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Main Banana Discussion This is where we discuss our banana collections; tips on growing bananas, tips on harvesting bananas, sharing our banana photos and stories.


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Old 01-18-2008, 10:35 AM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Default Seeds and chemicals

1. Ok i heard that pouring boiling water over banana seeds wil remove the chemicals that prevent germination, i did this with palm seeds with thick coating for a few years and it did no harm to them.

did someone tried this with nanner seeds ?

2. banana seeds naturally are in ground with lots of bacteria and fungus, wil sterile ground - reduce the overall germination rate - ?

3. In the wild nanners seeds wil rot in the banana, my point is that al the fruit contains yeast. Yeast wil increase when the banana fruit rots is this of any importance ?

4. after a while ( got seeds for 3 months now ) do they need a re-soak for 48 hours or are they still ok ?

5. did some1 experimented with germination seeds in the garden outside ?

6. scarifiing seeds ? helps or not helps ? coincidence ? or is this really helpful
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Old 01-18-2008, 01:58 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Seeds and chemicals

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Originally Posted by Lodewijkp View Post
1. Ok i heard that pouring boiling water over banana seeds wil remove the chemicals that prevent germination, i did this with palm seeds with thick coating for a few years and it did no harm to them.

did someone tried this with nanner seeds ?
some of the data coming from one my grad students in my lab indicates that many of these "dormancy chemicals" lie in the outer seeds tissue; endosperm, seed coat, integuments, or chalazal mass. he has also tried fire and it removed the micropylar plug which when sowed on soilless mix lead to fungus & rot. my thoughts are that boiling water may have the same effect on the micropylar plug.

evidence is strong that the chemicals controlling dormancy lie within the seed; excised embryos in our lab exhibit no dormancy and are easily cultured aseptically.

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2. banana seeds naturally are in ground with lots of bacteria and fungus, wil sterile ground - reduce the overall germination rate - ?
the same student tested substrates and got equal germination rate on peat (peat based mix or peat pellets), paper towel, agar, phytogel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodewijkp View Post
3. In the wild nanners seeds wil rot in the banana, my point is that al the fruit contains yeast. Yeast wil increase when the banana fruit rots is this of any importance ?
i am currently running a trial that is somewhat similar to this but focusing not on yeast but instead on gases released by decay. yeast most likely will not directly aid germination but the gases they release may.

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4. after a while ( got seeds for 3 months now ) do they need a re-soak for 48 hours or are they still ok ?
i'll leave this for some one else, our seeds are fresh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodewijkp View Post
5. did some1 experimented with germination seeds in the garden outside ?
i'll leave this for some one else, we only germinate using sterile mix or TC media.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodewijkp View Post
6. scarifiing seeds ? helps or not helps ? coincidence ? or is this really helpful
most of our data indicates that chemical scarification actually reduced germination and mechanical scarification helped germination but only under sterile conditions - when mechanically scarified seeds were sown on various substrates in the greenhouse they failed to germinate, when examined the interior of the seed was decayed.
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Old 01-18-2008, 05:03 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Seeds and chemicals

I know and have done it myself that laying Balsa seeds for about 10 minutes
in water just below the cooking point increases the germination rate significantly. Now, I don't know if this is tested with banana seeds but it
would be interesting.

Other point..

I think the best seeds to germinate in the garden would be sikkimensis
in the summer when the days are warm and the nights cooler, thats what
they like.

Ron
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Old 01-18-2008, 05:25 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Seeds and chemicals

i should clarify what i said above about trying fire-related cues; he tried heat without fire (heating the seed), fire itself (flash flaming the seed), and heating the soil (with present).
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Old 01-18-2008, 05:28 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Seeds and chemicals

AllenF put some of Randy's Musa Velutinas in 130F soak and none of then sprouted he believes killed them all

here is thread about the experiments
OK>>>> Seeds are ready on the velutina!!!
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Old 01-18-2008, 07:39 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Seeds and chemicals

It's a fine line between breaking down the seed coat and cooking the embryo inside. I don't think I'd advise boiling. I get horticulturally related questions at work alot (as I'm a horticulturist-go figure!) and someone just recently asked me about boiling bluebonnet (Lupine) seeds to overcome dormancy. Again, I advised against it.
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Old 01-18-2008, 08:03 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Seeds and chemicals

Maybe take a look at what happens naturally in the wild. It's inside fruit, the fruit rots on the ground, it decays, and when spring rolls around.. walah sprouting seeds.
Tomato seeds for one don't sprout if the slimy coating is removed from the seed before drying, maybe it would help for some banana seeds.
Maybe get a bird to swallow, and poop it out.
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Old 01-18-2008, 08:15 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Seeds and chemicals

That is so true, i always try to look at plants from that point of view, but WE want a germination rate of 100% if possible. So the question is, what is the
germination rate in nature from the different species. Maybe 1 out of 1000
who knows?
Plants who produce a lot of seeds have a reason to do this. I think the germination rate in nature is very low else
a bunch of velutina for instance would not have had so many seeds.

But maybe I am wrong.

Ron

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Old 01-18-2008, 08:38 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Seeds and chemicals

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Originally Posted by Tropicallvr View Post
Maybe take a look at what happens naturally in the wild. It's inside fruit, the fruit rots on the ground, it decays, and when spring rolls around.. walah sprouting seeds.
that is exactly what my research is addressing, my answer to his question #3.
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