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Old 12-15-2017, 07:36 AM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Hiya Lowering transplanted sucker failure ratio



Hello to all and thank you for accepting me on this forum. We are creating a banana plantation in northern Thailand and have already got quite a few fields on the way with 2000 plus plants in the ground, the first field already starting to fruit.
I would like to discuss how to improve the failure ratio of transplanted banana suckers of the namwa variety. For instance, we planted a new field with 400 suckers, in holes filled with a mix of our sandy soil and cow dung, the holes are spaced two meters apart, are all individually sprinkler irrigated. this was done exactly two months ago. The suckers were bathed in a solution of KMnO4 before transplanting.
Today, after inspection, the field showed a sucker failure ratio of 28% which I would like to reduce in future fields.
I would be grateful for suggestions from other experienced planters on how to improve our performance, thanks.
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Old 12-15-2017, 08:44 AM   #2 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Lowering transplanted sucker failure ratio

You should used the new member/introduction forum to introduce your self.

A number of things could be going on, so digging up a few of the 'failed' suckers to inspect their roots is recommended. ... Suckers with few and/or damaged roots will show transplant stress more & longer than those with more abundant & healthy roots. It may be those suckers needed to have been culled rather than being transplanted. ... Ask a local expert for his opinion. You haven't given a lot needed detail to really answer you question.

Now I suspect (???) the dung mixture, if fresh dung was used, should not be in direct contact with the corm & roots. Place the dung mixture in the bottom of the hole then fill in & set the sucker with the natural soil.

I'm not familiar with using KMnO4, so could some of the corms or roots be damaged/burned by the solution? I think KMnO4 solutions may be much stronger than chlorine bleach solutions.

Anyway, welcome to the forum.
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Old 12-15-2017, 09:32 AM   #3 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Lowering transplanted sucker failure ratio

Thanks for your reply, much appreciated. We are dipping in the Permanganate solution at 200 ppm as recommended by FAO. I will dig up some failed suckers tomorow and dissect them and take some pictures and post them.What is the failure ratio that could be expected as normal/minimal?
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Old 12-15-2017, 10:55 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lowering transplanted sucker failure ratio

They may rot if they are too damaged after digging, a single clean cut is ideal, but can be difficult to achieve sometimes. I often leave newly separated suckers to heal for a day or two before planting as well, if you are planting them right away, you may see more failure. And lastly, 2 months may not be quite long enough to tell if something truely died, sometimes they will die back, but start again from a sucker which takes more time.
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Old 12-15-2017, 11:15 AM   #5 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Lowering transplanted sucker failure ratio

Thanks for the advice. In this last field, the suckers were given a couple of days to heal, in the shade. I do agree that after two months, they could still bud from the meristem but actually when this happens, these particular plants mature much later than the rest of the crop and cause uneven fruiting time which is not ideal. We of course are compensating this by sufficient numbers in the long run. Ideally I am aiming to maximise successful growth of the original stem that was transplanted as this gives us faster maturation. So I am looking to improve the success ratio of the transplants. I do not think any of the suckers we planted last were poorly dug up, they were in fact pretty heavy and rounded at the root. Maybe too old. Maybe we should try with younger shoots but it is not always easy to get an even choice when asking for big numbers. We still have another 4000 to put in the ground so improving our performance will save $ and labor.
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Old 12-15-2017, 11:40 AM   #6 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Lowering transplanted sucker failure ratio

Quote:
Originally Posted by louis14 View Post


Hello to all and thank you for accepting me on this forum. We are creating a banana plantation in northern Thailand and have already got quite a few fields on the way with 2000 plus plants in the ground, the first field already starting to fruit.
I would like to discuss how to improve the failure ratio of transplanted banana suckers of the namwa variety. For instance, we planted a new field with 400 suckers, in holes filled with a mix of our sandy soil and cow dung, the holes are spaced two meters apart, are all individually sprinkler irrigated. this was done exactly two months ago. The suckers were bathed in a solution of KMnO4 before transplanting.
Today, after inspection, the field showed a sucker failure ratio of 28% which I would like to reduce in future fields.
I would be grateful for suggestions from other experienced planters on how to improve our performance, thanks.
Exactly what pathogens is potassium permanganate supposed to prevent?

28% failure sounds terrible. Would it be out of the question to establish suckers in pots using soilless potting media before planting in the field? I only mention this because, in my experience, the failure rate for potted suckers is close to zero.
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Old 12-15-2017, 01:01 PM   #7 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Lowering transplanted sucker failure ratio

The Permanganate is recommended as an anti fungus. Potting would be impractical/impossible as when we buy suckers they can weigh several kgs each. I have been using the Permanganate to disinfect the suckers we purchase from other plantations, to avoid bringing infections into ours. But I am getting similar failure ratios with sucker transplants from our own plants. However, the rest of the crop is beautiful, strong and tall so we do not think it is a soil or PH problem.We also have planted fields of Khai and Gros Michel and the ratio is much better, between 5 and 10 max. We used Permanganate in the same way, the work was done by the same staff. The high failure ratio is with the Namwa variety which is surprising as it is a very resistant locally developped plant.
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Old 12-15-2017, 01:44 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lowering transplanted sucker failure ratio

Size of the sucker, and how well rooted it is could be an issue. Using cow dung, especially when it can contact a fresh cut may be an issue. Changing to well-composted organic material might be an answer, and then applying the cow dung on the surface a few weeks after planting. Fertilizers and manures can be top watered to leach them into the root zone and also provide some measure of weed control, as well.

