Bananas.org
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Show 50 post(s) from this thread on one page

Bananas.org (http://www.bananas.org/)
-   Main Banana Discussion (http://www.bananas.org/f2/)
-   -   Last night burned bad (http://www.bananas.org/f2/last-night-burned-bad-13111.html)

Nicolas Naranja 12-15-2010 03:36 PM
Last night burned bad
 
Everything that was under 5' tall got toasted last night, so I've got about 1200 very ugly looking plants. On the bright side, the plants with fruit came through OK.

mushtaq86 12-15-2010 04:37 PM
Re: Last night burned bad
 
:pics:

Kostas 12-15-2010 05:22 PM
Re: Last night burned bad
 
I am very sorry for that Nicolas. At least the fruit came through ok!
What was last night's minimum? Was the pseudostem affected or only the leaf blades?

mushtaq86 12-15-2010 05:25 PM
Re: Last night burned bad
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolas Naranja (Post 150417)
Everything that was under 5' tall got toasted last night, so I've got about 1200 very ugly looking plants. On the bright side, the plants with fruit came through OK.
Was it just the leaves.

Dean W. 12-15-2010 05:44 PM
Re: Last night burned bad
 
Sorry to hear it...

Nicolas Naranja 12-15-2010 06:32 PM
Re: Last night burned bad
 
Small Dwarf Puerto Ricans


Taller Dwarf Puerto Ricans


Dwarf Nam Wahs


FHIA-17s

Nicolas Naranja 12-15-2010 06:38 PM
Re: Last night burned bad
 
I don't know how cold it got and I'm not 100% sure it was last night that did them in. Everyone I have talked to up there says it was about 35-36 last night, but there was no wind. When I went up there with a handheld Monday night the wind was blowing hard and my handheld was reading between 28 and 30, a normal thermometer was reading 30 about 1 mile down the road away from the lake. I think the taller plants just had leaf burn, but real small ones I fear may have been killed outright.

Olafhenny 12-15-2010 09:33 PM
Re: Last night burned bad
 
Hi Nicolas,

wind or no wind, I cannot see how any plant can sustain that kind of damage at above freezing temperatures. It takes ice crystals, which form within cells and crush their structure to create that damage, and not even hurricane strengths winds can accomplish that at temperatures even a fraction above freezing.

Now, when the temps sink below 0^C (32^F) , wind suddenly becomes an important factor, as the faster subfreezing air brushes by the leaves, the faster it will cool and cause the formation of ice crystals within the cells of the leaf.

You are correct, when you assume. that the damage may have occurred prior to the night in question, because the damage only becomes evident after it thaws again. During the frost period the ice crystals still support the leaf structure, but when it thaws, everything crumples. – Just toss a lettuce leaf into your freezer. You will see, that it still looks okay, when you first take it out, but it will quickly turn soft and collapse thereafter.

Best,
Olaf

Nicolas Naranja 12-15-2010 09:45 PM
Re: Last night burned bad
 
Bananas are a little bit different than other plants, they will actually get damaged at above freezing because the sap congeals at low temperatures. Wind can burn leaves, I've seen it with my own eyes in the middle of summer. The question for me is, was it frost last night or was it an actual advective freeze, which is pretty unusual within 1000 feet of lake Okeechobee.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olafhenny (Post 150459)
Hi Nicolas,

wind or no wind, I cannot see how any plant can sustain that kind of damage at above freezing temperatures. It takes ice crystals, which form within cells and crush their structure to create that damage, and not even hurricane strengths winds can accomplish that at temperatures even a fraction above freezing.

Now, when the temps sink below 0^C (32^F) , wind suddenly becomes an important factor, as the faster subfreezing air brushes by the leaves, the faster it will cool and cause the formation of ice crystals within the cells of the leaf.

You are correct, when you assume. that the damage may have occurred prior to the night in question, because the damage only becomes evident after it thaws again. During the frost period the ice crystals still support the leaf structure, but when it thaws, everything crumples. – Just toss a lettuce leaf into your freezer. You will see, that it still looks okay, when you first take it out, but it will quickly turn soft and collapse thereafter.

Best,
Olaf

Olafhenny 12-15-2010 11:06 PM
Re: Last night burned bad
 
Hi Nicholas,

I imagine, that it would take quite some hot and dry weather t "burn" banana leaves, i.e., dry them out and that is highly unlikely in this time of the year.

I do not know anything about sap gelling in banana leaves, but I would imagine, that as soon as the temperature rises, the gel would liquefy again? From my perspective of ignorance on the subject, I find it difficult to believe, that the gel would actually destroy the leave structure, other than through starvation over a substantial period of time.

I would still put my money on an unexpected brief period of frost in the early morning hours of a clear day. But, hey, I have been wrong before, especially when I did not know what I was talking about. :)
again.
Best,
Olaf

Nicolas Naranja 12-16-2010 07:33 AM
Re: Last night burned bad
 
http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/ass...e-response.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olafhenny (Post 150464)
Hi Nicholas,

I imagine, that it would take quite some hot and dry weather t "burn" banana leaves, i.e., dry them out and that is highly unlikely in this time of the year.

I do not know anything about sap gelling in banana leaves, but I would imagine, that as soon as the temperature rises, the gel would liquefy again? From my perspective of ignorance on the subject, I find it difficult to believe, that the gel would actually destroy the leave structure, other than through starvation over a substantial period of time.

