natedogg1026

Guys I need some suggestions for my new bed. The soil sucks and has to go. It' full of clay and has poor drainage. I'm planning on digging down 15 to 18 inches and then layering it. I was thinking rock first, then good topsoil, then a foot of compost. Any tips, pics, or diagrams are greatly appreciated. I guess I should list what's going in the bed. Various nana', canna's, needle palm, sabal minor, gingers, various flowers, EE's (Col.), yucca's, and a few others. I am mainly catering to the nana's and palms. Thanx in advance!-Nate Dogg 12 days till spring!!!

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Richard

Nate, pitangadiego has written the following:

Bananas are shallow rooted and will adapt to most soils, so long as they receive a correspondingly appropriate amount of water. I have planted directly in my clay and cobble, and also in huge beds of pure compost, and the plants have been fine either way. Bananas supposedly like a temperature range of 55-90°, and grow most actively in this temperature range. “Reds” are generally more cold-sensitive than other varieties. Orinoco and California Gold are thought to be the most cold-hardy. All banana plants are very frost sensitive. From April to October, when growth is active, bananas need plenty of water, fertilizer and compost. From November to March, when growth is minimal, keep bananas moist, and do not fertilize. Excess water during dormancy causes the roots to rot.

His guide from last year's Festival Of Fruit has more information:
http://webebananas.com/FESTIVAL%20OF...%20Handout.pdf

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Lagniappe

Hi Nate ,
Be carefull digging out a spot in clay ,you may wind up with a pond!
It may work out better for you to build your bed on top of the clay .

natedogg1026

Pete, That's what I'm afraid of.

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sandy0225

Wouldn't it work better in clay, which we have, too really bad here- to till in some organic matter like compost, shredded leaves, and some sand in a wide area? but to plant your plants with whatever is at that depth and backfill it as it comes so that your plants don't end up in a bathtub? unless you're planting bog plants, they'd love it.

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Richard

In some cases you can add all you want but there is no possibility of drainage to the surrounding area. If in addition you can't control how much water is being added from rainfall, you will get a pond. This is my situation for the plats under construction, and so I'm building partially raised beds with an underground drain as pictured here:

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natedogg1026

O.K. Maybe these pics will help you understand what I'm doing. Originally this was a brick patio which was layed about 20 years ago by the previous owner. The bricks are broken and all the sand is gone out of the cracks so we fight grass every year. I took out the inside of the circle and am leaving a walkway from the garage to the greenhouse. This way I can expand my beds and only have to relay the path . The bed will be raised up 6 in. above the brick with a border. I'm worried about drainage with all the clay. Should I just build on top or excavate the whole bed? Also you can see how there is nothing but clay to work with. Anyone got suggestions?!

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D_&_T

How deep is the clay?

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natedogg1026

1-2ft. Yuck.

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D_&_T

Thats alot of digging or more hauling in to mix in a higher sided bed.

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mskitty38583

you could take all the clay out and fill it with good dirt, or you can do what im gonna do. take out part of the clay, add good dirt and some sand to mix well, and just go from there. my latest pics of the new part to my old flower bed is all red clay. im taking out about 6 inches deep of clay and mixing good dirt and sand with part of the clay to make it better. will also put in some composted cow poop. my outside cats should love that. just a suggestion.

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Lagniappe

That looks great ,Nate .
I built a lot of new beds at my place over the last two years and all of them were built on super hard clay . One was even built ON TOP of a sidewalk !
The sidewalk was too straight and industrial IMO and it held an inch or two of runoff water during the rain . I did drain quickly though but you would get your feet soaked if you used it while it was raining . I used about 8" -10
" of soil on top of it and the plants actually did great .
In my other beds,I used the same depth of soil and built it up around plants whose corm was too big to cover up (digging into the clay was not an option). When I went to dig up plants to give away I found that the worms had pulled organic material into the clay and the plant roots were in there as well .
I did try to amend the clay soil in some beds by tilling in material . The result : ponds

BTW...Thats a good looking walk . Hate to see you tear it out but you sure could build a nice pizza oven or fire pit with all those bricks.

natedogg1026

Kitty, What I'm afraid off is making a swimming pool because the water cant drain out. Normal rain, It'd be fine. But if we have rain like last year(23" in one month) Bad news. The weater patterns seem to repeat anymore like our ice storm. And I wouldn't be suprised to see a late freeze like last year. So I wonder about building on top of it, but that doesn't give much room for those big corms. They'd be 50/50. I just wanna do it once and get it right. This is where my hardy tropicals will be and each year they'll need more root space especially my palms. Some roots will go 3 or more feet under.

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mskitty38583

have you thought of digging like a french drain, maybe with a few run off tube in areas that are covered by mulch?

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Richard

Nate,
Those photos are really helpful. Nasty clay you've got there. Does that ground slope away from the house as it appears, maybe eight inches to a foot's worth over 20 feet? This would allow you to have a partially raised bed which drained off via "french drains" to the downhill side eventually to open ground.

The good part is that you only need 16 to 18 inches of depth. This can be achieved above ground by using 4 inch wide by 8 inch high cinder block, stacked two high.

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natedogg1026

Thought I'd update you with my progress on my "new beds". This weekend I went to town. Hauled out about 1000 lbs. of clay. Brought in 1000lbs. of river rock and at least 500lbs. of compost. My back still hurts! I dug down into the clay about a foot and shaped it so all the water would run to the front. Right in the middle. I kept doing flow tests to make sure all the water ran to one point. I then dug a box 5'x24"x24" box and filled it with rock. It will serve two purposes. A dry well and a place for my perforated 4" drain pipe to lay. I couldn't trench this weekend it was too muddy but there will be a pipe that runs all the way to the 6' drainage ditch at the property line. I then added a thin layer of river rock and back filled the whole flippin thing with compost. In the pics it's not that humped up but I ran out of compost. Next week I'll get some more and top it off and hope it has settled a bit. Eventually there will be a border and the sidewalk will be raised allowing me to make the bed taller. I figure I'll have 12-15" of corm space before they run into clay. The clay should help support the nana's in the wind and they should have plenty of food from the compost. I hope this works the way I designed it. The rain should pass through the compost with ease, be directed by the flow of the clay into the rock reservoir and drain via. the 4" perf. pipe. Thanx everyone for all your input. -Nate Ps. Please be gentle with any criticism as my back still hurts.

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mskitty38583

i thought i was a glutton for punishment..but you have me beat. i bet your back hurts. but it will be worth it. you are doing an awesome job!!. you nanas will love you.

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Richard

Way to go Nate! Get yourself a plastic bottle of "Liquid Gypsum". Then with a hose-end sprayer apply about a pint to the whole area at any time its convenient. Wait a few days afterwards before planting.

Good job taking control of your yard!

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Greenie

good job!

rocco

Good job Nate! Please pardon my ignorance, but what is the purpose of "Liquid Gypsum"?