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Old 12-20-2007, 11:05 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Default Re: Glow in the dark Banana

the food and drug admin in the us doesnt care if it is safe for consmption. they ok drugs for the public just to pull them off the shelf after 5 yrs. because they are killing people. they tell you that splenda is a great sugar subistitutefor diabetics, and people with glocuos poblems. it is made from sugar so it taste like sugar. what they are not telling people is that, when you eat or drink certian quanities of these 'wonderful' products, is that this spefic product, is causing serious problems with peoples frontal lobes in the brain. it eats holes in the brain. just like a computer virius. carbnated beverages in aluminum cans...the carbonated gases in the soda, messes with the molecutor structor of the aluminum. when this happens it breaks the metal down and you injest it. they are thinking alheizmers is from this. the metal goes to the brain from the blood stream and it lodges there. the electrical currents in the brain are stopped at this metal,causing damage,and causing the electric current to 'bypass' this area of the brain.when this happns this part of the brain"dies". i dont care how many rats they test this crap on, they do this with no moral reprehension and they do it for the money. they are killing us off slowly. i went to the dr. today and they told me i was way past time for a tetnus shot. i ABSOLUTELY refuse to have this. they dont tell you that in these shots are full of heavy metals, and 'dead' virius' that there again, lodge in the brain causing damage to the frontal lobes. do i want a fu shot...not gonna happen, they are not going to intentionally infect me with a "dead" virius, that when it come into contact with live human tissue comes alive again. if i would have know what they put in my kids vaccanations, i would have told them to give them the "the other vaccanations" which are 100% natural dirivitaves from tropical plants.many peole dont know about these natural vaccanations, they keep them VERY quiet. so you do have a choice. you have to educate yourselves on everything our gov. says is ok..their not loking out for you ,their looking out for their own wallets. i just get a little ill when people TELL me what i have to do and i know its not the right thing especially for my family. sorry guys this is just something i feel real strongly about.
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Old 12-20-2007, 11:16 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Default Re: Glow in the dark Banana

"We at Mindfully.org consider all genetic engineering—plant, animal, or pharmaceutical—unsafe"

http://www.mindfully.org/GE/2005/ge-2005.htm

Interesting article! Check this one out too:

http://gmopundit.blogspot.com/2007/1...kovas-rat.html

One must always consider the source...
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Old 12-20-2007, 11:20 PM   #43 (permalink)
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True, but this study was only reported by them like many others have been. The real "source" is the study itself, not the messenger.
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Old 12-20-2007, 11:35 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Default Re: Glow in the dark Banana

i am glad to see that i am not the only person here who has problems with the stuff the gov. is trying to shove down our throats. bigdog is there any requirments to joining the site? please let me know i have a few friends (myself) included who would be interested. thanks.
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Old 12-21-2007, 05:31 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Default Re: Glow in the dark Banana

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Originally Posted by mskitty38583 View Post
bigdog is there any requirments to joining the site? please let me know i have a few friends (myself) included who would be interested. thanks.
I'm not sure what site you're talking about?? I was just quoting a line from mindfully.org.

It's imperative that the studies being referenced are unbiased, peer-reviewed papers published in a scientific journal in order for them to have credibility. I did a Metasearch for the author using UT Libraries, and couldn't find any reference to this article in any journal or publication.

Personally, I'm glad they test on rats first. Better them than testing on humans! That's going to upset a few folks, I'm sure, but before you lash out at me, do you have any better suggestions? I'm an open-minded person.
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Old 12-21-2007, 06:07 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Default Re: Glow in the dark Banana

the point i was trying to make is i dont care how many rats they test it on, im not gonna do it, use it, or eat it. and it is good that they test it,but if they dont want you to know the truth, your not gonna know till its tooooooo late. im sorry about the mix up with the quote. i went to the site and read up on it. boy oh boy.. makes you think dont it?
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Old 12-24-2007, 12:14 AM   #47 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Glow in the dark Banana

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i know, i know.i just am totally against this type of engineering. i really believe it is wrong.my personal opinion. thats why im trying to get a garden patch together. that way i know where my food comes from and whats in it, the mennonites here in sparta refuse to do any of this, so i will start buying my meat there. i do not agree with cloneing , i do not agree with genetically engineering of food for anytype of consumption. i believe it is moraly wrong. i have serious issues with this type of science.