I would still put my money on an unexpected brief period of frost in the early morning hours of a clear day. But, hey, I have been wrong before, especially when I did not know what I was talking about. :)
again.
Best,
Olaf

rick2001 12-16-2010 09:15 AM
Re: Last night burned bad
 
Nicolas I'm very sorry for you and your 'nanas....

But is it normal to reach such freezing temps in Florida ??? It is supposed to be a subtropical area....

coast crab 12-16-2010 10:54 AM
Re: Last night burned bad
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolas Naranja (Post 150442)
I don't know how cold it got and I'm not 100% sure it was last night that did them in. Everyone I have talked to up there says it was about 35-36 last night, but there was no wind. When I went up there with a handheld Monday night the wind was blowing hard and my handheld was reading between 28 and 30, a normal thermometer was reading 30 about 1 mile down the road away from the lake. I think the taller plants just had leaf burn, but real small ones I fear may have been killed outright.
Nicolas,

We had some terrible nights here too last week and this week. Last Saturday I cut burned/blackened foliage off of everything (I know, but I don't want to look at that mess all winter), and we went to 24 here Tuesday morning and woke up to 64 this morning!

The first damage that showed up was on the plants outside of my oak canopy. It wasn't freeze damage as much as it was frost damage. I remember nursery friends telling me that if there is wind, there won't be frost, which is a good thing for them. It's those still, damp nights that can do some real damage to tender plants even without an actual freeze. That wind can be a life saver above freezing, but all bets are off below freezing. Maybe this is what happened, you may have been hit a couple of frosty nights in a row. From that picture your plants are in the wide open with no protection.

Russell

Nicolas Naranja 12-16-2010 11:38 AM
Re: Last night burned bad
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rick2001 (Post 150479)
Nicolas I'm very sorry for you and your 'nanas....

But is it normal to reach such freezing temps in Florida ??? It is supposed to be a subtropical area....
No, it is very unusual to have such low temps especially this early in the year. Apparently we broke some 50 year old records. And my farm is just east of a very large body of water. It's been a troubling past 2 years with freezes. Florida tends to go through freeze cycles and every few decades we will have several freezes year after year. In the late 70s it snowed in Miami and then there were harsh freezes several times in the 80s culminating in the 89 freeze which destroyed the citrus industry. It actually froze my pool as a kid. After that there were only 2 minor freezes until 2009.

John O 12-16-2010 12:34 PM
Re: Last night burned bad
 
Tuesday night / Wednesday early morning was bad for me also. All my Canna have collapsed, most / all Thai Black burned, all Siam ruby burned, all Misaluki burned, all Dwarf Cavendish burned, all Basjool burned, all Ensete Maurelii burned collapse plus even Arboricola Trinette got frost burn on the tips. I was hoping for a better winter in Fl. (Pinellas County) this year. Doesn't look good for the nursery if spring isn't a bang out year.

John

Olafhenny 12-16-2010 11:15 PM
Re: Last night burned bad
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolas Naranja (Post 150474)
Thank you Nicholas, this is a very interesting article and I made sure to file it away. Having so far only 7 months of experience with only the M Basjoo, I need all the information I can get and this was a bundle of that.

Unfortunately the article, while discussing the impact of low temperatures on the fruit, it did not go into much detail about how low temperature affects leaves. However, if the fruit can be harmed by low, but above freezing temperatures, even during relatively brief exposures. it is safe to assume, that the leaves are similarly susceptible.

In my case the Basjoo sustained some damage, to the upper leaves only, after a light frost, while the lower, more protected ones remained still in reasonable shape.

Let us hope, that the rest of the winter will remain warmer and friendlier toward your bananas.
Best,
Olaf

rick2001 12-17-2010 02:57 AM
Re: Last night burned bad
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolas Naranja (Post 150485)
Apparently we broke some 50 year old records. A
It's the same here in Rome..... I can't even remember the last time we reached -4° celsius ... especially in December.
Even the Basjoos suffered the last few days' chill.

Nicolas Naranja 12-17-2010 08:21 AM
Re: Last night burned bad
 
Apparently I had some frost in my backyard, which I don't believe has happened since 1989. I've noticed some of the grass has dried out and died and the broadleaf weeds are black.

TommyMacLuckie 12-17-2010 10:17 AM
Re: Last night burned bad
 
Nicolas, I looked up the weather history for your area and it was the morning of December 15th it got down to 30F.

That's pretty bad for that far south. It got down to 26F here in Mandeville, LA (only 35 in New Orleans). I've been cleaning up dead banana fronds - thousands of 'em - for days now. I'll be finishing up all the tall stuff today. It's a lot of work but only for a few days.

All the fruit that was out got zapped. 99% of what got badly damaged in January did not get to mature at all this year. And now approximately 11 months to the day? later, another zapper.

Where is the so called global "warming" when it seems we're just getting colder and colder spells like this? Where is this supposed La Nina that gives the SE US a warmer and wetter winter on average?

All worthless myths!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was playing on the beach in Fort Lauderdale in...1977? 1979? when it snowed. I was just a kid.

Nicolas Naranja 12-17-2010 02:46 PM
Re: Last night burned bad
 
We tend to have some incredible microclimates along the lake shore. There is a weather station about a mile from the lake that measured 30, the one at my work which is 5 miles from the lake measured 25. At my house about 200' from the lake shore it was 34. The closest official weather station to my farm measured 34 as well, but it is about 2 miles south.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:54 PM.
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Show 50 post(s) from this thread on one page

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.8, Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.
All content © Bananas.org & the respective author.