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Main Banana Discussion This is where we discuss our banana collections; tips on growing bananas, tips on harvesting bananas, sharing our banana photos and stories.


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Old 05-31-2021, 11:45 AM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Default Question about Banana Mats/Corms

So everyone usually agrees that removing excess suckers allows the main plant(s) to grow better by allowing the corm to focus more energy on it.

But what about getting the corm to grow faster...
I have a theory that leaving the Mat alone allows the corm to grow much faster by getting way more energy from all the plants combined because it essentially creates a giant solar array. Am I correct in this?

I'm testing this out, I have a couple new Orinoco Mats I started last year from single suckers.
One of my mats is completely untouched and is growing at an unprecedented rate even after dying back this crazy winter.

It started off with a main plant and 2 water suckers. Now it has 9 plants growing and the last 5 plants have all been sword suckers meaning the corm has grown a lot and has plenty of energy. Banana growth on all the plants has seemed unaffected and just keeps skyrocketing. I've left all water suckers on and while they started off growing slowly they have now picked up the pace. I can only imagine the corm has grown a ton.

So am I correct in this theory?
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From Corm/Pup
Dwarf Cavendish ○ Super Dwarf Cavendish ○ Grand Nain ○ Niño ○ Manzano ○ Raja Puri ○ Tall Namwah ○ Blue Java ○ 1000 Fingers ○ Praying Hands ○ Orinoco ○ Variegated Florida ○ PR Red ○ California Gold ○ FHIA-03 Sweetheart

Plantains
Puerto Rican Dwarf Plantain ○ African Rhino Horn

From TC
Truly Tiny ○ Manzano ○ "Blue Java" ○ Dwarf Namwah ○ Thai Black ○ Veinte Cohol

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Old 05-31-2021, 08:59 PM   #2 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Question about Banana Mats/Corms

Every crowded cluster of bananas I see really doesn’t grow as fast as plants that have less pups around.
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Old 05-31-2021, 10:10 PM   #3 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Question about Banana Mats/Corms

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Old 06-01-2021, 06:39 AM   #4 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Question about Banana Mats/Corms

Wow! That's a giant mat at that drive-thru

Any idea what it is? Zebrina?
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Varieties I'm Growing

From Corm/Pup
Dwarf Cavendish ○ Super Dwarf Cavendish ○ Grand Nain ○ Niño ○ Manzano ○ Raja Puri ○ Tall Namwah ○ Blue Java ○ 1000 Fingers ○ Praying Hands ○ Orinoco ○ Variegated Florida ○ PR Red ○ California Gold ○ FHIA-03 Sweetheart

Plantains
Puerto Rican Dwarf Plantain ○ African Rhino Horn

From TC
Truly Tiny ○ Manzano ○ "Blue Java" ○ Dwarf Namwah ○ Thai Black ○ Veinte Cohol
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Old 06-01-2021, 10:48 AM   #5 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Question about Banana Mats/Corms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valor_X View Post
So everyone usually agrees that removing excess suckers allows the main plant(s) to grow better by allowing the corm to focus more energy on it.

But what about getting the corm to grow faster...
I have a theory that leaving the Mat alone allows the corm to grow much faster by getting way more energy from all the plants combined because it essentially creates a giant solar array. Am I correct in this?

I'm testing this out, I have a couple new Orinoco Mats I started last year from single suckers.
One of my mats is completely untouched and is growing at an unprecedented rate even after dying back this crazy winter.

It started off with a main plant and 2 water suckers. Now it has 9 plants growing and the last 5 plants have all been sword suckers meaning the corm has grown a lot and has plenty of energy. Banana growth on all the plants has seemed unaffected and just keeps skyrocketing. I've left all water suckers on and while they started off growing slowly they have now picked up the pace. I can only imagine the corm has grown a ton.

So am I correct in this theory?
Do you have a control mat i.e. with one parent-one follower for the next season to compare the growth rates? Try to keep the conditions as similar as possible. Look forward to your report.

Good luck!
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Old 06-01-2021, 03:07 PM   #6 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Question about Banana Mats/Corms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valor_X View Post
Wow! That's a giant mat at that drive-thru

Any idea what it is? Zebrina?
they look like bordelon



Last edited by wstrickland1 : 06-01-2021 at 03:09 PM.
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Old 06-01-2021, 04:57 PM   #7 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Question about Banana Mats/Corms

Quote:
Originally Posted by wstrickland1 View Post
they look like bordelon


Speaking of mats, that looks great! Bordelon is definitely very unique, the red undersides combined with the stem color is beautiful
__________________
Varieties I'm Growing

From Corm/Pup
Dwarf Cavendish ○ Super Dwarf Cavendish ○ Grand Nain ○ Niño ○ Manzano ○ Raja Puri ○ Tall Namwah ○ Blue Java ○ 1000 Fingers ○ Praying Hands ○ Orinoco ○ Variegated Florida ○ PR Red ○ California Gold ○ FHIA-03 Sweetheart

Plantains
Puerto Rican Dwarf Plantain ○ African Rhino Horn

From TC
Truly Tiny ○ Manzano ○ "Blue Java" ○ Dwarf Namwah ○ Thai Black ○ Veinte Cohol
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Old 06-01-2021, 07:20 PM   #8 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Question about Banana Mats/Corms

Thanks but that was later last year. They died almost all the way back, some maybe 8" but more were less. They're making a comeback as always. Nice enough to hack something off I think.