Sooo, are you planning to get rid of your HCM ? I know that many members here have no qualm with the accomplishments of our scientific community and would gladly take them off your hands .
I do believe in being environmentally conscious but a sustainable and realistic approach will involve these types of sciences . I'm sure that even when people first began to experiment with cross pollination it was viewed as the work of dark forces . If we had turned our backs on this mixing of genetic material we would have most likely seen detrimental crop failures on a global scale many times over the last 50 years or so . Or,at least , insufficient yields .
The plants that you place in your garden patch will ,more than likely, be mutants of one form or another and will certainly not contain the exact genetic code of thier wild predecessors.
Don't get me wrong , I don't advocate the bizzare (ie....personal genetic enhancements,pet fish with legs....),especially on the consumer level . I'm just pointing out the fact that without these studies we (humankind) could be denying betterment for ourselves .
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Old 12-24-2007, 01:02 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Thank you Pete!
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Old 12-24-2007, 01:38 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Default Re: Glow in the dark Banana

[quote]
Quote:
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The plants that you place in your garden patch will ,more than likely, be mutants of one form or another and will certainly not contain the exact genetic code of thier wild predecessors.
I think you are right about this. When I buy my vegetable seed packets every year most of them are hybrid and isn't that the same with most rose bushes on the market? We raise most of the meat we eat and when we get good enough at gardening our goal is to be self sustaining with that too but our reason behind that is to know what the animals ate and that they lived a happy life while they were alive and we don't have to worry about recalled meat and vegetables. I guess I haven't thought too much about right or wrong when it comes to genetically altered seeds and plants as I believe science has come a long ways in benifiting mankind. I certainly don't agree with weird genetic tampering. As for cloning though... isn't a tissue cultured pup basically a cloned banana plant? I'm very ignorant with all this and just so happens I was just reading about what tissue culture was and how alot of banana plants are done this way.
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Old 12-24-2007, 01:50 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Default Re: Glow in the dark Banana

[quote=CookieCows;25242]
Quote:

As for cloning though... isn't a tissue cultured pup basically a cloned banana plant? I'm very ignorant with all this and just so happens I was just reading about what tissue culture was and how alot of banana plants are done this way.
Yup you are right CC,... that is why we are wondering why anyone who is apparently against pretty much anything mildly scientific would support tissue culture

I think you'll be hard pressed to find someone on this site who advocates the genetic modification of life to create bizarre and possibly dangerous animals/plants/whatever, but the creation of hardy disease resistant plants is necessary to sustain human life at this point.
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Old 12-24-2007, 10:25 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Default Re: Glow in the dark Banana

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but the creation of hardy disease resistant plants is necessary to sustain human life at this point.

Is there a study that proves this? I seem to do just fine with heirloom seeds.

Also let's be clear, there is a huge difference in GMO and Hybrid plants. Cross pollinating is going to happen in the wild, inserting an octopus gene in a Tomato would never happen naturally.
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Old 12-24-2007, 11:30 AM   #52 (permalink)
 
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I think you'll be hard pressed to find someone on this site who advocates the genetic modification of life to create bizarre and possibly dangerous animals/plants/whatever,
That was the first part of that quote .

While cross pollination does happen in the wild it is the selective pollination and isolation of desired traits that makes the difference .
The only reason that cross pollination was even brought up was to illustrate the benefits of looking forward .

Be sure of your heirloom seed sources , monsanto has purchased the patents for many heirloom varieties .
We have had the same corn for many years ,saving seed each year , and our corn has slowly become something entirely different . It looks different , taste different ,.......this is probably due to cross pollination with gm plants that others (farmers and home gardeners) have planted locally. The plants are far more robust but the germination rate of our seed has dropped tremendously.
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Old 12-24-2007, 03:40 PM   #53 (permalink)
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When I left my native country the population was 22 million , now it is 92 million. There were a lot of people were starving then due to pest and other calamities but because of these engineered stuff and discoveries by agriculture scientists to create new varieties specially the rice varieties in particular, the government and the people were able to feed the new generation. The discoveries of new plants and introducing new crops and even animals and new fishes in the country, the government were able to feed the new people.
So when I see on the TV the progress that has been made by the new discoveries and improvements, I smile to myself and thank the Lord .
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Old 12-24-2007, 05:33 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Default Re: Glow in the dark Banana

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Is there a study that proves this? I seem to do just fine with heirloom seeds.

