Bananas.org

Welcome to the Bananas.org forums.

You're currently viewing our message boards as a guest which gives you limited access to participate in discussions and access our other features such as our wiki and photo gallery. By joining our community, you'll have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload photos, and access many other special features. Registration is fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Go Back   Bananas.org > Banana Forum > Main Banana Discussion
Register Photo Gallery Classifieds Wiki Chat Map Today's Posts

Main Banana Discussion This is where we discuss our banana collections; tips on growing bananas, tips on harvesting bananas, sharing our banana photos and stories.


Members currently in the chatroom: 0
The most chatters online in one day was 17, 09-06-2009.
No one is currently using the chat.

Reply   Email this Page Email this Page
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 09-21-2015, 07:26 AM   #1 (permalink)
Commercial Grower
 
PR-Giants's Avatar
 
Location: Florida & Greater Antilles
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,544
BananaBucks : 2,891
Feedback: 16 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 2,900 Times
Was Thanked 12,463 Times in 3,620 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 3,204 Times
Default off-types

The use of shoot-tip culture for banana micropropagation, conservation and exchange of germplasm may be reduced by the occurrence of undesired somaclonal variants at high percentages. Dwarf variants which account for approximately 80% of the off-types among ‘Cavendish’ bananas are difficult to detect at the in vitro and nursery stages. A significant economic loss is caused when they are detected only at the production stage in the field.

In the present study the hypothesis that the rate of occurrence of dwarf variants among ‘Cavendish’ vitroplants is governed by clonal-inherent genetic factors was studied. For this purpose, a selection in favour of highly stable clone(s) was performed. Based on results obtained in an earlier study, 11 families of cv. ‘Williams’ were selected for further large-scale multiplication and evaluation. Six of the families that did not produce dwarf variants in the initial study are referred to as ‘stable’ families. Five of the families which did produce dwarf variants are referred to as ‘non-stable’ families.

At the first stage, a few hundred plants of each of the families were evaluated. All of the ‘non-stable’ families and four of the six ‘stable’ families produced dwarf variants. One of the ‘stable’ families produced a very low rate of dwarfs and one did not produce any dwarfs.

The two stable families were tested further, especially the one which exhibited the greatest stability. In that clone only five dwarf variants were recorded among more than 21 000 vitroplants over a span of 8 years. During that period plants for evaluation were regenerated from newly initiated cultures with primary explants of the clone. Some of the cultures were kept before evaluation for many cycles and for a longer period in vitro than the regular ones. The fact that plants of the clone remained stable with regard to restoring a negligible rate of dwarf variants with time, both in situ and in vitro, is attributed to a genetic trait that was revealed by the selection procedure employed.

The origin and causes of dwarf somaclonal variation in bananas is discussed. It is suggested that Cavendish banana shoot tips are of chimeric constitution. The dissociation of these chimeras may result in dwarf somaclonal variants.
__________________



PR-Giants Photo Gallery



15,000+ Varieties

PR-Giants is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To PR-Giants

Join Bananas.org Today!

Are you a banana plant enthusiast? Then we hope you will join the community. You will gain access to post, create threads, private message, upload images, join groups and more.

Bananas.org is owned and operated by fellow banana plant enthusiasts. We strive to offer a non-commercial community to learn and share information. Receive all three issues from Volume 1 of Bananas Magazine with your membership:
   

Join Bananas.org Today! - Click Here


Sponsors

Old 09-21-2015, 09:07 AM   #2 (permalink)
Muck bananas
 
Nicolas Naranja's Avatar
 
Location: Pahokee, FL
Zone: 10
Name: Nick
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,217
BananaBucks : 460,521
Feedback: 7 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 66 Times
Was Thanked 5,663 Times in 1,562 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 7 Times
Send a message via AIM to Nicolas Naranja
Default Re: off-types

Do you have a link or citation so I can see the entire article?


As a side note, the most unstable variety I have come across has been Hua Moa.
__________________
Some people go bananas, I went plantains.
Weather Underground PWS KFLCANAL7
Nicolas Naranja is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To Nicolas Naranja
Said thanks:
Old 09-22-2015, 06:49 AM   #3 (permalink)
Commercial Grower
 
PR-Giants's Avatar
 
Location: Florida & Greater Antilles
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,544
BananaBucks : 2,891
Feedback: 16 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 2,900 Times
Was Thanked 12,463 Times in 3,620 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 3,204 Times
Default Re: off-types

That was an old paper but if you're interested in it, contact one of the authors and they'll send it to you. Plus they'll usually discuss things that never made it into the paper, giving you a better insight of what they were dealing with at the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolas Naranja View Post
Do you have a link or citation so I can see the entire article?


