Pup After Fruiting?

RandyGHO · 07-31-2012, 04:18 PM

After a banana plant fruits and the pseudostem is cut off, will the old mother corm produce a new pup?

LilRaverBoi · 07-31-2012, 04:26 PM

Well, bananas can pup at any stage of growth. Some varieties pup more than others (and Ensete's do not pup at all, unless artificially forced to). But to answer the question, yes, after a plant fruits, that pseudostem will die off and a new pup/plant will form from the corm to take its place.

caliboy1994 · 07-31-2012, 04:26 PM

Yes, unless you have an Ensete.

sunfish · 07-31-2012, 04:44 PM

The p-stem dies not the corm

RandyGHO · 07-31-2012, 05:37 PM

Thanks for the replies. That is just what I wanted to know.

I am trying to work up my winter protection covers. Having a single pseudostem makes an in-ground, winter protection device simpler to build

Also I want every bit of energy to go into the mother plant to gain as much on fruiting height as I can this year. I want to keep the suckers trimmed off at least till the first frost if not till the plant fruits.

I know it is common to have three generations in a mat. I wonder though in zones like 8b if concentrating on a single pseudostem might give me just enough edge to fruit in the second year from a TC?

PR-Giants · 07-31-2012, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyGHO

I know it is common to have three generations in a mat. I wonder though in zones like 8b if concentrating on a single pseudostem might give me just enough edge to fruit in the second year from a TC?

It may be common, but I can only confirm seeing it once.
In order to have 3 generations in a mat, you need the mother to have a pup and then that pup to have a pup before the mother plant is havested.
About 9 months ago I had a maricongo with many large pups fall due to high winds. I stood the plant back up and today I harvested fruit from one of the original pups (6 hands, 30 fruit, 18.9 pounds) and the corm of that plant has pups. The mother plant is still alive and has not flowered, so that is 3 generations in one mat.
That was the first time I saw a pup fruit before it's mother set fruit.
If my way of counting generations is wrong, someone please correct me.

sunfish · 07-31-2012, 10:41 PM

I think it means three plants of different age.Could be mother with two pups

LilRaverBoi · 07-31-2012, 11:05 PM

Honestly, I don't know that having pups or removing them makes any difference in overwintering. Around here (zone 5-6), even that which is cut off near the base, mulched heavily and overwintered (basjoo) can achieve 8+ feet and blooming without any p-stem protection.

From what I've researched, keeping the p-stem or cutting it back still results in a mat of equivalent health/height.....retained p-stems tend to either die back or wait to spring back so that new pups from the corm can overtake the older growth.

My advice is to retain what you can, mulch heavily and you'll be doing quite well in the spring!

PR-Giants · 07-31-2012, 11:07 PM

Thanks Tony
Everything that I can rrecall reading, refered to the mother as the first gen, the daughters as the second gen, and the granddaughters as the third gen.
What is more important here is what he was refering to, and your def. makes sense.

sunfish · 08-01-2012, 09:23 AM

Pups seem to take the cold better than the large p-stem.I would keep a couple pups attached in case the mother does not make it .whoohoo

RandyGHO · 08-01-2012, 01:12 PM

It is my intent then to try going from TC to fruiting keeping the suckers cut away
.
Tony and all looking ahead in my banana program, I see it going all dwarfs anyway with the exception of the Goldfinger since it fruits smaller than the ice cream or the apple. If my winter program fails then I will replant with the Dwarfs. If the program works then at least right now I will keep the suckers cleared till it fruits. Spring I will plant new dwarf plants in new mats.

Even If I loose my banana plants this winter, our family has really enjoyed the banana "E" ride already. It is fascinating to look out the window each day and see how much they have grown.

Thanks for all the replies.

Checker55 · 08-01-2012, 04:33 PM

If the pseudostem has an undeveloped flower inside and then breaks due to wind . Is that pseudostem never going produce another flower?

Darkman · 08-01-2012, 06:17 PM

Each P-stem has the potential to produce a flower and after producing it it will die.

