Welcome to the Bananas.org forums. You're currently viewing our message boards as a guest which gives you limited access to participate in discussions and access our other features such as our wiki and photo gallery. By joining our community, you'll have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload photos, and access many other special features. Registration is fast and simple, so please join our community today! If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. |
|
Register | Photo Gallery | Classifieds | Wiki | Chat | Map | Today's Posts | Search |
Main Banana Discussion This is where we discuss our banana collections; tips on growing bananas, tips on harvesting bananas, sharing our banana photos and stories. |
Members currently in the chatroom: 0 | |
The most chatters online in one day was 17, 09-06-2009. No one is currently using the chat. |
Email this Page |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools |
03-04-2017, 10:56 PM | #1 (permalink) |
Gone Bananas Sacramento
Location: Sacramento
Zone: 9
Name: Bastsocal
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2
BananaBucks
: 5,068
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 1 Times
Was
Thanked 5 Times in 2 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1 Times
|
tissue versus corm or pups
Hi, I would like to learn the difference between a plant from tissue and one that grows from the corm, if any. Don't they all need the corm to grow?
Thank You! |
Said thanks: |
Sponsors |
03-04-2017, 11:57 PM | #2 (permalink) | |
Banana Plants for Trade
Location: East Texas
Zone: 8b
Name: Ty
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,367
BananaBucks
: 47,629
Feedback: 11 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 4,612 Times
Was
Thanked 3,726 Times in 1,185 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 424 Times
|
Re: tissue versus corm or pups
Quote:
A pup is also a clone of the mother plant. It is taken directly off the mother plant the natural way. It is usually more expensive because of the shipping. In my openion the best thing about corms is you know where they came from. The seller can show you the mother plant it was removed from and show your its fruit or even taste the fruit. Also the corm size is as big as a softball +-. It also has a much better survival rate than a TC because it has the corm as a backup. Even if the pup dies you have a good chance it will send up pups. The negative is it can have problems if you live in the tropics or even Florida etc.
__________________
150+ Varieties!!. See profile for list. Help me add more!
|
|
Said thanks: |
03-05-2017, 01:31 PM | #3 (permalink) |
Moderator
Location: Oahu, Hawaii
Zone: 12
Name: Gabe
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,892
BananaBucks
: 13,339,529
Feedback: 5 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 1 Times
Was
Thanked 8,237 Times in 2,200 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 8 Times
|
Re: tissue versus corm or pups
Just to clarify and add to what Ty has posted, all banana plants have a corm no matter how they were produced (from tissue culture, a sucker/pup, or even seed). The corm of a banana plant is the true stem and it is where all new roots, shoots and leaves grow from. It is a solid, starchy tuberous-like organ which really in a sense the true core of the plant, and if you were to receive a new sucker that is without a corm (as can easily happen when separating suckers without much experience) the plant will not grow. It is normally mostly underground. What appears to be the above ground stem is called the "pseudostem", and it is kind of like a giant leek, and is composed only of leaf tissue until the plant flowers at which point the corm will send up a true stem through the center of the pseudostem and out of the top to expose the flowers.
__________________
Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties. |
Said thanks: |
03-24-2017, 05:14 AM | #4 (permalink) |
Location: South Florida
Zone: Zone 10a
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 6
BananaBucks
: 496
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 0 Times
Was
Thanked 5 Times in 2 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
|
Re: tissue versus corm or pups
I bought two different ice cream bananas online. Both arrived around the same time. One was a pup and the other was a tiny tissue culture. I was convinced that the pup was much stronger and would take right off. The tissue culture was a concern. I was totally wrong. A year later the tissue culture has already made a flower and a few pups larger than the other stronger looking pup plant. Shocker to me.
|
03-24-2017, 09:34 PM | #5 (permalink) |
Muck bananas
Location: Pahokee, FL
Zone: 10
Name: Nick
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,217
BananaBucks
: 460,526
Feedback: 7 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 66 Times
Was
Thanked 5,663 Times in 1,562 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 7 Times
|
Re: tissue versus corm or pups
The research suggest better yields from tissue culture plants. You have to invest a lot of work into tissue culture plants before you plant them in the field. Typically, 2-3 months from receipt of the plantlets until they are ready for planting in the field. On the other side, you have the option of planting topped corms or planting sword suckers. I only plant topped corms for multiplication purposes, but you could establish a field that way. With sword suckers you have instantaneous stand. What I like about the sword suckers is that you don't have to be so careful with weed control.