Bananas and plantains (Musa spp.) may flower at any time of the year but they show seasonal variation in flowering. To determine whether photoperiod contributed to this seasonal variation, we calculated the thermal development units (DT) from planting to bunch appearance (flowering) using data from published planting date experiments in the tropics and subtropics. Minimising the coefficient of variation in DT across planting dates was used to evaluate the contribution of photoperiod and soil water balance to time of flowering. Coefficients evaluating sensitivity to photoperiod were estimated in some datasets and validated on independent datasets. Data on the rate of bunch appearance from four locations over several years were analysed to establish correlations between this, photoperiod and temperature. The time of bunch initiation was matched against photoperiod to determine whether short photoperiods delayed bunch initiation. Long photoperiods in the mid-vegetative phase hastened flowering while soil water deficits delayed it. Cultivars of the Cavendish subgroup (AAA) were more sensitive to photoperiod than the Maricongo cultivar (False Horn-type plantain, AAB). Long photoperiods during the reproductive phase were correlated with an increased rate of bunch appearance some 8 to 11 weeks later. Musa spp. show a facultative long-day response to photoperiod.
__________________



PR-Giants Photo Gallery



15,000+ Varieties

PR-Giants is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To PR-Giants
Said thanks:
Old 09-22-2015, 06:59 AM   #4 (permalink)
Commercial Grower
 
PR-Giants's Avatar
 
Location: Florida & Greater Antilles
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,544
BananaBucks : 2,891
Feedback: 16 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 2,900 Times
Was Thanked 12,463 Times in 3,620 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 3,204 Times
Default Re: off-types

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolas Naranja View Post
I wonder how cold tolerant it is? I have found that French plantains reward you if you manage the bunch, but are not marketable if you don't.
Which French-type or types have you tried to grow?
__________________



PR-Giants Photo Gallery



15,000+ Varieties

PR-Giants is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To PR-Giants
Old 09-22-2015, 07:57 AM   #5 (permalink)
Muck bananas
 
Nicolas Naranja's Avatar
 
Location: Pahokee, FL
Zone: 10
Name: Nick
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,217
BananaBucks : 460,521
Feedback: 7 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 66 Times
Was Thanked 5,663 Times in 1,562 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 7 Times
Send a message via AIM to Nicolas Naranja
Default Re: off-types

Quote:
Originally Posted by PR-Giants View Post
Which French-type or types have you tried to grow?
Dwarf super plantain and I have a tall one that was a reversion of a false horn Giant Plantain. Also FHIA-21.

If you could put the author names down, that would be helpful in finding the articles. I have a file on banana somaclonal variation.
__________________
Some people go bananas, I went plantains.
Weather Underground PWS KFLCANAL7
Nicolas Naranja is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To Nicolas Naranja
Sponsors

Old 09-22-2015, 09:22 AM   #6 (permalink)
Commercial Grower
 
PR-Giants's Avatar
 
Location: Florida & Greater Antilles
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,544
BananaBucks : 2,891
Feedback: 16 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 2,900 Times
Was Thanked 12,463 Times in 3,620 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 3,204 Times
Default Re: off-types

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolas Naranja View Post
If you could put the author names down, that would be helpful in finding the articles. I have a file on banana somaclonal variation.
Try to google

Six of the families that did not produce dwarf variants


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolas Naranja View Post
Dwarf super plantain and I have a tall one that was a reversion of a false horn Giant Plantain. Also FHIA-21.
The FHIA-21 was a waste of time.

What makes the Dwarf super plantain and the Tall super plantain super is that they have super in their names but without that they're not that super. If you want to grow a super French-type plantain then go with the Maiden or Red, large bunches with large fingers.
__________________



PR-Giants Photo Gallery



15,000+ Varieties


Last edited by PR-Giants : 09-22-2015 at 10:15 AM.
PR-Giants is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To PR-Giants
Said thanks:
Old 09-22-2015, 10:35 AM   #7 (permalink)
Muck bananas
 
Nicolas Naranja's Avatar
 
Location: Pahokee, FL
Zone: 10
Name: Nick
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,217
BananaBucks : 460,521
Feedback: 7 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 66 Times
Was Thanked 5,663 Times in 1,562 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 7 Times
Send a message via AIM to Nicolas Naranja
Default Re: off-types

