Mike Lee

I'd say that we're in a 9b zone. We're about 15 miles from the ocean so that moderates the winter lows. Of course, what we don't get is blistering summer heat. Most summer days start at 50 deg, get some morning cloudiness that burns off at 10:00. temps will rise to 80 and only infrequently into the 90's. Just 10 or so days over a 100. Really it's quite comfortable for living. But I don't get that explosive and sustained summer growth.

Next year, I'm going to paint my leaves each month and chart how each grows. So for me, it won't be just what survives the winter but how each grows in the cool spring and only luke-hot summer.

Not that I don't believe you, Joe that my bananas will do fine this winter, I'm just a cautious type with plants I have some emotional attachment. And I don't know whether they're all thick enough for overwintering in place. I also was a bit overzealous in digging up pups to share that it might have slowed them a bit. Now, I've learned that you don't go ALL AROUND the mother plant severing pups 'cause the Mom can flop over.

I think some I'll dig up and store, and the rest I'll wrap with this thick remay stuff, Agribon50 which I use to cover trees. And I guess I'll cover the top with some plastic as well.

I may have the same problem as you, Mike in that we might be a bit warm for storage. But if I can get good ground contact (without moisture) it may be cold enough.

__________________
Mike Lee
Forestville, CA Zone 9

jeffreyp

I really think it's a bunch of BS that cg is some new variety.. California gold is just a dwarf ORINOCO. I personally wouldn't be duped into thinking it's some amazing magical variety. Members from other message boards attest to the fruit quality being identical to dwarf orinoco. Just like orinoco, cg has to be 100% ripe to be edible.

mikevan

Heck, Jeff, here in Texas with the winds, my nanners look ratty all year. I call it the Island Look (tm). I may try planting a CG up against the house - wife willing - to see how it does here in windy Zone 8 but here some sort of protection seems to be in order - I just don't trust our winters - unless Global Warming blesses me with even warmer winters. However, with lotsa bamboo going in soon, I hope they'll form a sufficient windbreak to allow a micro-climate to form to make it easier to winterize my nanners. Fingers crossed... At face value, I have to admit to some skepticism about CG, but with all the glowing reports from other growers here and on Gardenweb, I'm now more curious than anything. Perhaps it'll be on my list next year...

Be well,
Mike

Frankallen

Why would you come here making "Statements" like the above without any Proof?? Where is your Proof that a CG is an "Orinoco" ??? How many years of testing have you conducted??

Frank

jearl

If you believe that, then you must also beleive that Ice Cream ,Cardaba, and Saba are just orinocos...
Joe Real's observation is right on when he said..CG fruit tastes like Saba... Maybe Calif Gold is just a Dwarf Saba?... who knows.


Jeff

Taylor

He is just jealous because he can't have one LOL Just Kidding.

jeffreyp

Take a look at the plant and fruit morphology of orinoco and the supposed california gold. If you make an honest comparison you will see they are the same plants.

Hey I gotta give the guy on ebay credit for successfully marketing orinoco as california gold and he has made some serious cash $$ over the past year.

mikevan

Just how honest a comparison? Orinoco gets to around 10' in decent conditions, taller in more ideal conditions. BigDog's in Zone 7 were going past 9' - look at his nifty Winterizing Tutorial. This CG gets to 5-6', in the ground in a nice area according to the news-video coverage - with fruit you actually have to reach down to pick. Watch the video! Do I need to hold one eye closed, or spin around in circles rapidly to make them look more the same? You do know that you're talking to people who are banana-growers and collectors and enthusiasts, don't you? Some who do indeed grow both the CG and Orinoco.

And I don't see Jeff getting rich off this alledged scam of his that you seem to assert (could that be considered libel or slander?) - it's an aweful lot of work to dig up and sell pups, and he's only sold a handful. And, these claims are easy to debunk - if his turns to mush at 32F for instance - yet experienced and respected growers are indeed claiming higher hardiness in CG than their other nanners! I went thru the skeptic route and did the research. Results? I plan on buying one next year. It may be a pup from a known nanner - but as nanners have proven to be highly variable in their genetics, by the amount of growers out there who've put this one thru the cold test, this sport does indeed stand out. 142 buyers - not many when compared to other sellers and clearly not the amount you'd expect from a professional eBay seller, but with a glowing reputation and clearly positive feedback on a product that very rapidly demostrates its true nature the first time frost rolls around - the burden of proof is now on you... Please take more care in expressing your skeptisism.

