kenboy

I am somewhat new to growing bananas but not new to gardening. I was given a plant in March that had been frozen back and cut off at about two feet tall. I planted it where it would get lots of sun and try to keep it watered. I fed it once in May and that is it. Now the mother plant is blooming and the pup is already larger in diameter than she is. I'm thinking this is not the norm?

Big Mama


Pup Size - Pup on left

Gabe15

This is normal, the first generation plant and bunch is usually smaller than the second generation, as the plant ages it gains more vigor if well kept.

__________________
Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties.

MediaHound

Yes, what Gabe said

Congrats on your bloom!

__________________
Apologies in advance if I am slow to reply to your PM. I suggest posting in the forums for support if you need something urgent.

bananimal

You must be doing the right thing. My dwf orinoco that was potted for 2 years produced a pup that has twice the caliper at it's base than the parent -- 10 inches. It still has not flown the flag yet! Can't wait till this megapup throws its fruit. Betting three times the bananas.

The parent has only 50 plumping out as of now. If you have good soil and a good cultivation regimen -- fert, water, compost boost, and especially removing all secondary pups as the appear -- you will be just as amazed as I am. I keep one primary pup for the next generation.

I pull 'em at 12 to 18 inches and pot them for other folks that want them. Interested? Also have pups of dwf brazilian, red iholene, saba, pitogo, red kru, hua moa, goldfinger, super dwf cavendish and gran nain x sumatrana. Pups of Ae Ae and Siam ruby to come later as they are recuperating from too much rain when too young. Trying to appease wife, eh, as the pool area has started to look like pup city!!!

Dan

Bamboo Conne'iseur

Are you saying that the second generation is bigger if LEFT with the mat, or will that apply as well if you dig out the pup and plant it elsewhere?

MediaHound

If left with it.
Second if removed will still probably be bigger than the first if the first was a tissue culture, though.

__________________
Apologies in advance if I am slow to reply to your PM. I suggest posting in the forums for support if you need something urgent.

Bamboo Conne'iseur

I see then that bananas and bamboo have a few things in common. That being that both will get larger, until it reaches its max. size once the clump, or in this case the mat is large enough to support the plants. With bamboo, when you have a enough culms going, if you clean out the smaller older ones, it allows the clump to push bigger culms out faster, because the water needs per root material has shifted in favor. It will have more root mass than leafy material, and instead of the clump spreading out its water needs over many small ones, it can then focus on larger culms instead. Of course every bamboo is limited by its own genetics, but proper trimming can allow it to get to its maximum size faster, than simply doing nothing. I wonder if this is why I have seen in other another thread here someone mentioning that their Musa xishuangbannaensis was not as large as they had expected or something like that. Maybe the reason its not that large, is because the root mass has not gotten to the size needed to produce those thirty feet tall naners. Which leads me to wonder if the same method of getting them to larger size would work with bananas, as it does with bamboo...

bananimal

Roots are not the issue. The corm of the mama naner is. Think of the corm, or bulb, as the mother ship and the pups as the much smaller space ships like in the movie Fourth of July. They were nested, embedded, around the mother ship surface. That's as far as that analogy goes and we can take our starfleet academy hats off now.

This my experience. First planting of a baseball sized corm will send up the parent. Pups will devlop around the sides of the mama corm. As more and more leaves emerge the corm will grow in size and the pups will get bigger as well. Good mat management dictates that only 2 pups be allowed to stay with mama. All others should be cut out. I wait till pups are 12 to 18 inches tall so they will pot up well with enough vigor to overcome xplant shock.

A banana corm in the ground for a year will be large with much stored energy. As an experiment, someday when you have too many naners, or at somebody else's house, commit mamacide by machete one foot above ground level. The two pups will take off quickly and a whole ring of new pups will appear around the mama corm in less than a month. Could be 6 to 8 or more new pups depending on how big, how much stored energy, the mama corm developed. I'm pretty sure this a practice used in a start up operation or mat relocation by nurseries.

Dan

Maggidew

OK, I will answer for kenboy (DH) and say 'Yes!' kenboy is interested in the pups.

