Is it possible for a dwarf cavendish to survive 9a zone? - Page 2

beam2050 · 03-28-2018, 09:22 AM

d Cavendish are way to slow growing. namwa will grow 10 times faster.

AngelCalifornia · 03-28-2018, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sputinc7

Maybe so, but a general idea is all we really need... Where do we even find those 890 values for our mathematical adventure, anyway? I don't have time for all that, and I have more time than most people, other than retired folks, I guess.
Where I live is 9b but my house is in a spot where the overnight lows are routinely 5-7 degrees cooler than other nearby areas, and I quickly figured that out and keep it in mind. So, when they say the low will be 43, I know 36 or so is much more accurate and act accordingly. There won't be frost at 43, but there will be at 36.(Assuming the dewpoint is at or above that and winds are calm)

Can i protect the pstem with row covers?

Jose263 · 03-28-2018, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sputinc7

Maybe so, but a general idea is all we really need... Where do we even find those 890 values for our mathematical adventure, anyway? I don't have time for all that, and I have more time than most people, other than retired folks, I guess.
Where I live is 9b but my house is in a spot where the overnight lows are routinely 5-7 degrees cooler than other nearby areas, and I quickly figured that out and keep it in mind. So, when they say the low will be 43, I know 36 or so is much more accurate and act accordingly. There won't be frost at 43, but there will be at 36.(Assuming the dewpoint is at or above that and winds are calm)

Thanks - I'm no math wiz - just use the website Get Chill
I think you made my point that each person's back yard is different so, advice about winter survival from a distance isn't really that helpful

sputinc7 · 03-28-2018, 05:08 PM

I tried that website. It only does the current winter's data apparently and I also find those wunderground data sites very unreliable. For example, one nearest me showed 204 hours below 45 and the one just 8 blocks away showed 98. No way.
Also, if I understand their info correctly, when I do the math on how many were between 45 and 32, what is left was below 32, correct? We showed 31 hours below 32 at the one closest my house ( KFLPALMB147 ) and the next closest showed none. ( KFLPALMB152 ) I saw 26 on my home thermometer as well as on the one closest to my home. No way just 8 blocks away it never dropped below 32.
I don't know what but something is off...

AngelCalifornia · 03-28-2018, 05:23 PM

what do you think is the most reliable Forecast Site?

Jose263 · 03-28-2018, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sputinc7

I tried that website. It only does the current winter's data apparently and I also find those wunderground data sites very unreliable. For example, one nearest me showed 204 hours below 45 and the one just 8 blocks away showed 98. No way.
Also, if I understand their info correctly, when I do the math on how many were between 45 and 32, what is left was below 32, correct? We showed 31 hours below 32 at the one closest my house ( KFLPALMB147 ) and the next closest showed none. ( KFLPALMB152 ) I saw 26 on my home thermometer as well as on the one closest to my home. No way just 8 blocks away it never dropped below 32.
I don't know what but something is off...

Here is a second site that I bounce against the get chill site
https://webapps.msucares.com/chill_hours/
your PalmB stations 147 and 152 aren't on their list. I can't explain the discrepancy -the location of the weather station and adjacent buildings, pavement, bodies of water influence temps. I'm satisfied that the stations close to my home are reporting accurately. I also monitor freezes with a thermometer and local weather station forecasts. Even then low temps at my house are typically 2-3 degrees F lower than the local forecast and plants on south side of house stay warmer than others.
The chill hour thing is more about growing fruit other than bananas and citrus-that like heat and fry in freezes,
Most other fruit trees like freezes and actually require a period of cold in order to set fruit. The period between 32-45 are called Chill hours and low chill fruit trees are rated as to how many chill hours are needed to set fruit. You are correct that subtracting chill hrs from total under 45 should yield hours below 32.