Mike

Zac in NC

Mike- I don't think you know who you are talking to either. Have you seen Alton Brown's Good Eats Banana show? If you have, you have seen Jeff on the show. Its his yard they start off the show in. I have known Jeff through other forums for about 4 years now and he does know what he's talking about. Just a little more information. I don't know much on whether or not Cali Gold and Orinoco are or are not the same. Not trying to start a flame war or anything.


Zac

mikevan

That's too cool! I totally missed that show - and Alton's my hero! Well... one of them. His show cracks me up! Wow - that's pretty neat. I'll need to start scanning the re-runs now for Jeff's debut to fame...

Oh, I was skeptical at first until I took the time to dig in for myself and it's the research thru this and other forums that has convinced me to bid on a CG next year (or beg for one if I lose). That Alton Brown bit tho - wow. Just plain Wow.

Be well,
Mike

AnnaJW

All I can say is LOVED that "Good Eats" episode. (Love AB, always!!!) That was so cool to see Jeff's plants, too! Especially the Pitago's!

I have my recently aquired CG, and now, two very small pups. My first banana was an Orinoco. Normal for these parts.

I am anxiously awaiting the first bloom of my CG!

__________________
-Anna Banana -

Living my life in MMORPG's

JoeReal

Jeffrey, if you can come over to our place, you can dig up a pup of CG for free! I've been offering all my CG pups for free! Never have charged anyone nor will charge anyone if they come up and dig them up. However, the line right now is 3 years long. When their time has come, I email them, and if they show up, they can get the pup for free.

To tell you frankly, in order to break even, considering how my time is worth, I would be charging more than $300 for each pup that I dig. So I never sell my banana pups on eBay nor anywhere else. So I always delight in even exchange.

At times, I have given away to some colleagues and friends in this forum, just a token of a price some other pups for $1 each, definitely not enough to pay for gas to the trip to the post office. Others I simply don't have the time to cash their checks that are refund for just the postage. Why I do it, sometimes, I just want to make people happy by hoping to share the passion. It is not money that will make you happy in this very short life here on earth.

No I am not a rich man. Just passionate about this hobby. I have grown CG and orinocos side by side, literally, and it doesn't take a specially talented detective to see that there are obvious glaring differences between the two, from the plant leaf patterns to fruits, their ripening and their tastes, assuming that you have the genuine articles of each cultivar. Well, if you happen to have two orinocos being compared with just the difference in label, you are 100% correct in your own wisdom. I have posted several times the major differences between CG and dwarf Orinoco all over other forums and would hate to spoon feed the same information again.

I have no intention of supporting Jeff and others in their claims about CG, but just stating my keen observations. I give them away for free, so absolutely, I have no intentions of enriching myself, just wanting to share for free what I found. And yes, I hate profit making companies and do love open source style of way of life, that is why I give away all my CG pups for free.

Regards,

Joe

JoeReal

BTW, with most bananas that I got, mislabeling have been a rampant problem, and it could happen to anyone, it happened to me, 25% of the time, and perhaps especially Jeffrey, in his quest for CG but got O instead...

Most mislabeling may not have really been intentional, especially when you have thousands of plants zipping by in tissue culture industries.

jeffreyp

If you want to compare sizes of plants, I think you didn't realize that orinoco has a dwarf form and large form. For you to say CG grows 5-6' and orinoco grows to 10' isn't a true statement. The orinoco dwarf form grows to - wow the same height as cg...hmm makes you wonder..

Bananas can grow stronger and healthier if they are planted in better soil and have better sun exposure. I can take some pictures of KRU bananas in my yard that are grown in cramped conditions and some that are planted out in the open in well fertilized soil. I can attest that bananas grown in poor soil, or otherwise poor growing conditions will taste (at some level) different than those in ideal growing conditions. I am sure that an orinoco (dwarf or tall form) would produce fruit of lessor quality if grown in poor conditions as well.