I am curious about the terms secondary pup and primary pup? Whazzat? I am a real banana dummy right now, hoping to get to be banana smart, tho.

__________________
DH Has Gone Bananas !

MediaHound

One thats allowed to remain and get tall for a late season or next year's harvest. Basically, the pups are removed so that there are alternating heights of pseudostems on the mat.

__________________
Apologies in advance if I am slow to reply to your PM. I suggest posting in the forums for support if you need something urgent.

Bamboo Conne'iseur

Thanks for clearing that up, although I would think that the corm IS part of the root system, just like the rhizome of a bamboo is. Bamboo is similar in being that its rhizome too needs to be enlarged to the point of being able to put up larger size culms. Thanks for the info, and for clearing that up.
As far as good mat management, why should only two pups be allowed to grow? Does it have anything to do with it fruiting?

MediaHound

Oftentimes you will see commercial growers leaving 4 or 6, or more..

__________________
Apologies in advance if I am slow to reply to your PM. I suggest posting in the forums for support if you need something urgent.

Bamboo Conne'iseur

Well, I am a bit confused. What would be the benefits to keeping only one or two pups going in a mat, verses the commercial way of more than four or six?

kenboy

Hello again. In the last few days I have noticed that the new fingers are all falling off. We are about six weeks away from our first frost, so would I be better off to cut the rest of the blooms off? That way the plant could put all of it's energy into the fingers it has left. It would be so cool to be able to have bananas from my own plant. If frost comes early, can I cut the bunch off and they still ripen if hung upside down, like I have seen in MediaHound's post on another thread. How long must they stay on the mother plant so they will be far enough along to ripen?

microfarmer

What is...

Full size and plump?

__________________
My new hero...

Maggidew

OK, we'll leave them as long as possible. Should we take off the new hands as they emerge to give the larger ones more good stuff to grow bigger? Intuitively, that's what I would do, but it is kenboy's banana plant after all and I am NOT touching it!

Our average first frost date is Nov 15, BTW. Is there a nighttime low temp we should watch out for? Like, if it gets below 50s at night will that set them back or stop them maturing?

__________________
DH Has Gone Bananas !

bananimal

Bamb Conn
The 2 pup method keeps vigor in the mama banana. Comml growers have lots of nutrients to dump on the mats. Since they are concerned only with production - - as many pounds of product per acre as possible - they will leave as many pups as practical.

By doing the 2 pup max thing the backyard grower will insure the max yield per main pseudostem. Comml guys don't care if the production mats will deplete the soil as they have already started new plantings in fresh soil to take over -no interruption in production.

Kenboy/Maggidew

New fingers/flowers falling off is likely male flowers croaking - they don't make fruit. (Insert punchline here). Female flowers emerge first on the raceme followed by male. Good mat management says cut the stalk after the last fruit hand has set. Those male fllowers, especilally here in Fla, attract way too many bugs and critters by their sweet smell. I mean -- ants of all kinds, bees and wasps, roaches the size of toy poodles, racoons, squirrels, bobcats (I got 'em) and gila monsters (just kidding). Bottom line, wait until 1 foot or so of stalk after last good hand of fruit before cutting off.

As for first frost - cut off the stalk with what ever fruit you have and hang in in the laundry room, a warm place. They will ripen and you will get what you get!

Microfarmer, a.k.a. Senor Excessivo

Plumping is the filling out of newly formed fruit - till it stops getting fatter and longer. Now it is full sized. This varies widely with different banana types. Next comes ripening. Next comes the squirrels unless you get there first!!!

I need a beer now!

Dan

kenboy

OK now I would like to ID this one. I have picked up a few new ones and have trades for others but this guy is a monster. It just loves our red clay as do most bananas. If I do any trading most people want to know the name as do I. Thanks.

kenboy
www.vonrussellfarm.com

Gabe15

Looks like standard 'Orinoco' to me.

__________________
Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties.

AnnaJW

Hey, Dan -
Do you still have any pups available???
PM me if you do please!

__________________
-Anna Banana -

Living my life in MMORPG's