tissue versus corm or pups
 

Hi, I would like to learn the difference between a plant from tissue and one that grows from the corm, if any. Don't they all need the corm to grow?
Thank You!

Re: tissue versus corm or pups
 

A tissue culture (TC) is a clone taken from tissue of a plant and grown in a sterile lab condition until sold to a nursery in bulk. They are tiny plants with about a dime sized corm. They are less expensive because they are tiny and very low cost to ship. They can make millions of TC plantlets off one pup. They are handled and sold a couple times so sometimes there is "mix ups" or sellers will sell the varieties they have as other varieties just to make $$$. They can do it because you will most likely not know about until the banana fruits say 2 years later.

A pup is also a clone of the mother plant. It is taken directly off the mother plant the natural way. It is usually more expensive because of the shipping. In my openion the best thing about corms is you know where they came from. The seller can show you the mother plant it was removed from and show your its fruit or even taste the fruit. Also the corm size is as big as a softball +-. It also has a much better survival rate than a TC because it has the corm as a backup. Even if the pup dies you have a good chance it will send up pups. The negative is it can have problems if you live in the tropics or even Florida etc.

Re: tissue versus corm or pups
 

Just to clarify and add to what Ty has posted, all banana plants have a corm no matter how they were produced (from tissue culture, a sucker/pup, or even seed). The corm of a banana plant is the true stem and it is where all new roots, shoots and leaves grow from. It is a solid, starchy tuberous-like organ which really in a sense the true core of the plant, and if you were to receive a new sucker that is without a corm (as can easily happen when separating suckers without much experience) the plant will not grow. It is normally mostly underground. What appears to be the above ground stem is called the "pseudostem", and it is kind of like a giant leek, and is composed only of leaf tissue until the plant flowers at which point the corm will send up a true stem through the center of the pseudostem and out of the top to expose the flowers.

Re: tissue versus corm or pups
 

I bought two different ice cream bananas online. Both arrived around the same time. One was a pup and the other was a tiny tissue culture. I was convinced that the pup was much stronger and would take right off. The tissue culture was a concern. I was totally wrong. A year later the tissue culture has already made a flower and a few pups larger than the other stronger looking pup plant. Shocker to me.

Re: tissue versus corm or pups
 

The research suggest better yields from tissue culture plants. You have to invest a lot of work into tissue culture plants before you plant them in the field. Typically, 2-3 months from receipt of the plantlets until they are ready for planting in the field. On the other side, you have the option of planting topped corms or planting sword suckers. I only plant topped corms for multiplication purposes, but you could establish a field that way. With sword suckers you have instantaneous stand. What I like about the sword suckers is that you don't have to be so careful with weed control.

Re: tissue versus corm or pups
 

Research shows that banana plants from TCs generally fruit months (about 10) sooner than plants from corms. Further, research at The UGA has shown some TCs, particularly short cycle types, can be planted and fruited in zone 8 (Georgia). Due to timing problems, late arrival of the plantlets & delayed planting, those 'research' bananas fruited too late in the year after planting to ripen. And several other 'research' banana plant proved to be choked the following spring. They were ready to fruit when temperatures froze. ... However, the Research recommendations was the TCs needed to be conditioned in the greenhouse for 8 to 12 weeks minimum; and started in the greenhouse by November for fruiting to occur by July/June and ripen before frost in Georgia.

By starting TCs in the greenhouse by October/November, the plant will have 4 to 6 months growth by the time it is transplanted to the field with another 6 months to fruit and ripen. This is well within the normal growth & fruiting timing of several banana varieties for zone 8. ... And, this raise the possibility of growing bananas as if it was an annual. Buy new TCs and/or collect any pups to start in the greenhouse by November.

TCs need special care when received from the nursery. Generally, these have not been harden off and not ready to be transplanted to the field. So unless you live in zone 10 ( Florida) I do not recommend planting these outside.

Re: tissue versus corm or pups
 

10 months sooner than a pup.:ha::ha::ha::ha:

your not getting your pups from a good source.

Re: tissue versus corm or pups
 

I should have said 10 months from transplanting of hardened TC. TC references and guides state 9 to 10 months (ref: https://www.researchgate.net/publica...tissue_culture ) and other TC references

While the The UFla for pups/sucker states : "Young plants should be started with 1/2 lb (0.23 kg) of a 6-2-12 or similar formula (3-1-6 ratio) with 2-3% magnesium applied every 2 months, and increasing gradually to 5.0 lb to 6.0 lb (2.3–2.7 kg) at flowering and fruiting time, 10 to 18 months later. "
ref: HS10/MG040: Banana Growing in the Florida Home Landscape

Using the late dates of the two references, that is an 8 month difference of growing times. And, I'm sure a lot has to do with the variety banana being grown.

