|
My Pyrgos Garden...
Hello all!
As some of you requested to see pictures of my garden,i thought i would open a seperate thread where i will also be informing of photo updates of my garden. The whole process of creating this garden of mine as well as current photos of it can be seen here on Palmtalk,the International Palm Society's forum. This is mainly a palm,cycad and fern garden currently containing only a single ground planted Ensete ventricosum plus another potted one as far as bananas go. The rest of the plants belong mostly to the groups mentioned above. I hope you like it!:goteam: |
Re: My Pyrgos Garden...
You see, Konstantinos, that's what I'm talking about. Very nice. I'm officially adding this thread to my favs and hope to see it updated regularly. ;)
Btw. I was surprised to see trachys in that nursery. Do you grow many trachycarpuses in your area? Isn't that more of a temperate and wet climate liking palm? What about citruses, I haven't seen any, but do you grow them? Or just buy some locally at the market? :woohoonaner: |
Re: My Pyrgos Garden...
I am glad you liked it so much Jack!!!
As it can be seen from the 8 pages span my thread has in just the first 1,5years of creating this garden,i tend to update pretty regularly:D Trachycarpus fortunei are relatively commonly sold in various sizes in Greece. At the dry parts of Greece,with the insufficient irrigation usually provided by the owners(shops or the county usually)and under our blazing summer sun without any shade,they cant reach their full potential. But at the wetter parts of Greece which usually are also cooler/colder,they do reach their full potential and grow to be awesome! Pyrgos has a great climate that is both hot(its almost always at the top 10 warmest areas of Greece) and wet with 1m of rain annually distributed in 9months of the year. In this climate,Trachycarpus do great in the ground,especially if not planted in all day full sun as they tend to yellow at their leaf edges at the peek of the summer heat. They love water and my garden has lots of it below ground as ground water is only 1-3m below the soil surface and i think my Trachycarpus have already found it and should be pretty much independent now and hopefully may cope even better with our summer sun than last year when i first planted them as recently transplanted from the ground palms. Their root growth has been amazing the past year and they have already made a well developed root boss. The Trachycarpus at the nursery i am showing pictures of were recently transplanted from the ground and were seeing full sun all day long so werent in top condition but their trunk width and shape was good while most trunked Trachycarpus sold and seen in Greece has much thinner trunks. Trachycarpus fortunei is the only Trachycarpus sp. sold in Greece.... Pyrgos is a Citrus growing area actually so there are lots of them arround! My property had between others 4 Citrus trees in it before starting my garden. 1 died by itself,maybe during the worst winter ever in Pyrgos with a single night of -3,6C while the rest were fine after that with only thin branches damaged. I dug them out all though,giving them to my uncle to plant in his yard as i dont like grafted trees at all,as well as hybrids,so i got rid of all such trees and plants that my property contained. I also got rid of extreemely ungly prunned trees and only retained an Olea europea,a Ziziphus sp. tree and a Yucca elephantipes. The Olea is badly prunned but i hope to fix that gradually in the years to come and make it have natural looking branching again. Ziziphus has had its top damaged or cut at some point from what i can see but its acceptable in appearance and a species i like so this stays....I will be moving the Yucca to a neighbors yard soon as it wants to branch low and i dont have a place where it can do that without annoying other plants and i dont like to keep cutting the new branches it contiuously grows... |
Re: My Pyrgos Garden...
New updates and photos have been added to my Pyrgos Garden thread!
Enjoy! |
Re: My Pyrgos Garden...
Quote:
|
Re: My Pyrgos Garden...
Quote:
|
Re: My Pyrgos Garden...
Thanks Jack for placing an easilly visible link!
A link to the first page of my topic is posted in my first post in this thread but i guess it wasnt very easilly visible. |
Re: My Pyrgos Garden...
Woow Kostas that was a beautiful journey of you Garden...working hard.... i know i dont'n have to tell you it will be all100% worth it...
Thank you for posting...keep us post please. Thanks |
Re: My Pyrgos Garden...
Quote:
|
Re: My Pyrgos Garden...