Like I said before, CG is an orinoco...

jeffreyp

Hi Zac,

Here's the transcript (and some pics) from the show..

http://www.goodeatsfanpage.com/Seaso.../topbanana.htm


I have been growing banana plants for over 20 years, and I think I have learned a couple things about bananas/plantains along the way..

20 years of growing bananas down here in zone 10 south florida is like 40 years of growing bananas up north. I used to go scuba diving with a friend from up north. He said he had 20 years of experience scuba diving, but the extent of his diving was maybe 5-10 trips during the summer. Diving down here is an all year type of thing, where one can obtain ALOT of experience. I probably dive 20+ times a year down here. The point I am getting at is experience is all relative.

jeffreyp

Joe I wasn't talking about you...I was referring to the guys on ebay selling them as if they are some unique banana species. Orinoco has been grown in California forever. I have several orinoco types in my yard - dwarf, tall orinoco, monthan, & bluggoe.. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

mikevan

There is a little something called being specific. Dwarf Orinoco != Orinoco when discussing differences of variety and form to people who collect bananas. I have both. To me, they're different nanners. If a person means dwarf orinoco, I expect them to say, "dwarf orinoco". If I want to buy an orinoco, I do not expect to receive a dwarf, for instance. Communication - it's a challenge but worth mastering.

Do you grow the CG too? Have you taken the time and effort to compare them for yourself? If so, why did you not present this as a critique rather than jumping on board and very shortly and rudely slamming someone with no display of evidence? If not, why do you think you're an authority on what the CG is or is not? It is far easier to believe a person if he/she were to come on board and display their opinion backed by their experiences with something than just to basically dash in and tell everyone they're being duped and scammed.

Be aware tho - I don't grow CG. However, I recognize the sporting tendancy of bananas, even among "clones". You're making a claim and at first fairly rudely so, without anything to substantiate it. Not a good way to convince people...

I think the biggest problem is not your skeptisism which, in this world, is a healthy thing, but rather it's the rude way it was displayed. Questioning a source is no problem at all - no one should go into something blind. But coming out of the blue and saying "I think it's total outright BS. California gold is just an ORINOCO. Don't be duped." perhaps was not the best approach, especially in a forum of respected growers who indeed are growing CG and now feel that you're calling them gullable and "duped".

Now, as to what the banana is or is not, Jeff himself has mentioned that he has little information on the genetic source of this particular plant - it was pretty much a mystery nanner when he first got it. He noted properties in it that he found desireable - a higher level of hardiness - that he now shares with others - and is by no means getting rich on it. JoeReal has grown both and himself noted that CG is hardier than both orinoco and dwarf orinoco (not to mention morphologically different). So - what if it is a sport of an orinoco? What's the problem with that? Within varieties of bananas there are genetic changes happening all the time. Momoese has a nanner that may be developing variegation. If Jeff has found what turns out to be a hardier orinoco from the regular orinoco, what problem do you see that he sells it? Most of the nanners we grow are fairly closely related and are sports. After all, dwarf is a short version and being sold seperately because, well, it's shorter - yet you yourself still call the dwarf by it's regular name unless prompted to specify. All in all - no one knows exactly where CG came from, and no one will know for certain the genetic lineage until someone puts forward the money for tests. That said, this is a nanner - Orinoco, Saba, whatever - that's seemingly gained a higher level of hardiness, as evidenced by not only Jeff, but many other growers too. If you have done some tests and have information to illuminate this sport in relation to what you feel to be it's twin - the Orinoco - sharing those results would be a nice way to discuss your skeptisism, methinks.

Be well,
Mike

mikevan

Er, is that Jeff of CG fame, or Jeffrey who disputes CG? All these Jeff's are confusing the Dicken's out of me! Tho Alton is still my hero and I drool over Rachel Ray.

Cheers,
Mike

Zac in NC

Mike- The Jeff I was referring to is jeffreyp ( Jeffrey Picazio). I will also say I have no opinion one way or the other on this debate. I don't grow any orinoco( dwarf or otherwise) or Cali Gold......Yet.

Zac

mikevan

Well, despite his... abrupt... entry into this forum, I still think that is way cool, all differences in opinion aside!

Be well,
Mike