Granted, Southern California is a different climate, and I have a small orchard, not a plantation, but failure of pups here has to be well under 1% using 100% compost in planting hole, and as a top dressing, even if done in winter months.

Posting a picture of the actual suckers that you are transplanting would be helpful.
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Old 12-15-2017, 06:32 PM   #9 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Lowering transplanted sucker failure ratio

Ok, I've got it. File sizes reduced, it works. Here are some photos from the suckers we bought last[IMG][/IMG]

Last edited by louis14 : 12-15-2017 at 07:12 PM. Reason: Photo upload
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Old 12-15-2017, 07:09 PM   #10 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Lowering transplanted sucker failure ratio

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Originally Posted by louis14 View Post
I have attempted various uploads of pictures to no result. Do new members need to acquire privilege to upload and post pictures? Can an admin help? Thanks

Look at the bottom of the upload page. There is a size limit (5200 kb) and user disk space limit. Make the photos smaller. I suggest paper size of 4" x 6" at 150 or 200 dpi. This is a good size for the internet/forum as well as making the most of your user disk space.
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Old 12-15-2017, 07:15 PM   #11 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Lowering transplanted sucker failure ratio

And the prepared field, before and one month after transplanting




Last edited by louis14 : 12-16-2017 at 02:27 PM. Reason: pic
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Old 12-15-2017, 07:18 PM   #12 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Lowering transplanted sucker failure ratio

The suckers, when we buy them are cut down to a length of about 40 to 50 cm
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Old 12-15-2017, 07:59 PM   #13 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Lowering transplanted sucker failure ratio

I would agree that the manure in the planting mix is the most likely issue, but could not help noticing you said that Namwah is common in your area... Is it possible there is some localized pest or disease doing this as you stated this rate is only in Namwah?
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Varieties I supposedly bought: Manzano, Cavendish, Blue Java, Sweetheart, and Gros Michel.
What it seems I actually have: Brazilian, Cavendish, Namwah, Dwarf Red, Gros Michel, Pisang Ceylon, Veinte Cohol and SH 3640, and American Goldfinger. FHIA 1, Paggi and FHIA 17... Always room for one more.
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Old 12-15-2017, 10:31 PM   #14 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Lowering transplanted sucker failure ratio

Thank you for all the input. It's true that we have had less failure with Khai and Gros Michel but now that I study the problem I am starting to believe that the suckers of Namwah supplied to us are too big and have never been stunted whereas the suckers of the other varieties had stunting scars, little leaf, were bullet shaped and that these are more successful and take immediately, especially in the rainy season. In our next field of Namwah we will select only this type of sucker and I can measure the difference. We will also follow your advice on the cow dung.We should be planting a new field next week so results will be quick to evaluate.
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Old 12-16-2017, 12:28 AM   #15 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Lowering transplanted sucker failure ratio

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... But I am getting similar failure ratios with sucker transplants from our own plants. ...
Do you use the permanganate on the sucker transplants from your own plants? If so, you can try transplants without it because there is no danger of introducing new infections. If not, then permanganate is not the cause of your failures. If it is the cause of your failures, you can switch to another fungicide.
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Old 12-16-2017, 01:47 AM   #16 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Lowering transplanted sucker failure ratio

Thanks, we will also make sure not to use the Permanganate with our own transplants and evaluate
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Old 12-16-2017, 10:29 AM   #17 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Lowering transplanted sucker failure ratio

Just a note: From the above photo the trimmed sucker most have roots while I see some with little to not roots. Those without roots will show transplant shock and will take a month or more to regrow new roots. These are likely the ones you are calling 'failed transplants'. ... These are the ones I suggested above that should be culled from field planting and may be put into a nursery bed to regrow roots to save cost. Then transplanted into a new field when ready along with other healthy suckers.

I recently removed some suckers (3ft to 4 ft sword suckers) from my Dwarf Namwah to transplant. The corms were big, but several had no roots of their own. I transplanted those anyway to force the corm to grow roots. This will take time. But time that will delay your plant output.

So (I think) corms with no roots and poor handling causing root damage is most probable the major cause of your transplant failures.
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Old 12-16-2017, 02:16 PM   #18 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Lowering transplanted sucker failure ratio

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Originally Posted by edwmax View Post
Just a note: From the above photo the trimmed sucker most have roots while I see some with little to not roots. Those without roots will show transplant shock and will take a month or more to regrow new roots. These are likely the ones you are calling 'failed transplants'. ... These are the ones I suggested above that should be culled from field planting and may be put into a nursery bed to regrow roots to save cost. Then transplanted into a new field when ready along with other healthy suckers.//.

So (I think) corms with no roots and poor handling causing root damage is most probable the major cause of your transplant failures.
Thanks for this very relevant comment. I reviewed photos of other purchases that have shown low failure ratios and the roots are much longer and much more present. Here a photo of a purchase of Gros Michel that showed excellent success ratios.




Last edited by louis14 : 12-16-2017 at 02:22 PM. Reason: pic
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Old 12-16-2017, 02:42 PM   #19 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Lowering transplanted sucker failure ratio

Additionally, these particular suckers waited quite a few too many days in the shade before planting. They looked rather dry and stale by the time they went into the ground but this did not affect success, maybe even on the contrary, as Gabe15 has said, that time in the 39 degree shade allowed for healing.



Some unexpected tenants had even started nesting under them


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Old 12-16-2017, 05:15 PM   #20 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Lowering transplanted sucker failure ratio

A scorpion? Wow, are they bad for banana plants where you are at?
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