I'm sorry I missed this thread until now. However, Konstantinos, if you don't mind, I'd like to know the reasons for you comment made back in May that you do not like grafted trees at all. I do a lot of grafting and enjoy both the activity and the results very much and would like to understand your reasoning.
Beautiful job at designing your garden! |
Re: My Pyrgos Garden...
Quote:
That probably goes for trees and other plants as well. I would very much like to see an expert video on grafting citruses and plants like that, Harvey, if you have the time and are feeling better, would you maybe be so kind to make a thread/video of you grafting some trees? You know, like the one on how to mail naners. I would appreciate it a lot. There are tons of videos on youtube, but usually you can't see whether the method is good enough and whether the grafts survive. |
Re: My Pyrgos Garden...
Most of our gardening is not natural as we're interfering with nature by planting non-native species. I'd like to know what it is specifically about grafting that he finds objectionable. We find a seedling that produces a superior quality fruit and, if we want to repeat the results, we graft. Some grafting occurs in nature on it's own, though it's not very commonly witnessed.
I have some photos of some of my chestnut grafting at Correia Chestnut Farm - American Grown Fresh Chestnuts From Our Family Farm to You; large hand-harvested Colossal chestnuts, recipes, instructions for roasting chestnuts, chestnut roasters, chestnut knives but maybe I'll do a video ones of these days and try to avoid cutting myself. It doesn't happen very often but seems more likely if it's being recorded for others! :ha: |
Re: My Pyrgos Garden...
I just know that I would like to know more about grafting:ha:
:woohoonaner: |
Re: My Pyrgos Garden...
Quote:
Your post is correct, but you can simulate a natural habitat that is viable and can proliferate without anybody being present (sometimes the end result is leaving the place be and go on its own) and don't have to worry in case of frosts, storms, droughts... because such plants and their natural dispersion in the space, their habitat... is highly resistant and can/usually regenerates more rapidly than most of the human aesthetic arrangements and sometimes displaced plants (for the particular climate, area or conditions). There are many gardeners and even farmers here, who like letting the nature be on its own and interfere as little as it is possible, whereas what they value is the plants' natural ability to create an effective and productive habitat that in turn offers (sometimes it's even the intended goal) desired/acceptable home for a very wide variety of fauna or just serves as a natural getaway for people in the cities (imagine having a forest behind your house...). Because the end-result is not likely to be a production farm, sharing traits such as yield, fruit quality is generally not necessary and is considered unnecessary intrusion into the nature's work. May it be in the form of grafting, selection or other processes fastening the natural development. Quote:
Thanks for the link as well. |
Re: My Pyrgos Garden...
Thank you very much all of you for your replys!
Emily, Thank you very much for your kind comments! I appreciate them very much! Jack, I am glad you think so! I think it will look pretty good and decent too but it will need some years for that...Indeed I have one of the best climates in Europe but...there are better around!(Crete,Cyprus,Canary Islands...) I love our high precipitation though and my shallow water table as it should enable most of my plants to eventually become independent of irrigation all year long which is a goal of mine! Harvey, I am glad you like my garden design! About my dislike for grafted trees,it's pretty much what Jack said and I have mentioned elsewhere in my thread on Palmtalk: I don't like them because grafting is unnatural,you don't get pure seed of the plant you want but rather from the rootstock tree,plus it's an unneeded messing with nature. I know how to graft too,my grandfather and father taught me but I just don't like grafted trees. I know it's fun doing it but I hate the result! The only grafted trees in my possession are Olea europea(100s) which were grafted with different variants of the same species when quite small. This is somewhat acceptable to me but if I could do it from the start,I would make sure to use non-grafted trees with the desirable characteristics. The same I will do when I plant any more in the future! I of course also have no problems with graftings mother nature does but they differ from the ones humans do!The only graft I would ever make would be to fix an important(ie irreplaceable/difficult to replace and look good/natural, tree brach that broke off for some reason,back in place :-) It's by no means necessary for all others to share my opinion,this is just me! Its true that grafted trees offer some advantages which stem from rootstock selection but they also have their problems such as graft aborting under severe stress,burning over or below graft point(need grafting again),inability to produce pure seeds of the graft species,etc these aren't everyday issues but do can happen. Personally,I would however prefer to just not grow something than to graft it on something else but that's just me! No offence intended in any of the above,this is just my opinion and I respect everyones opinion on the subject :-) Apart from grafted trees,I don't like hybrids and human made variants/cultivars. I do make an exception here for edible bananas which I don't mind growing them although I still prefer to keep the cultivars seperate from my pure species gardens. I consider them a fun grow as they are easy to grow,fast and nice to watch grow and nothing is at stake if something goes wrong for some reason. Plus they have really nice inflorescences,fruit without needing hand pollination and produce edible fruit as a bonus which is good when someone is considering permaculture(and I am!). Another thing that makes me consider the edibles is that if I plant a pure species banana and a neighbor plants an edible or a basjoo,I will be risking hybrids and will have to be protecting the flower and hand pollinate to get pure seeds and I wi have a load of cycads to hand pollinate to want to mess yet with another plant requiring that! So,although i am against hybrids and cultivars,edible bananas are ok with me,especially since they can't spread or take over and mess up any pure species native habitats as other hybrid plants can do... Again I respect everyone else's opinions as well :-) |
Re: My Pyrgos Garden...
Thanks so much, Kostas, for taking the time to help me understand your philosophy on these subjects. I make no judgment on your opinions but simply find it interesting to understand different people's points of views, especially when you also tolerate the views of others.
Some of my grafted chestnut trees look very natural and graft unions are no longer noticeable after a few years. Of course, it helps me a great deal to provide a uniform product to my customers and they know what to expect when they buy a particular variety from me. I have enjoyed growing some seedling chestnut trees but was very disappointed with the quality of the fruits and eventually removed them. I have seen some very good chestnuts from seedling trees else, where, and I took cuttings from these trees and grafted them onto my seedling rootstock trees! :) |
Re: My Pyrgos Garden...
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
When I was looking for a new, suitable place to live for more years, I used this map... (find attached below). Have a look at that and you will find out, how good climate you have, not only Europe-wise, but globally. Another similar is only in Brazil, Africa, ... (regarding the precipitation and underground reservoirs). |
Re: My Pyrgos Garden...
Thank you very much for your replys Harvey and Jack!
No problem Harvey,glad to be of help! Its always good to know both views of a subject! Yes,indeed,if the graft takes well,it can become invisible after some years as the trunk thickens. Most same species grafts take well enough for that to happen although there still is a tendency for the rootstock to sprout new branches just below the graft point after prunning which results in a trunk bulge in some cases(in olive trees). When they get a good age on them though,you cant notice anything in the majority of cases. I understand the need for uniformity in your profession as most costumers want just that! Personally i wouldnt mind what fruit qualities it turns out to have,whatever and if it has,it would be seed grown,pure and mine so...i would just love it for what it is!:ha: Out of curiosity,why do you prefer grafting on seedlings instead of just rooting branches from your source trees? Chestnut trees grow quite fast and you can take quite a few branch segments each year from which in turn,after rooting them,you can make even more plants! These would be clones of their source tree and non-grafted. The rooting phase takes some time but so does seed sprouting and seedling growth till grafting. Grafting at a small age,as you do, makes for the best grafted plants btw and i am sure your costumers are happy with their trees from you! Jack, Thank you very much for the map! Its an interesting general water resource map but not detailed enough to take into account microclimates. Here is a weather station in Pyrgos if you want to check out the specific climate of my area! Our precipitation is close to 1m a year and we sometimes exceed it too! The ground water in my property is only 2-3meters below soil level in the end of our dry season(3 dry months,June,July,August with sometimes some precipitation is June if we are lucky) and about 60 cm or less in the heart of our wet season:ha: Precipitation is very important for me too and i consider myself very lucky to have both a good enough microclimate to grow most of the plants i like and such high precipitation and shallow water table to sustain these once established even if i dont water them! Thats a very important factor for me and in buying my main house property,i will take into account precipitation and water table as well as temprature minimums of course. High precipitation and shallow water table coupled with a 9b or 10a climate are very hard to find in Attica where my main house will probably be but you can find even 10b with good precipitation in Southwest Peloponissos and in Chania,Crete(that may even be 11!)! I am considering it for South Peloponissos if its possible but if i were to move even more far in Greece,i would rather move to Costa Rica,Venezuela or Brazil and enjoy a proper wet tropical climate as i like it than trying to do with a mimic one here....Life is far cheaper in these places as well comparing to Greece... |
Re: My Pyrgos Garden...