Re: tissue versus corm or pups
 

Since the OP lives in California, I would just add that the advantages of tissue culture banana plants (in being faster to fruit) seem to fail in marginal climates like CA, where we don't have tropical conditions (hot AND humid). Harvested suckers (pups) produce faster here in my experience and from what I've heard from others.

Re: tissue versus corm or pups
 

I totally agree. The same in my area from experience and what I have heard from others. Especially if you count the 3 months extra a TC takes to get it ready for planting.

On average most varieties I have bloom in 300 days or so. That's 10 months. Then it takes 3-4 months to ripen. So a TC (being 10 months faster) would have to bloom a month before being planted then flower 2 months after planting.

USDA Tars shows many many varieties that have ripe fruit around 300 days. So down there in the tropics your TCs would have to bloom right after you get them. How many inches tall would they be?

Re: tissue versus corm or pups
 

Then tell the Researchers that write about and promote TC banana plantlets, that they are wrong! And CharlieM 's post above (quote below) has to be wrong.

Re: tissue versus corm or pups
 

I'm not wrong. I will take photos if I can figure out how to post them.

Re: tissue versus corm or pups
 

Send them to me and I will post them for you. sir

Re: tissue versus corm or pups
 

There is good and bad ways of doing things. If you torture or kill the pup/corm then it for sure will not compete with the TC. If you do the same to the TC it will not compete with the pup.

All I can go by is the way I have done them. I have had experience with lots of TCs and lots of pups. I can't count how many I have flowered and fruited (turned yellow on the bunch). Maybe my TC way sucks and my pup way is the best who knows. I'm just going by what I do and see.

When you get a pup through the mail is also different than removing a pup on location. Also the way you plant and handle that pup matters a lot. I'm not saying CharlieM is wrong or lieing I am saying he was either sent a bad pup or grew it wrong. The rootball and soil contact with roots I believe is very import and makes a big difference when transplanting bananas from anywhere and to anywhere.

Here is how I do my pups.
Pup is dug or received.
1. Does pup have roots or is corm clean. If rooted with good roots skip to 2. If clean and rootless or rooted with black overwatered roots I cut them all off and it goes into course sand for about 1-2 weeks. After you see 2-3" long white roots anywhere on the corm it goes to potting.
2. Plant pup into a pot only slightly larger than the corm. Not a large pot! Usually a 3 gal shallow is perfect. Mix good potting soil with 50% perlite. Plant the corm.
3. Leaves. If there are leaves I cut all but newest leaf off. (Same before rooting in sand also)
4. Put in full shade and out of the weather (rain). Only water once per week for 2 weeks the. Double to twice per week and start moving into sun as new leaf growth starts.
5. Wait until at lest 3 new leaves push out fully to transplant into the ground. By this time you will have an ok rootball. Nothing major but good enough. Stop watering and let plant completely dry out (week or little more)
6. Transplant only when the plant is totally dry. So dry there is a gap around the top of the pot and soil. Carefully pull out of pot. Be very careful not to disturb the rootball. Sit it into the whole and backfill. Plant an inch shallow so there is plenty room for mulch and topfill the first year.
7. Water in very well and do not pack soil in around the plant. Bananas love loose fluffy soil. After good watering do not water again for 1 week.

If done correctly after the new pup pushes its first leaf (week 3 on average) through the transplant it should keep growing and never pause growth again.

Now everyone has my perfected over the years method. Patent pending haha. And I would also be happy to expand on any part of my method. Just PM me.

Re: tissue versus corm or pups
 

Hi. I sent you a bunch of photos.
Thank you!!!!

Re: tissue versus corm or pups
 

CharlieM photos.
Can anyone identify this plant?
.

Tissue culture on the left
by
Hostafarian, on Flickr
.
Image 3-27-17 at 4.49 PM
by
Hostafarian, on Flickr
.

Image 3-27-17 at 4.46 PM
by
Hostafarian, on Flickr

Re: tissue versus corm or pups
 

Thanks for posting!
The last photo is not an ice cream but I'm not sure what it is.

Re: tissue versus corm or pups
 

For sure not blue java. I'm pretty sure it's tall Namwa but not 100% with those pictures of the flower. I can't zoom in and see great but I believe I see some purple under where the fingers connect. Plant itself looks like tall namwa for sure. The bunch size is throwing me off. The size your plant looks normally has a bunch double that size. It's my best guess though. More pics of the flower at different stages would help.

Look at my picture gallery under the tall namwa folder and compare to see if you can verify it.

Nice looking banana!