Kostas

Hello!

This past spring,a very generous member here,Cheson,sent me 2 nice pups from his real 'Ice Cream' mat They both underwent bleach treatment to kill any banana pests and specific treatment with Steinernema carpocapsae nematodes to kill any weevil hitchhikers. One pup had extensive tunneling inside it and weird corm texture, but the other was great,1-2 short tunnels if any at all and a very healthy corm and pseudostem. The first pup ended up rotting whole but the other soon began growth and had replaced all its old,cut leaf bases by mid-summer. Then for some reason it choked and the growing center pierced the side of the base of the pseudostem and started growing from there. Now this new pseudostem is as tall as it was in mid-summer and doing well.
Here are some half-week old pictures of it!






I look forward to see it big and to making the new planters i have long planned to make,so as to ground plant it along with many other varieties waiting in pots.

Thank you very very much Cheson for sending me those pups of this great variety! I appreciate it a lot! And of course its all worth it for the one that made it!

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cheson74

Sorry the other one didn't make the trip. The Matt those ice creams came from is very prolific. In in the year and half since I planted it, it's fruited 3 times.

I keep saying I'm going to dig up the Matt but it keeps on fruiting!

In glad the one pup is doing well.

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Kostas

Wow,your Ice Cream mat is extremely vigorous! And the bunch photos you have posted of it show very good sized harvests as well! I think this mat knows what its doing and is trying to grow on you! After all those bunches i am almost sure its working! I know it would work very well on me!

Thank you very much for sending me this awesome variety! I hope it does well till i can ground plant it! Seems to be ready for repotting but will probably leave it for spring unless the weather is predicted to be especially conductive to banana growth. I have been growing it in Melissia which are located at 330m above sea level and are therefore far from ideal for banana growth,especially at my latitude. But i will move it to Pyrgos for overwintering(as i do with all medium size and up, bananas) which is at 30m above sea level and has daily highs up to 25C even in December,so i may even repot this year

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PR-Giants

Weevils are easy to kill, but eggs are very difficult to destroy.

If it had a tunnel it has eggs, and if there were no tunnels it could still have eggs.

The way you described the 2nd pups, if it was a plantain I would certainly expect it to currently have weevils.

I am surprised a corm with tunnels would pass any inspection, aside from Swiss or Baby Swiss.

Nematodes

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Kostas

The bleach treatment alone should be able to kill all stages of the weevils. Steinernema carpocapsae nematodes are extremely effective in killing weevils and their larvae,especially when the tunnels are underground like with banana weevils and even if any eggs survived,the larvae would immediately fall prey to the nematodes. Both corms have been weevil free since the bleach treatment and even before it,I saw no weevil or larvae,only tunnels. I thoroughly checked the dead pup and its soil before disposing of it to waste for incineration,and there was no weevil or larvae anywhere. I also maintained the pots above water filled containers so that any emerging weevils wouldn't be able to change pots or go anywhere and there were no weevils to be found all those months in the water traps nor in hiding spaces below the pot. All bananas have even preventively treated with the insect pathogenic nematodes which persist in the soil and are totally effective at eradicating borers,so weevils could not possibly survive in any way,especially in such small corms! I must say I added the nematodes after the choking event so,can't know if weevils could be to blame but I saw none and no pseudostem damage. I have had choking on establishing pups before too. The bleach treatment is also a little harsh on the plants and the growing center an do funny things and grow strange leafs during the first months as it can be affected by it,especially when there are bruises on a pup and the bleach enters through them.

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PR-Giants

I'm not sure if you're trying to be serious, but jic.

I've been studying weevils for 2 decades and every year I dissect hundreds of treated corms and many more that were not treated.

Weevils are everywhere in PR and can be a major problem, total eradication is a fantasy.

"Adults are not strong flyers and only cover short distances."

"Some nematodes, (Steinerma and Heterorhabditis spp.) attack both adults and grubs in the field, but economic cost and their efficacy limit their use on a large scale."

I don't use pesticides, but would've in this situation and with a cost of less than a penny.