Quote:
I hope to be offering chestnut trees for sale before long through a nursery I'm establishing and some of these trees will be grafted to two varieties as some of the finest eating varieties do not produce pollen and require a pollinator. Most hobbyists/homeowners would prefer to buy just one tree rather than two trees to get a crop. By the way, I have a chestnut tree with one limb grafted to a clone that is a seedling from a chestnut which came from Crete. It showed great promise the first year or two but not so well since then, unfortunately. |
Re: My Pyrgos Garden...
Thank you very much for your reply Harvey!
I didn't know chestnuts were so difficult to root from cuttings! Have you tried air layering and sucker rooting(bending the sucker and burrying it's middle part in the soil)? These generally work with most anything as the branch still feeds from the mother tree all the time needed to root. I didnt know and would never thing you would have root rot issues with Chestnuts! Here they grow in the wettest of our mountain forests and enjoy it! Crete is pretty dry though and i don't think there is a chestnut forest on it so it wouldn't need rot hardiness to survive in most areas of Crete! Chestnuts usually grow in wet mountains here. They are part of vast mostly deciduous forests and are in a semi wild state. They are left alone and just harvested when their season comes! They are HUGE trees here!!!! I wish you success with your business!!! All the best, -Konstantinos |
Re: My Pyrgos Garden...
Quote:
|
Re: My Pyrgos Garden...
Chestnuts are very susceptible to Phytophthora cinnamomi and this problem exists in many mountain chestnut growing regions in Italy, France, and Portugal (I've witnessed it firsthand in Italy and Portugal and discussed it with many researchers). The Marsol cultivar which I use as a rootstock was bred in France to help combat the problem. If soils are well-drained and saturated conditions are avoided, Phytophthora cinnamomi does not multiply and destroy plants. I've read that it requires saturated conditions for 24 hours to to multiply. It requires warmer soil temperatures so saturated soil in the winter will not usually result in problems either. I witnessed a chestnut orchard here in California which was under several feet of water for a few weeks during the winter due to a levee failure and the orchard survived fine. However, it later was in decline as a poor practice of flood irrigation was being used which resulted in saturated conditions in the heavy soil this orchard was planted in. If I recall correctly, Phytophthora cinnamomi was introduced into the USA from Europe but is widely spread here now.
Most of the huge wild chestnut forests in the USA were destroyed by another pest, the Chestnut Blight. This pest was introduced from Asia and is also present in parts of Europe. Another pest that is causing widespread destruction of chestnuts in parts of Europe (at least in Northern Italy and perhaps elsewhere, but I'm not certain at the moment) is the gall wasp which is another pest which was introduced into the USA and Europe from Asia. This does reinforce the comment I made earlier that planting non-native plants is not natural either and in these cases the results have been very disastrous. I'm now recalling a very interesting discussion (more like a shouting match) at a chestnut conference I attended in Marradi, Italy in October 2001. I nurseryman was discussing various cultivars that could grow well in Italy, including some Asian selections. He illustrated his presentation with photographs of orchards planted on fairly level ground. Some of the audience were mostly interested in chestnuts in their natural mountain environment and were appalled that anyone would propose that chestnuts be planted on flat ground. These people were mostly interested in maintaining forest conditions without consideration of chestnuts as a food crop. The discussion did calm down but it was clear that there were very strong and different opinions on the culture of chestnuts. |
Re: My Pyrgos Garden...
Its unfortunate they are vulverable to so many things.