Olafhenny · 08-01-2012, 07:07 PM

Okay, I cannot help to toss in my three bit's worth (Inflation strikes everywhere, even my
insignificant opinion has gone up in price):

Since fruiting is here in HZ6 out of the question, I raise bananas strictly for their impressive foliage.
Spring 2010 I planted a Basjoo. During summer it had 5 pups. I harvested #3 and raised it over
winter in the house. During summer 2011 the patch grew some more pups and I harvested #5
and planted it in my tropical planter this spring. You could argue with some justification, that
numbers 1 through 5 are second generation and if # 3 or #5 have pups, they might be third
generation (hasn't happened yet).

However, let's go back to the original mat: #1 is now slightly bigger than "mom" because it came
through the winter with less frost damage. Now there are a few new pups. I leave it up to my
betters to figure out if they are daughters of the original therefore sisters of #1 through 5 or
possibly third generation.

Now if one of them had the decency to sprout on the side of one of the "second generation" away
from the mother, you might reason, that it is third generation. I won't worry about that. I am just
assuming, that they are all living from the same corm and root system as part of an immoral
incestuous family, having a great deal of fun and leave it to others to sort out the generation bit.

For those with superior moral fortitude I would like to point out, though, that these bananas will never
fruit and are strictly propagating asexually.

Darkman · 08-01-2012, 09:04 PM

Thinks that make you go Hhmmm!

Yug · 08-02-2012, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR-Giants

It may be common, but I can only confirm seeing it once.
In order to have 3 generations in a mat, you need the mother to have a pup and then that pup to have a pup before the mother plant is havested.
About 9 months ago I had a maricongo with many large pups fall due to high winds. I stood the plant back up and today I harvested fruit from one of the original pups (6 hands, 30 fruit, 18.9 pounds) and the corm of that plant has pups. The mother plant is still alive and has not flowered, so that is 3 generations in one mat.
That was the first time I saw a pup fruit before it's mother set fruit.
If my way of counting generations is wrong, someone please correct me.

Three generations?

Hell, I'll get you a photo tomorrow after I get off work. I have a Saba that is about half grown, the largest pup has a p-stem about 6 ft, and it has started growing its own pup. I know the pup belongs to it because is is exactly opposite where the mother plant is. You will see once I get the picture.

edit - OK, I was wrong; largest pup has about 7 ft of p-stem. Mother plant is about 11 ft, and is far too short to fruit. Largest pup has a new pup of its own on right side away from main plant.

Pup is growing on side farthest away from mother plant

Better view of pup

07-31-2012, 04:18 PM	#1 (permalink)
RandyGHO Find me on the map! Zone: Georgia 8b Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 404 BananaBucks : 132,139 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 3 Times Was Thanked 380 Times in 198 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 51 Times	Pup After Fruiting? After a banana plant fruits and the pseudostem is cut off, will the old mother corm produce a new pup? __________________ Thinking outside the peel always. Last edited by RandyGHO : 07-31-2012 at 05:24 PM.

07-31-2012, 04:26 PM	#2 (permalink)
LilRaverBoi Nanner Time! LilRaverBoi's Photo Gallery Location: Cedar Rapids, IA Find me on the map! Zone: 5 Name: Bryan Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,937 BananaBucks : 114,215 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 534 Times Was Thanked 2,243 Times in 1,245 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 855 Times	Re: Pup After Fruiting? Well, bananas can pup at any stage of growth. Some varieties pup more than others (and Ensete's do not pup at all, unless artificially forced to). But to answer the question, yes, after a plant fruits, that pseudostem will die off and a new pup/plant will form from the corm to take its place. __________________ BANANA RAVE! Feel the beat from start to stop, dancin' and movin' from bottom to top! lilraverboi@genxglow.com RIP Tog Tan. We love you and will always remember you! I'm Bryan with a Y! There is no 'I' in BRYAN!