|
Said thanks: |
Sponsors |
03-25-2017, 08:23 AM | #6 (permalink) | |
Location: Cairo, Ga
Zone: 8b
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,891
BananaBucks
: 88,661
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 1,741 Times
Was
Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,095 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 414 Times
|
Re: tissue versus corm or pups
Quote:
By starting TCs in the greenhouse by October/November, the plant will have 4 to 6 months growth by the time it is transplanted to the field with another 6 months to fruit and ripen. This is well within the normal growth & fruiting timing of several banana varieties for zone 8. ... And, this raise the possibility of growing bananas as if it was an annual. Buy new TCs and/or collect any pups to start in the greenhouse by November. TCs need special care when received from the nursery. Generally, these have not been harden off and not ready to be transplanted to the field. So unless you live in zone 10 ( Florida) I do not recommend planting these outside. |
|
Said thanks: |
03-25-2017, 10:59 AM | #7 (permalink) |
Banana Plants for Trade
Location: East Texas
Zone: 8b
Name: Ty
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,367
BananaBucks
: 47,629
Feedback: 11 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 4,612 Times
Was
Thanked 3,726 Times in 1,185 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 424 Times
|
Re: tissue versus corm or pups
10 months sooner than a pup.
your not getting your pups from a good source.
__________________
150+ Varieties!!. See profile for list. Help me add more!
|
Said thanks: |
03-26-2017, 10:49 AM | #8 (permalink) | |
Location: Cairo, Ga
Zone: 8b
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,891
BananaBucks
: 88,661
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 1,741 Times
Was
Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,095 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 414 Times
|
Re: tissue versus corm or pups
Quote:
While the The UFla for pups/sucker states : "Young plants should be started with 1/2 lb (0.23 kg) of a 6-2-12 or similar formula (3-1-6 ratio) with 2-3% magnesium applied every 2 months, and increasing gradually to 5.0 lb to 6.0 lb (2.3–2.7 kg) at flowering and fruiting time, 10 to 18 months later. " ref: HS10/MG040: Banana Growing in the Florida Home Landscape Using the late dates of the two references, that is an 8 month difference of growing times. And, I'm sure a lot has to do with the variety banana being grown. |
|
Said thanks: |
03-26-2017, 11:14 AM | #9 (permalink) |
Location: Ventura, CA
Zone: 10
Name: Mark
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,845
BananaBucks
: 238,856
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 1,752 Times
Was
Thanked 3,968 Times in 1,713 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 39 Times
|
Re: tissue versus corm or pups
Since the OP lives in California, I would just add that the advantages of tissue culture banana plants (in being faster to fruit) seem to fail in marginal climates like CA, where we don't have tropical conditions (hot AND humid). Harvested suckers (pups) produce faster here in my experience and from what I've heard from others.
|
Said thanks: |
03-26-2017, 02:08 PM | #10 (permalink) | |
Banana Plants for Trade
Location: East Texas
Zone: 8b
Name: Ty
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,367
BananaBucks
: 47,629
Feedback: 11 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 4,612 Times
Was
Thanked 3,726 Times in 1,185 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 424 Times
|
Re: tissue versus corm or pups
Quote:
On average most varieties I have bloom in 300 days or so. That's 10 months. Then it takes 3-4 months to ripen. So a TC (being 10 months faster) would have to bloom a month before being planted then flower 2 months after planting. USDA Tars shows many many varieties that have ripe fruit around 300 days. So down there in the tropics your TCs would have to bloom right after you get them. How many inches tall would they be?
__________________
150+ Varieties!!. See profile for list. Help me add more!
|
|
Said thanks: |
03-26-2017, 04:45 PM | #11 (permalink) | |
Location: Cairo, Ga
Zone: 8b
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,891
BananaBucks
: 88,661
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 1,741 Times
Was
Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,095 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 414 Times
|
Re: tissue versus corm or pups
Then tell the Researchers that write about and promote TC banana plantlets, that they are wrong! And CharlieM 's post above (quote below) has to be wrong.
Quote:
Last edited by edwmax : 03-26-2017 at 04:51 PM. |
|
Said thanks: |
03-26-2017, 07:31 PM | #12 (permalink) |
Location: South Florida
Zone: Zone 10a
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 6
BananaBucks
: 496
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 0 Times
Was
Thanked 5 Times in 2 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
|
Re: tissue versus corm or pups
I'm not wrong. I will take photos if I can figure out how to post them.
Last edited by CharlieM : 03-26-2017 at 07:39 PM. |
03-26-2017, 07:47 PM | #13 (permalink) | |
container grower Location: Southwest Ohio U.S.A.🇺🇸
Zone: HZ 6/5 Microclimate - Elevation 750 feet- 228.60 meters
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 8,782
BananaBucks
: 584
Feedback: 7 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 3,865 Times
Was
Thanked 11,705 Times in 4,870 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,943 Times
|
Re: tissue versus corm or pups
Quote:
Send them to me and I will post them for you. sir |
|
Said thanks: |
03-26-2017, 10:30 PM | #14 (permalink) |
Banana Plants for Trade
Location: East Texas
Zone: 8b
Name: Ty
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,367
BananaBucks
: 47,629
Feedback: 11 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 4,612 Times
Was
Thanked 3,726 Times in 1,185 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 424 Times
|
Re: tissue versus corm or pups
There is good and bad ways of doing things. If you torture or kill the pup/corm then it for sure will not compete with the TC. If you do the same to the TC it will not compete with the pup.