Sorry if I explained stuff you already knew- but perhaps the info is useful to someone.

sputinc7 · 03-28-2018, 08:03 PM

Forecasting? That is a different animal altogether... None are very accurate. I pick a site and learn how they run for my area.
For instance, I usually go to intellicast (Because it has a lot of things and I like the format.), but I also know if they say the low will be 42, it will actually be closer to 32-34 and I will prepare accordingly...At least they don't simply parrot the national weather service, I guess.
I also recommend Mike's weather page ( Mike's Weather Page... powered by Sparks Energy! ) which is mainly for hurricanes but he predicted the nor'easters days before the weather service did, accurately I might add. I like to look at the many pages of info and see some things for myself.

sputinc7 · 03-28-2018, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jose263

Here is a second site that I bounce against the get chill site
https://webapps.msucares.com/chill_hours/
your PalmB stations 147 and 152 aren't on their list. I can't explain the discrepancy -the location of the weather station and adjacent buildings, pavement, bodies of water influence temps. I'm satisfied that the stations close to my home are reporting accurately. I also monitor freezes with a thermometer and local weather station forecasts. Even then low temps at my house are typically 2-3 degrees F lower than the local forecast and plants on south side of house stay warmer than others.
The chill hour thing is more about growing fruit other than bananas and citrus-that like heat and fry in freezes,
Most other fruit trees like freezes and actually require a period of cold in order to set fruit. The period between 32-45 are called Chill hours and low chill fruit trees are rated as to how many chill hours are needed to set fruit. You are correct that subtracting chill hrs from total under 45 should yield hours below 32.

Sorry if I explained stuff you already knew- but perhaps the info is useful to someone.

Yes, like black raspberries... They need a minimum of 400 chill hours, which means I can't have them here in Palm Bay... They are the one fruit I like better than bananas... Best cobblers and jelly ever.

WonderKeeper · 03-29-2018, 04:04 AM

The weather is changing all the time." the most reliable Forecast Site " is yourself. Learn to know your plant growing limit and yes you can push that limit by under stand well your growing area climate . Are there any large trees , tall house,buildings , structures..etc around to block the cold wind and frost . If you understand it well ,then it would save you lot of time and $$ from not killing the plant you love to grow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelCalifornia

what do you think is the most reliable Forecast Site?

Starstryke · 03-29-2018, 08:59 AM

The better question is why are you fixated on cavendish ? That is the the banana you find cheap in grocery stores.

AngelCalifornia · 03-29-2018, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starstryke

The better question is why are you fixated on cavendish ? That is the the banana you find cheap in grocery stores.

I got Blue java and musa x paradisiaca (plantains) too

Starstryke · 03-29-2018, 11:29 AM

Then grow gros michel or one of the fast fruiting cultivars that I am blanking on the names of. Or if you are stuck on cavendish at least something interesting like mahoi.

sputinc7 · 03-29-2018, 04:45 PM

Come on guys... Let him grow what he wants... We all likely have D Cav in our gardens, I do.

AngelCalifornia · 03-29-2018, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sputinc7

Come on guys... Let him grow what he wants... We all likely have D Cav in our gardens, I do.

is musa goldfinger kinda cold hardy?

Starstryke · 03-29-2018, 08:15 PM

It came back from the corm after the 3 to 4 day freeze we had this year. You cannot bet on an edible banana without some cold protection.

obdiah · 03-30-2018, 11:18 AM

there much better choices for marginal temp,s dc is very cool intolerant they even do poorly in my green house that never drops below 45 f ice cream blue java or rajah puri are much more forgiving

sputinc7 · 03-31-2018, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by obdiah

there much better choices for marginal temp,s dc is very cool intolerant they even do poorly in my green house that never drops below 45 f ice cream blue java or rajah puri are much more forgiving

The best overall banana in regards to toughness in the face of cold, disease and insects (And it tastes pretty good, too.) is Dwarf Brazilian. At least of the 12 varieties I have.

hydroid · 03-31-2018, 05:32 PM

My favorite Dwarf for overall satisfaction has been Dwarf Namwah, makes you look like a pro, ha ha.

Richard · 03-31-2018, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelCalifornia

QUESTION IT NEEDS TO BE Fahrenheit right?

