that's not including suckers) and it has been my experience that optimal light, plant nutrition, watering, soil development and the selection of suitable cultivars for your climate is as important as sucker selection in the long run.

It seems to me that the size of the rhizome and the amount of roots that it has is one of the primary indicators of a good sucker. So I lovingly care for my suckers in a pot until they have developed a dense root system. Only then do I plant them out. If all I have is a small peeper or a bud, then I may use bottom heat in a greenhouse. If I do not neglect to care for my banana plant, then I usually end up with a healthy plant and decent banana bunches eventually.

Snarkie

While it is true that both will make plants, the sword suckers are the superior plants. I think I joined this forum in 2014, and the water suckers are STILL only 30" tall. Eight years later.

Your reference is from the 50s, which leaves a lot of room for improvement. Until 1995, there was limited knowledge about the dawn redwood as well, until I rewrote the book on it. Now, all the true and accepted info is MY research. I suspect the same thing is happening here with suckers. Dwarf bananas over in Isn'tReal have nothing to do with full-sized plants everywhere else.

Now, for a final blow of bad breath to your birthday candle, the fastest way to discredit yourself is to quote a bunch of **** that someone else published. This shows that you know nothing yourself, and are relying on others' works as verification. That said, there are at least a dozen members on here, who have published original works and are considered true experts in their respected fields.

I happen to be one, so if you would like to present experiments and evidence from your own research to back your statements up, I would love to hear them.

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labgoof

I would appreciate pics & explanations!!

PR-Giants

Bunch from a ratoon sword sucker.



It's important to understand that not all banana cultivars produce a larger bunch on the ratoon crop but the ones that do can be manipulated to produce huge bunches. All the bunches we've produced that exceeded 200 pounds have come from ratoon sword suckers but for most applications we prefer growing water suckers.

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twotallgirls

Ahh, the issue that growers love to debate. I've been growing for a long time and learned from many mistakes, experiments, luck, hard work as to what works for me. I'm lucky to now live in excellent banana growing climate so it make things much, much easier than when I grew in zone 8 or 9. I've learned that any size sucker can be separated and grown into healthy plant but require proper care. A vast majority of my pups are sword but I mostly have issues when I ignore key inputs (not watering during dry season, forgetting to fertilize, etc.). When you treat them right, it doesn't really matter... sword or water sucker, they all do just fine. It may be that I'm in a zone that is more forgiving but except for my damn Pitogo (which constantly cause me headaches) I've had zero issues when I have good soil, water, feed, mulch, protect as necessary. My original Pitogo and its subsequent sword suckers have failed miserably... my take is its the genetics of the plant. But give me a healthy sucker, water or sword, and I'll grow you nice bunch of bananas every time when I pay attention to what it needs. Now I haven't' had an awesome bunch like PR Giant just posted but happily harvest really nice sizes regardless of sucker type. Keep on growing!!

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PR-Giants

Water suckers do produce large bunches but one of their advantages over sword suckers is because they are small they can quickly be mass produced when a superior mutation comes along or if you only have one plant and want a few thousand more. But when it comes to variegated bananas water suckers have even greater advantages over sword suckers and that's why all of the professionals I work with prefer water suckers. Most growers base their opinions on their experiences but not everyone has the same experience.

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PR-Giants

Another advantage of being small is that shipping boxes can be stuffed with them making the shipping cost per plant just pennies.

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PR-Giants

Here's a variegated dwarf pisang awak water sucker.

Water suckers have a small connection to the mother plant while sword suckers have a large connection.

The photo shows that this water sucker will have a narrow elongated central cylinder flanked by a thin cortex. Also the growing point must be above the highest root.

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PR-Giants

Here's a bunch of cuerno de alce water suckers.

Water suckers and sword suckers are genetically the same.

When someone suggests that water suckers are difficult to grow it's usually based on a lack of experience.

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PR-Giants

Here's a bunch of variegated Florida water suckers.

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PR-Giants

Here's what the inside of this water sucker looks like.

The arrow is pointing to the Growing Point.



This next photo should help members that are unfamiliar with the terminology.

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PR-Giants

Water suckers are great, they increase propagation without adversely affecting the mother plant's growth.

This water sucker is the first pup from this new variety.

If you want to read more about this new variety, click on the blue arrow in the Quote Box.

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PR-Giants

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PR-Giants

A while back I found this water sucker and like most water suckers it was struggling to survive having to compete with the much larger plants around it. It had exceptional variegation so I decided to pot it up. It's growing much better now and this last leaf is stunning.

This plant has very fertile pollen and will be used in our variegated banana breeding program.

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RROBBINS53

I'm getting ready to dig one up and plant it in a pot so it will grow roots. Then I will plant it in the ground later. I don't expect any issues. Aloha