Also let's be clear, there is a huge difference in GMO and Hybrid plants. Cross pollinating is going to happen in the wild, inserting an octopus gene in a Tomato would never happen naturally.
Remember Norman Borlaug? He basically started The Green Revolution by coming up with new varieties of wheat to try and solve the world's hunger problems. The population of the world is increasing exponentially every day, and so is the problem of feeding it. We have to continue to find new ways of growing and improving plants in order to meet the demands! Farming practices 60 years ago would not come close to producing the volumes of food that are produced today, and that can be attributed to science and innovation by people like Borlaug. Here's part of an excerpt from an interview with Borlaug recently:

Borlaug: Biotechnology will help these countries accomplish things that they could never do with conventional plant breeding. The technology is more precise and farming becomes less time consuming. The public needs to be better informed about the importance of biotechnology in food production so it won't be so critical.
...
While biotechnology holds much promise in food production, we cannot ignore conventional plant breeding methods since these methods continue to be important. In the last century, conventional breeding produced higher yields and will continue to do so in this century.
...
There is a report by scientists at University of California at Berkeley who analyzed foods, including some that humans have eaten since the dawn of agriculture. The report shows that there are natural foods that contain trace amounts of natural chemicals that are toxic or carcinogenic. These foods don't seem to harm us.
...
If you're a theoretical scientist, you can philosophize about this but I've been in the field for a long time and I believe genetically modified food crops will stop world hunger. I recognize the value of crops created by traditional plant breeding but I also see the viability of crops that carry an herbicide-resistant gene or whatever gene is incorporated by biotechnology.


http://www.actionbioscience.org/biotech/borlaug.html

These words coming from the man that gave us the wheat that we eat today, from conventional breeding. Of course, that was over 60 years ago, when genetic engineering was unheard of. There are plenty of examples of foods that have been bred by conventional means that have proven to be highly toxic and harmful to man:

1. Celery (USA, ~1985) - caused serious skin rash through psoralens + sunlight.
2. Squash (USA, 1982) - Cucurbitacin poisoning.
3. Zucchini (Australia, 1982) - Cucurbitacin poisoning (22 people hospitalized).
4. Potato (USA, 1967 cv. Lenape) - toxic alkaloids.

And lets not forget all of the organically-grown spinach that came in a bag with E. coli just recently. My point is that conventionally bred crops can have problems also. It isn't just the GMO crops that have potential problems associated with them. When Norman Borlaug himself is advocating the use of biotechnology to stop world hunger, maybe we should listen. Without the Green Revolution that he started, who knows where we would be today.
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Old 12-24-2007, 10:57 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Someone , I can't remember who without googling it once said that the human race is but a rash on the face of the earth and that it's constantly trying to rid us.

I agree with statement.

If we truly need GMO food to feed the population then I believe there are just too many people here.

And boy did I know that someday someone would bring up the spinach! I told my wife when it first happened, "you just wait, some GMO advocate or GMO company is going to use the fear card to scare people away from organic produce" You proved me right! Are you aware how it became tainted? From possibly negligent land owners leasing their land to beef farmers who also had pigs that may have contaminated the irrigation water system. That could have affected any crop, Organic or GMO.

The human race has survived on organic heirloom produce for how long, a 160,000 years or so, and now your going to bash it? Good luck with that!

You know, if GMO's had been properly tested for even just a couple hundred years or so with no long term side effects on "humans" I wouldn't have a problem with it, but it hasn't been and Monsanto and the others can't be trusted even if they were to "test" it. Good old common sense says that their main goal, like almost any other huge corp is the bottom line and nothing will stop them from trying to achieving that.