The USDA cold hardiness chart is available in both Fahrenheit and Celsius.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vette-kid

I don't believe we were that low that much. I think only 4 or 5 nights around the 20 mark. One day it was below freezing for 6 it 7 hours, that's rare that it lasts that long here.

If you hit the 20-25F mark 4 or 5 nights in Florida, then each of those nights you were below freezing for at least 6 hours. Consult historical records of a nearby weather station for details.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jose263

Interesting: I'm in 9a and it dropped to 19 F and 17 F last winter - lost all my pstems. Ty is zone 8b supposed to be colder - but he lives on a large lake. I recently compared our chill hours. In 9a I had fewer chill hours 32-45 than him however; I had 75 more hours below freezing. Lesson - Micro climates DO matter... Plant and see

First of all, USDA zones are 10 year averages of extreme lows. There are two methods to calculate it -- I've given the more conservative approach.

Second -- due to the definition, a one-year anomaly does not establish your zone.

Third -- (thank you Jose263), don't rely on a map. Obtain accurate local temperatures over at least a 10 year period.

03-28-2018, 09:22 AM	#21 (permalink)
beam2050 banana cereal killer Location: middleburg fl. Find me on the map! Zone: 9b-8a Name: walkinbeam Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 2,423 BananaBucks : 684 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 10,695 Times Was Thanked 3,349 Times in 1,543 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 816 Times	Re: Is it possible for a dwarf cavendish to survive 9a zone? d Cavendish are way to slow growing. namwa will grow 10 times faster. __________________ ................................................... npk of wood ash 0/1/3 to 0/3/7 npk of banana leaf ash 1.75/0.75/0.5

03-28-2018, 05:08 PM	#24 (permalink)
sputinc7 Location: Palm Bay, Florida Find me on the map! Zone: 9b Name: Steve Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 1,394 BananaBucks : 101,749 Feedback: 3 / 100% Said "Thanks" 352 Times Was Thanked 2,430 Times in 971 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 295 Times	Re: Is it possible for a dwarf cavendish to survive 9a zone? I tried that website. It only does the current winter's data apparently and I also find those wunderground data sites very unreliable. For example, one nearest me showed 204 hours below 45 and the one just 8 blocks away showed 98. No way. Also, if I understand their info correctly, when I do the math on how many were between 45 and 32, what is left was below 32, correct? We showed 31 hours below 32 at the one closest my house ( KFLPALMB147 ) and the next closest showed none. ( KFLPALMB152 ) I saw 26 on my home thermometer as well as on the one closest to my home. No way just 8 blocks away it never dropped below 32. I don't know what but something is off... __________________ If you lose your head and give up, you neither live nor win. https://sputinc7.wixsite.com/covwc Varieties I supposedly bought: Manzano, Cavendish, Blue Java, Sweetheart, and Gros Michel. What it seems I actually have: Brazilian, Cavendish, Namwah, Dwarf Red, Gros Michel, Pisang Ceylon, Veinte Cohol and SH 3640, and American Goldfinger. FHIA 1, Paggi and FHIA 17... Always room for one more.

03-28-2018, 05:23 PM	#25 (permalink)
AngelCalifornia Zone: 9a Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 17 BananaBucks : 19,121 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 15 Times Was Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Is it possible for a dwarf cavendish to survive 9a zone? what do you think is the most reliable Forecast Site?