All I can go by is the way I have done them. I have had experience with lots of TCs and lots of pups. I can't count how many I have flowered and fruited (turned yellow on the bunch). Maybe my TC way sucks and my pup way is the best who knows. I'm just going by what I do and see. When you get a pup through the mail is also different than removing a pup on location. Also the way you plant and handle that pup matters a lot. I'm not saying CharlieM is wrong or lieing I am saying he was either sent a bad pup or grew it wrong. The rootball and soil contact with roots I believe is very import and makes a big difference when transplanting bananas from anywhere and to anywhere. Here is how I do my pups. Pup is dug or received. 1. Does pup have roots or is corm clean. If rooted with good roots skip to 2. If clean and rootless or rooted with black overwatered roots I cut them all off and it goes into course sand for about 1-2 weeks. After you see 2-3" long white roots anywhere on the corm it goes to potting. 2. Plant pup into a pot only slightly larger than the corm. Not a large pot! Usually a 3 gal shallow is perfect. Mix good potting soil with 50% perlite. Plant the corm. 3. Leaves. If there are leaves I cut all but newest leaf off. (Same before rooting in sand also) 4. Put in full shade and out of the weather (rain). Only water once per week for 2 weeks the. Double to twice per week and start moving into sun as new leaf growth starts. 5. Wait until at lest 3 new leaves push out fully to transplant into the ground. By this time you will have an ok rootball. Nothing major but good enough. Stop watering and let plant completely dry out (week or little more) 6. Transplant only when the plant is totally dry. So dry there is a gap around the top of the pot and soil. Carefully pull out of pot. Be very careful not to disturb the rootball. Sit it into the whole and backfill. Plant an inch shallow so there is plenty room for mulch and topfill the first year. 7. Water in very well and do not pack soil in around the plant. Bananas love loose fluffy soil. After good watering do not water again for 1 week. If done correctly after the new pup pushes its first leaf (week 3 on average) through the transplant it should keep growing and never pause growth again. Now everyone has my perfected over the years method. Patent pending haha. And I would also be happy to expand on any part of my method. Just PM me.
__________________
150+ Varieties!!. See profile for list. Help me add more!
|
03-27-2017, 02:59 PM | #15 (permalink) |
Location: South Florida
Zone: Zone 10a
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 6
BananaBucks
: 496
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 0 Times
Was
Thanked 5 Times in 2 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
|
Re: tissue versus corm or pups
|
03-27-2017, 04:08 PM | #16 (permalink) | |
container grower Location: Southwest Ohio U.S.A.🇺🇸
Zone: HZ 6/5 Microclimate - Elevation 750 feet- 228.60 meters
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 8,782
BananaBucks
: 584
Feedback: 7 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 3,865 Times
Was
Thanked 11,705 Times in 4,870 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,943 Times
|
Re: tissue versus corm or pups
Quote:
Can anyone identify this plant? . Tissue culture on the left by Hostafarian, on Flickr . Image 3-27-17 at 4.49 PM by Hostafarian, on Flickr . Image 3-27-17 at 4.46 PM by Hostafarian, on Flickr |
|
Sponsors |
03-27-2017, 04:45 PM | #17 (permalink) |
Location: South Florida
Zone: Zone 10a
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 6
BananaBucks
: 496
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 0 Times
Was
Thanked 5 Times in 2 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
|
Re: tissue versus corm or pups
Thanks for posting!
The last photo is not an ice cream but I'm not sure what it is. |
03-27-2017, 09:59 PM | #18 (permalink) | |
Banana Plants for Trade
Location: East Texas
Zone: 8b
Name: Ty
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,367
BananaBucks
: 47,629
Feedback: 11 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 4,612 Times
Was
Thanked 3,726 Times in 1,185 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 424 Times
|
Re: tissue versus corm or pups
Quote:
Look at my picture gallery under the tall namwa folder and compare to see if you can verify it. Nice looking banana!
__________________
150+ Varieties!!. See profile for list. Help me add more!
|
|
Email this Page |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Four ARH pups from a little piece of corm | bananimal | Main Banana Discussion | 2 | 07-10-2013 01:42 PM |
SDC versus Mini SDC | GreenFin | Main Banana Discussion | 3 | 01-29-2012 04:24 PM |
? about Corm & pups w/pictures | jen | Main Banana Discussion | 10 | 03-01-2009 04:14 PM |
Gates versus GM | JoeReal | Tiki Hut | 3 | 02-13-2007 10:25 AM |
Ice Cream Mother Corm with Pups | Southern-Grower | Banana Plants For Sale & Auction | 1 | 08-18-2005 12:17 PM |