07-31-2012, 04:26 PM	#3 (permalink)
caliboy1994 <div style="font-style: italic;"><div style="font-style: italic;"></div></div> caliboy1994's Photo Gallery Location: SFV, California Find me on the map! Zone: USDA zone 10a; Sunset zone 18/19 Name: Andreas Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 2,301 BananaBucks : 251,245 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 1,474 Times Was Thanked 2,196 Times in 1,148 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 236 Times	Re: Pup After Fruiting? Yes, unless you have an Ensete. __________________ "The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings." ~ Masanobu Fukuoka Find me on linktree here as Solarpunk Farmer: https://linktr.ee/solarpunkfarmer

07-31-2012, 04:44 PM	#4 (permalink)
sunfish Banned sunfish's Photo Gallery Location: San Diego Find me on the map! Zone: 9-11 Name: Tony Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 18,429 BananaBucks : 948,229 Feedback: 8 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,210 Times Was Thanked 20,591 Times in 7,760 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 2,716 Times	Re: Pup After Fruiting? The p-stem dies not the corm

07-31-2012, 05:37 PM	#5 (permalink)
RandyGHO Find me on the map! Zone: Georgia 8b Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 404 BananaBucks : 132,139 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 3 Times Was Thanked 380 Times in 198 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 51 Times	Re: Pup After Fruiting? Thanks for the replies. That is just what I wanted to know. I am trying to work up my winter protection covers. Having a single pseudostem makes an in-ground, winter protection device simpler to build Also I want every bit of energy to go into the mother plant to gain as much on fruiting height as I can this year. I want to keep the suckers trimmed off at least till the first frost if not till the plant fruits. I know it is common to have three generations in a mat. I wonder though in zones like 8b if concentrating on a single pseudostem might give me just enough edge to fruit in the second year from a TC? __________________ Thinking outside the peel always.

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07-31-2012, 10:41 PM	#7 (permalink)
sunfish Banned sunfish's Photo Gallery Location: San Diego Find me on the map! Zone: 9-11 Name: Tony Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 18,429 BananaBucks : 948,229 Feedback: 8 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,210 Times Was Thanked 20,591 Times in 7,760 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 2,716 Times	Re: Pup After Fruiting? I think it means three plants of different age.Could be mother with two pups

07-31-2012, 11:05 PM	#8 (permalink)
LilRaverBoi Nanner Time! LilRaverBoi's Photo Gallery Location: Cedar Rapids, IA Find me on the map! Zone: 5 Name: Bryan Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,937 BananaBucks : 114,215 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 534 Times Was Thanked 2,243 Times in 1,245 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 855 Times	Re: Pup After Fruiting? Honestly, I don't know that having pups or removing them makes any difference in overwintering. Around here (zone 5-6), even that which is cut off near the base, mulched heavily and overwintered (basjoo) can achieve 8+ feet and blooming without any p-stem protection. From what I've researched, keeping the p-stem or cutting it back still results in a mat of equivalent health/height.....retained p-stems tend to either die back or wait to spring back so that new pups from the corm can overtake the older growth. My advice is to retain what you can, mulch heavily and you'll be doing quite well in the spring! __________________ BANANA RAVE! Feel the beat from start to stop, dancin' and movin' from bottom to top! lilraverboi@genxglow.com RIP Tog Tan. We love you and will always remember you! I'm Bryan with a Y! There is no 'I' in BRYAN!

07-31-2012, 11:07 PM	#9 (permalink)
PR-Giants Commercial Grower Location: Florida & Greater Antilles Find me on the map! Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 4,544 BananaBucks : 3,938 Feedback: 16 / 100% Said "Thanks" 2,900 Times Was Thanked 12,463 Times in 3,620 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 3,204 Times	Re: Pup After Fruiting? Thanks Tony Everything that I can rrecall reading, refered to the mother as the first gen, the daughters as the second gen, and the granddaughters as the third gen. What is more important here is what he was refering to, and your def. makes sense. __________________ PR-Giants Photo Gallery 15,000+ Varieties

08-01-2012, 09:23 AM	#10 (permalink)
sunfish Banned sunfish's Photo Gallery Location: San Diego Find me on the map! Zone: 9-11 Name: Tony Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 18,429 BananaBucks : 948,229 Feedback: 8 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,210 Times Was Thanked 20,591 Times in 7,760 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 2,716 Times	Re: Pup After Fruiting? Pups seem to take the cold better than the large p-stem.I would keep a couple pups attached in case the mother does not make it .whoohoo

08-01-2012, 01:12 PM	#11 (permalink)
RandyGHO Find me on the map! Zone: Georgia 8b Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 404 BananaBucks : 132,139 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 3 Times Was Thanked 380 Times in 198 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 51 Times	Re: Pup After Fruiting? It is my intent then to try going from TC to fruiting keeping the suckers cut away . Tony and all looking ahead in my banana program, I see it going all dwarfs anyway with the exception of the Goldfinger since it fruits smaller than the ice cream or the apple. If my winter program fails then I will replant with the Dwarfs. If the program works then at least right now I will keep the suckers cleared till it fruits. Spring I will plant new dwarf plants in new mats. Even If I loose my banana plants this winter, our family has really enjoyed the banana "E" ride already. It is fascinating to look out the window each day and see how much they have grown. Thanks for all the replies. __________________ Thinking outside the peel always.