Quote:
Originally Posted by PR-Giants View Post
Try to google

What makes the Dwarf super plantain and the Tall super plantain super is that they have super in their names but without that they're not that super. If you want to grow a super French-type plantain then go with the Maiden or Red, large bunches with large fingers.
I don't know what the tall one is that I have. There were 3 of them in a block of Giant Plantains. From the literature I know that false horns can revert back to French types. They made nice bunches. For my purposes though, I need dwarf plants. The wind takes down the tall ones. The tall ones make nice bunches but if it is laying on the ground it is pretty useless.
__________________
Some people go bananas, I went plantains.
Weather Underground PWS KFLCANAL7
Nicolas Naranja is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To Nicolas Naranja
Old 09-22-2015, 07:48 PM   #8 (permalink)
Commercial Grower
 
PR-Giants's Avatar
 
Location: Florida & Greater Antilles
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,544
BananaBucks : 2,891
Feedback: 16 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 2,900 Times
Was Thanked 12,463 Times in 3,620 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 3,204 Times
Default Re: off-types

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolas Naranja View Post
There were 3 of them in a block of Giant Plantains.

What's a block of Giant Plantains?




Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolas Naranja View Post
For my purposes though, I need dwarf plants. The wind takes down the tall ones. The tall ones make nice bunches but if it is laying on the ground it is pretty useless.
What's your height difference between dwarf and normal?

The difference for the cultivars I grow is about 12 inches.
__________________



PR-Giants Photo Gallery



15,000+ Varieties

PR-Giants is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To PR-Giants
Old 09-22-2015, 09:03 PM   #9 (permalink)
Muck bananas
 
Nicolas Naranja's Avatar
 
Location: Pahokee, FL
Zone: 10
Name: Nick
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,217
BananaBucks : 460,521
Feedback: 7 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 66 Times
Was Thanked 5,663 Times in 1,562 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 7 Times
Send a message via AIM to Nicolas Naranja
Default Re: off-types

Quote:
Originally Posted by PR-Giants View Post
What's a block of Giant Plantains?






What's your height difference between dwarf and normal?

The difference for the cultivars I grow is about 12 inches.
In my original planting of bananas I planted each variety in a block. All the plants in a row were the same variety. Depending on the variety I might have multiple rows. For me the difference between dwarf and normal is 6-8 feet. I have to get on top of the bed of my truck to touch the bottom of a tall plantain.
__________________
Some people go bananas, I went plantains.
Weather Underground PWS KFLCANAL7
Nicolas Naranja is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To Nicolas Naranja
Old 09-22-2015, 10:59 PM   #10 (permalink)
Commercial Grower
 
PR-Giants's Avatar
 
Location: Florida & Greater Antilles
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,544
BananaBucks : 2,891
Feedback: 16 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 2,900 Times
Was Thanked 12,463 Times in 3,620 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 3,204 Times
Default Re: off-types

Thanks for the info, I don't want super tall plantains either. I want plantains shorter than the semi-dwarf Maricongo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolas Naranja View Post
I have a tall one that was a reversion of a false horn Giant Plantain.
Your first statements sounds like you had a known false horn Giant Plantain that reverted to a tall French-type.

Now it sounds like it could have just been a seller error, either tc's or suckers from the org.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolas Naranja View Post
For me the difference between dwarf and normal is 6-8 feet. I have to get on top of the bed of my truck to touch the bottom of a tall plantain.
WOW 6-8 feet. The Red French-type have all flowered under 10 feet and the Maiden should be even shorter. The Dwarfs are a little under to a little over 9 feet.
__________________



PR-Giants Photo Gallery



15,000+ Varieties


Last edited by PR-Giants : 09-23-2015 at 06:26 AM.
PR-Giants is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To PR-Giants
Said thanks:
Reply   Email this Page Email this Page






Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
learning about the different types? sddarkman619 Main Banana Discussion 2 06-28-2014 07:20 PM
different sikkimensis types flounder Main Banana Discussion 4 09-01-2011 02:58 PM
How many different types? blownz281 Main Banana Discussion 6 08-15-2010 09:17 AM
Types of pups BGreen Main Banana Discussion 16 11-21-2007 10:56 PM
16 types for trade or for $5.00 plus shipping Marc Banana Plants For Sale & Auction 17 08-24-2006 06:33 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:41 AM.





All content © Bananas.org & the respective author.