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Kostas

Eradication is only a fantasy on large scale,not on small scale. One does can get a remote located field rid from them with nematodes but as they say,economic reasons make that not easily applicable to banana growers. I am not a grower for income and can and have and do from time to time treat all my banana mats with nematodes preventively,in case any borer has come my way. About 2 years ago,i had problems with a borer tunneling into banana pseudostems in Melissia and causing rot but after a couple nematode treatments of all my bananas,i never saw damage again. Note that i had never imported bananas from tropical areas back then. This time i did,i took all possible measures to eradicate all known banana pests that could come along with the pups. I have studied borers at our Forest Research Institute and did a study on Rhynchophorus ferrugineus which plagues palms here in Greece. Steinernema carpocapsae was found to be the most effective treatment for this borer and other borers tested(spruce borers),with 98% killing efficiency in palms compared to at most 70% for chemicals. So i trust my nematodes better than any chemical for taking care of borers. I have a palm garden with rare species which i spray monthly with nematodes so these nematodes are always abundant in my garden and soils. No banana borer could survive in my garden and bananas are not grown anywhere in the general area my garden is. In this environment,eradication is easy.
In addition to that,i have quarantined the pups and found nothing showing the presence of nematodes. If there were any,i would have known by now as i have various potted bananas in the area i placed the Ice Cream after it cleared quarantine with 2 treatments of Steinernema carpocapsae. All bananas and palms around got treated as well. Any surviving borer couldnt help it but get infected in this environment. Also,as literature mentions,flying is extremely rare and with so many bananas around it and none in the general area,it would have nowhere to go...

I am sure you know your weevils,we are just in completely different environments and circumstances

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sunfish

As long as you got a sanitary certification shouldn't be a problem

Kostas

Rhynchophorus ferrugineus came here with phytosanitary certified palms to give you an idea on how accurate and safe we are with certified plants...I treat plants according to pests in country of origin regardless of certifications and quarantine till i am sure they are free from such pests Borers are hard to check for accurately as are important disease causing fungi,bacteria and virus in bareroot and otherwise healthy appearing plants. Only quarantine and time allows it to become apparent wether a plant is free from such diseases unfortunately. I have gotten some certified orchids with nasty bacterial diseases in the past too. To the incinerator they went as have bananas with BSV.

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sunfish

I believe it makes it safe for the person sending the plant

Kostas

Greece doesnt have such problems,if something comes without a Phyto,it just gets sent back or incinerated(or tested and treated from the local phytosanitary department in a few cases),whatever the receiver wishes. No penalties to either person.

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sunfish

whatever you say

Richard

If I lived in USDA zone 11 or 12, it would be interesting to grow Blue Java, or even Saba! For lesser zones I wouldn't bother. Some of you more determined folks might try and have good success :}

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caliboy1994

I'm doing Blue Java in the ground in zone 9b.

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Kostas

Thanks Richard It will be planted in zone 9b/10a. This subgroup seems to tolerate cooler temperatures very well and damage less easily than other varieties,although the Mysore subgroup is a winner when leaf hardiness is concerned and the 'Red Iholene' a winner for speed in cool weather(2x what my other varieties grow!). 'Saba' is on my list as well to grow eventually but the 'Kandrian' I am growing is huge enough too!

Well done Andreas,your is quite big already,looking forward to seeing yours mature and producing soon!

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caliboy1994

Thanks! I'm hoping for a flower bud next summer if all goes well!

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Kostas

I wish you to get it and be big!!!

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PR-Giants

Depending on the context, that could be true.

A weevil on the ground will rarely fly.

A weevil in a pot will rarely fly before encircling the edge of the pot at least once.

If you use water traps, adding soap will lowering the surface tension of the water.

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PR-Giants

Think about those numbers.

No Government would think a shipment that contained 2% weevils was a good thing.

In a pot with the correct pesticide you will be close to 100%.

It's over, it's done good luck, but this is how bad things happen.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

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Kostas

Thanks Keith I really have done my research and wouldn't allow any possibility of establishing weevils or any other pest here. I worked in conjunction with the Forestry Research Institute and learned to be effective at that.

Regarding the numbers,these are for each treatment. I treated twice which means I also got the 98% of any possible 2% left from the previous application,which means all. Also,nematode killing efficiency is virtually 100% in underground borers as that is the favored habitat of those nematodes and persist in the soil.

What you say is very true but when good intentions are coupled with knowledge and effective protocols,hell is avoided! We kept various quarantine insects,nematodes and fungi and know proper quarantine and treatment procedures.

Happy growing! I always love seeing pictures of your place and bananas!

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