08-01-2012, 04:33 PM	#12 (permalink)
Checker55 Location: North Hollywood CA. U S A Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 68 BananaBucks : 6,571 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 176 Times Was Thanked 70 Times in 40 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 160 Times	Re: Pup After Fruiting? If the pseudostem has an undeveloped flower inside and then breaks due to wind . Is that pseudostem never going produce another flower?

08-01-2012, 06:17 PM	#13 (permalink)
Darkman Dirt Master Darkman's Photo Gallery Location: Pensacola, FL South of I-10 Find me on the map! Zone: 8b/9a Name: Darkman Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,249 BananaBucks : 204,669 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 9,263 Times Was Thanked 1,582 Times in 702 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 243 Times	Re: Pup After Fruiting? Each P-stem has the potential to produce a flower and after producing it it will die. __________________ Darkman in Pensacola AS ALWAYS IMHO AND YOUR MILEAGE MAY DIFFER!!!!!!!! Life - Some assembly required, As is no warranty, Batteries not included, Instructions shipped separately and are frequently wrong! Kentucky Bourbon - It may not solve the problem but it helps to make it tolerable! Statistics - Data that analyst twist to support the insane opinions of those that pay them.

08-01-2012, 07:07 PM	#14 (permalink)
Olafhenny Olafhenny's Photo Gallery Location: Penticton, BC, Okanagan Valley, Canada Find me on the map! Zone: Hardiness Zone 6 Name: Olaf Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,705 BananaBucks : 246,213 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 2,050 Times Was Thanked 2,012 Times in 876 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 77 Times	Re: Pup After Fruiting? Okay, I cannot help to toss in my three bit's worth (Inflation strikes everywhere, even my insignificant opinion has gone up in price): Since fruiting is here in HZ6 out of the question, I raise bananas strictly for their impressive foliage. Spring 2010 I planted a Basjoo. During summer it had 5 pups. I harvested #3 and raised it over winter in the house. During summer 2011 the patch grew some more pups and I harvested #5 and planted it in my tropical planter this spring. You could argue with some justification, that numbers 1 through 5 are second generation and if # 3 or #5 have pups, they might be third generation (hasn't happened yet). However, let's go back to the original mat: #1 is now slightly bigger than "mom" because it came through the winter with less frost damage. Now there are a few new pups. I leave it up to my betters to figure out if they are daughters of the original therefore sisters of #1 through 5 or possibly third generation. Now if one of them had the decency to sprout on the side of one of the "second generation" away from the mother, you might reason, that it is third generation. I won't worry about that. I am just assuming, that they are all living from the same corm and root system as part of an immoral incestuous family, having a great deal of fun and leave it to others to sort out the generation bit. For those with superior moral fortitude I would like to point out, though, that these bananas will never fruit and are strictly propagating asexually. __________________ The reason I joined this forum was to share experiences, my own and those of others and to learn from them. Last edited by Olafhenny : 08-01-2012 at 07:10 PM.

08-01-2012, 09:04 PM	#15 (permalink)
Darkman Dirt Master Darkman's Photo Gallery Location: Pensacola, FL South of I-10 Find me on the map! Zone: 8b/9a Name: Darkman Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,249 BananaBucks : 204,669 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 9,263 Times Was Thanked 1,582 Times in 702 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 243 Times	Re: Pup After Fruiting? Thinks that make you go Hhmmm! __________________ Darkman in Pensacola AS ALWAYS IMHO AND YOUR MILEAGE MAY DIFFER!!!!!!!! Life - Some assembly required, As is no warranty, Batteries not included, Instructions shipped separately and are frequently wrong! Kentucky Bourbon - It may not solve the problem but it helps to make it tolerable! Statistics - Data that analyst twist to support the insane opinions of those that pay them.

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