I was thinking they look like the plants in the picture above.
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Old 06-01-2021, 07:37 PM   #9 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Question about Banana Mats/Corms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valor_X View Post
So everyone usually agrees that removing excess suckers allows the main plant(s) to grow better by allowing the corm to focus more energy on it.

But what about getting the corm to grow faster...
I have a theory that leaving the Mat alone allows the corm to grow much faster by getting way more energy from all the plants combined because it essentially creates a giant solar array. Am I correct in this?

I'm testing this out, I have a couple new Orinoco Mats I started last year from single suckers.
One of my mats is completely untouched and is growing at an unprecedented rate even after dying back this crazy winter.

It started off with a main plant and 2 water suckers. Now it has 9 plants growing and the last 5 plants have all been sword suckers meaning the corm has grown a lot and has plenty of energy. Banana growth on all the plants has seemed unaffected and just keeps skyrocketing. I've left all water suckers on and while they started off growing slowly they have now picked up the pace. I can only imagine the corm has grown a ton.

So am I correct in this theory?

I have no problem with my mats doing this. I even have several stalks fruiting at the same time. .... As for the new pups, they do not draw that much nutrients away from the central corm. But, the new pups do soon start contributing to the 'collective' as their roots grow. ... I have stated many times in my post that I do not thin out new pups from the existing mats.
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Old 06-01-2021, 10:08 PM   #10 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Question about Banana Mats/Corms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valor_X View Post
Wow! That's a giant mat at that drive-thru

Any idea what it is? Zebrina?
They are pretty...not sure what they are. They look too red to be Cavendish.
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Old 06-03-2021, 09:23 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Question about Banana Mats/Corms

Large/older mats usually require a lot of fertilizer and water! I notice for the first 5-7 years they do great but seem to really drop off after awhile. I have researched every aspect of cycle speed and ways to get them to flower and fill the fastest possible. In my trials and opinion single pstems planted on a diagonal spacing of about 5’ do best. 6’ for larger plants. Also planting in “blocks”. Not just a row. Each plant helps shade the ground for its neighbor. Helps weed control and water retention.
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Old 06-11-2021, 07:27 PM   #12 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Question about Banana Mats/Corms

What about when fruiting not a priority.....or even really a possibility.

If I want to get a basjoo as absolutely tall as possible over our relatively narrow growing period, short of protecting 10 feet of P-stem for winter, do you all think I should be removing none, some, most, all pups (leaving one of course as a replacement should that ever be necessary)?
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Old 06-12-2021, 01:12 AM   #13 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Question about Banana Mats/Corms

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirdoofus View Post
What about when fruiting not a priority.....or even really a possibility.

If I want to get a basjoo as absolutely tall as possible over our relatively narrow growing period, short of protecting 10 feet of P-stem for winter, do you all think I should be removing none, some, most, all pups (leaving one of course as a replacement should that ever be necessary)?
I know they say mother- daughter- and granddaughter, but I’m probably just going to keep my mother plant and a daughter (next generation) and remove all other pups.
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Old 06-12-2021, 01:42 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: Question about Banana Mats/Corms

I agree. Just keep between 2-4 pstems per mat for max growth. Basjoo can be a heavy pupper so don’t butcher the corm or anything. I always look at the pstem/coem/pups as a pizza cut into 4 quarters. Only cut pups in 1 quarter at a time. Let that quarter heal about 2 weeks before cutting another quarter, etc. Just how I do it. Pups also prevent your tall plants from blowing over in high wind. So consider leaving them in the direction wind comes from. Just how I do it.

Good luck.
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Old 06-12-2021, 06:12 AM   #15 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Question about Banana Mats/Corms

My namwah patch has gotten out of control to a degree with pups. I have 7 original namwah and was trying to keep only one follower but that became difficult without removing 5 or 6 pups per plant at a time. Like Ty said, I now try to manage 3-4 stems per mat. Last year, I left a large sword sucker in addition to my follower.. so 3 plants on that mat.. the mat next to it had 6 stems. This years follower on the mat with more stems is at least 18 inches taller than the mat with fewer stems. May just be genetic, but it may indicate a larger corm with all the extra stems. I intend to to to keep 4 or less per mat, but all the mats have fruit so dont want to shock the corm with heavy pup removal.
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Old 06-12-2021, 12:58 PM   #16 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Question about Banana Mats/Corms

Thanks guys - My basjoo is at the point now where I need to decide how I am going to manage it or it will start producing a lot of pups.

I have pulled off several small ones already this year (following your quarter pie recommendations Ty from a previous post, thank you) and there are 2 still there from last year on the lee side (low pressure system winds anyway) that are a little bigger which I might leave, and let one grow on the windward side.....I didn't even think about wind susceptibility from removing pups, but it makes sense....luckily this plant will more than likely be under several feet of mulch and a can before we get our high winds here.

Thanks again for the info!!
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