03-28-2018, 08:03 PM	#27 (permalink)
sputinc7 Location: Palm Bay, Florida Find me on the map! Zone: 9b Name: Steve Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 1,394 BananaBucks : 101,749 Feedback: 3 / 100% Said "Thanks" 352 Times Was Thanked 2,430 Times in 971 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 295 Times	Re: Is it possible for a dwarf cavendish to survive 9a zone? Forecasting? That is a different animal altogether... None are very accurate. I pick a site and learn how they run for my area. For instance, I usually go to intellicast (Because it has a lot of things and I like the format.), but I also know if they say the low will be 42, it will actually be closer to 32-34 and I will prepare accordingly...At least they don't simply parrot the national weather service, I guess. I also recommend Mike's weather page ( Mike's Weather Page... powered by Sparks Energy! ) which is mainly for hurricanes but he predicted the nor'easters days before the weather service did, accurately I might add. I like to look at the many pages of info and see some things for myself. __________________ If you lose your head and give up, you neither live nor win. https://sputinc7.wixsite.com/covwc Varieties I supposedly bought: Manzano, Cavendish, Blue Java, Sweetheart, and Gros Michel. What it seems I actually have: Brazilian, Cavendish, Namwah, Dwarf Red, Gros Michel, Pisang Ceylon, Veinte Cohol and SH 3640, and American Goldfinger. FHIA 1, Paggi and FHIA 17... Always room for one more.

03-29-2018, 08:59 AM	#30 (permalink)
Starstryke Location: Texas Find me on the map! Zone: 9a Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 137 BananaBucks : 29,736 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 47 Times Was Thanked 141 Times in 80 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 2 Times	Re: Is it possible for a dwarf cavendish to survive 9a zone? The better question is why are you fixated on cavendish ? That is the the banana you find cheap in grocery stores.

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03-29-2018, 11:29 AM	#32 (permalink)
Starstryke Location: Texas Find me on the map! Zone: 9a Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 137 BananaBucks : 29,736 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 47 Times Was Thanked 141 Times in 80 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 2 Times	Re: Is it possible for a dwarf cavendish to survive 9a zone? Then grow gros michel or one of the fast fruiting cultivars that I am blanking on the names of. Or if you are stuck on cavendish at least something interesting like mahoi.

03-29-2018, 04:45 PM	#33 (permalink)
sputinc7 Location: Palm Bay, Florida Find me on the map! Zone: 9b Name: Steve Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 1,394 BananaBucks : 101,749 Feedback: 3 / 100% Said "Thanks" 352 Times Was Thanked 2,430 Times in 971 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 295 Times	Re: Is it possible for a dwarf cavendish to survive 9a zone? Come on guys... Let him grow what he wants... We all likely have D Cav in our gardens, I do. __________________ If you lose your head and give up, you neither live nor win. https://sputinc7.wixsite.com/covwc Varieties I supposedly bought: Manzano, Cavendish, Blue Java, Sweetheart, and Gros Michel. What it seems I actually have: Brazilian, Cavendish, Namwah, Dwarf Red, Gros Michel, Pisang Ceylon, Veinte Cohol and SH 3640, and American Goldfinger. FHIA 1, Paggi and FHIA 17... Always room for one more.

03-29-2018, 08:15 PM	#35 (permalink)
Starstryke Location: Texas Find me on the map! Zone: 9a Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 137 BananaBucks : 29,736 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 47 Times Was Thanked 141 Times in 80 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 2 Times	Re: Is it possible for a dwarf cavendish to survive 9a zone? It came back from the corm after the 3 to 4 day freeze we had this year. You cannot bet on an edible banana without some cold protection.

03-30-2018, 11:18 AM	#36 (permalink)
obdiah Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 307 BananaBucks : 88,283 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 164 Times Was Thanked 576 Times in 186 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 22 Times	Re: Is it possible for a dwarf cavendish to survive 9a zone? there much better choices for marginal temp,s dc is very cool intolerant they even do poorly in my green house that never drops below 45 f ice cream blue java or rajah puri are much more forgiving

03-31-2018, 05:32 PM	#38 (permalink)
hydroid Minister of Propaganda hydroid's Photo Gallery Location: Gulf Shores, Alabama Find me on the map! Zone: Zone -8b-9a Name: Bo Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 687 BananaBucks : 106,504 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 775 Times Was Thanked 729 Times in 329 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 45 Times	Re: Is it possible for a dwarf cavendish to survive 9a zone? My favorite Dwarf for overall satisfaction has been Dwarf Namwah, makes you look like a pro, ha ha.

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