I think the rot issue exist for you because they are grown in warm locations where they dont grow naturally.Our Chestnut forests are located in the coldest and wettest of our mountains. Soil is saturated all winter and possibly most of the year(they are on mountainsides though so there is decent drainage although the soil is heavy and saturated) but its cool most of the year as well. The trees are abandoned and they live just fine here! I think planting exotics doesnt present a problem as long as you get healthy plants and they dont belong to a genus native to your country. There do are some exotics that are invasive and destructive to the local forests and may present problems and these are better not planted. Exotics arent natural to an area outside their environment(but do are natural as species and do exist wild in their home environment!) but add beauty to the scenery and makes you feel you are in the place you are imitating! Many are pretty rare as well and some outright endangered and benefit from being cultivated and propagated for more people to enjoy and ultimately,for repatriation if possible. |
Re: My Pyrgos Garden...
I don't have a particular problem with root rot as I manage my irrigation water carefully and have my trees planted on mounds. Still, having a resistant rootstock is something that would make management easier.
I have met an Italian researcher on two occasions and her father has 5,000 hectares of chestnuts in the mountains of Italy and Phytophthora cinnamomi has been a serious problem for them. It was also a serious problem in native areas of northern Portugal which I visited. Maybe the pest just has not been imported to your location yet? A problem still exists whenever you import non-native plants into your area as you must be careful not to overlook any hidden pests, including ones that may not even be recognized or identified yet. They chestnut gall wasp introduction cited above is a relatively recent phenomena when people thought they were being careful. Unfortunately, the pests hide in dormant buds and were not detected. Some of the exotic insect pests introduced into California in the past couple of years have a very wide range of hosts, including native species. I sometimes wonder how much different the area around me may look when 30-40 years from now. I certainly am not trying to discourage you from bringing in exotics, but just pointing out that it is not natural and has risks that come along with it. |
Re: My Pyrgos Garden...
I think just working with what you have is the best. After a while,you learn its problems,what works and what doesnt with it and from then on you cultivate it successfully!
I am not sure if we have this pest in Greece but if we havent better it stays away i guess! I do agree there is such risk unfortunately. But it can only be close to eliminated with measures such as the ones Australia has taken and not by anything less. We can only do our best to avoid bringing pests to our country by knowing the pest of the country of origin that would affect the plant we are bringing and checking for them when we get it,taking the neccessary measures to eliminate the pests. Native species usually are part of a big chain of biotic and abiotic relantionships and so native habitats are generally more stable and can counteract some influences such as certain foreign pests. If the natives however are really prone to a certain pest,then the results are devastating such as those with Cycas micronesica in habitat,in Guam where it used to be the dominant species all over the island and now it is predicted to become extinct there by 2012....Many corrective actions have been tried with limited success and now another natural enemy of the offending insect will be introduced to the island to hopefully prevent the prediction from becoming reallity.... I agree it has its risks but i am putting the best of my effords minimizing them while still being able to have the plants i want. |
Re: My Pyrgos Garden...
Hi Konstantinos, just getting to look at your garden just today because I havent had a lot of free time on the computer lately and the org has become so large. Very impressive. Hopefully I'll make it to Greece ( as well as a few other European spots where friends have gardens) and have a look.
B |
Re: My Pyrgos Garden...
Thank you very much for your reply Bob!
I am glad you like it! You are very much welcome when you make it here to see it from close and hopefully the plants will have grown some more to be more impressive! |
Re: My Pyrgos Garden...
I updated my Pyrgos Garden thread on PalmTalk with lots of new pictures! :)
You will find the latest updates here. |
Re: My Pyrgos Garden...
I have updated my thread on PalmTalk several times in the past months and a good volume of photographic material has been gathered there for anyone wishing to see.
Enjoy!!! :) |
Re: My Pyrgos Garden...
Just checked out your PT thread. Looking good!
|
Re: My Pyrgos Garden...
Thank you very much Micthel! I am glad you like my garden! :)
|
| All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:13 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.8,
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.
All content © Bananas.org & the respective author.