You can argue for them until your blue in the face but the fact is that no one knows if GMO products (man that sounds gross!) are safe in the long term for humans to consume and we won't know in our lifetime. Who knows what they are working on now, maybe a tomato that makes you want to buy a new automobile or a fancy new TV? Ok I'm being a little sarcastic but the point is that we really, really have no clue what that stuff will do to us long term and the government will always side with the ones who line their pockets, not you and me, the small change and small voice people with families to feed.

Disclaimer: some of the above was my opinion and not meant to hurt anyones feelings.

Merry Christmas and may the power of organic be with you!
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Old 12-24-2007, 11:22 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Default Re: Glow in the dark Banana

I think both Frank and Mitchel's posts have very good info... no feelings hurt here ... I try not to lean too far right or left with either organic or GMO... because personally I think both have good and bad traits. (playin' up a bit for GMO since there didn't seem to be much hardcore debating going on)

Good posts all around.
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Old 12-24-2007, 11:47 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Default Re: Glow in the dark Banana

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If we truly need GMO food to feed the population then I believe there are just too many people here.
I agree with that. There are way too many people on this earth, but that's another problem in itself.
Quote:
And boy did I know that someday someone would bring up the spinach! I told my wife when it first happened, "you just wait, some GMO advocate or GMO company is going to use the fear card to scare people away from organic produce" You proved me right! Are you aware how it became tainted? From possibly negligent land owners leasing their land to beef farmers who also had pigs that may have contaminated the irrigation water system. That could have affected any crop, Organic or GMO.
I in no way even insinuated that I was trying to scare anybody away from organic produce. I'm all for it! But the rest of your statements prove my point: There is negligence everywhere, my friend. Everywhere.
Quote:
The human race has survived on organic heirloom produce for how long, a 160,000 years or so, and now your going to bash it? Good luck with that!
Mitchell...please reread my post. I didn't bash organic heirloom produce in any way. I was merely pointing out, from real-world examples, that there can be problems with any crop.
Quote:
You know, if GMO's had been properly tested for even just a couple hundred years or so with no long term side effects on "humans" I wouldn't have a problem with it, but it hasn't been and Monsanto and the others can't be trusted even if they were to "test" it. Good old common sense says that their main goal, like almost any other huge corp is the bottom line and nothing will stop them from trying to achieving that.
We don't have a couple hundred years. But you're right about the bottom line. Any company, large or 2 employees, keeps their eye on the bottom line. It wouldn't be a business if they didn't. Businesses main goal is to make a profit. Nothing new there.
Quote:
You can argue for them until your blue in the face but the fact is that no one knows if GMO products (man that sounds gross!) are safe in the long term for humans to consume and we won't know in our lifetime. Who knows what they are working on now, maybe a tomato that makes you want to buy a new automobile or a fancy new TV? Ok I'm being a little sarcastic but the point is that we really, really have no clue what that stuff will do to us long term and the government will always side with the ones who line their pockets, not you and me, the small change and small voice people with families to feed.
Who's blue in the face?
Quote:
Disclaimer: some of the above was my opinion and not meant to hurt anyones feelings.
No feelings hurt here. You do tend to get a bit personal on this subject, but that is because you're passionate about it, and that's fine. Passion sometimes tends to block other things out though, like logic and common sense. We have to look at the options for the future. And clear-headed people should be making those decisions. That's not to say that they always do, lol! I agree with Borlaug, it will take a balance of conventional breeding and GMO technology to keep up with world hunger.
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Old 12-25-2007, 12:55 AM   #58 (permalink)
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Default Re: Glow in the dark Banana

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Passion sometimes tends to block other things out though, like logic and common sense.
Common sense says that we have survived on heirloom organics forever (exaggeration, almost forever) and that GMO's are untested and quite possibly unsafe. Common sense also says that the GMO manufacturers are nothing more than greedy corporations.

That's not some "passionate speak", it's just "clear headed" common sense!

So how do you feel about organic farmers crops being polluted with GMO contamination and then being sued for growing "patented crops"?
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Old 12-25-2007, 05:12 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Default Re: Glow in the dark Banana

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Common sense says that we have survived on heirloom organics forever (exaggeration, almost forever) and that GMO's are untested and quite possibly unsafe. Common sense also says that the GMO manufacturers are nothing more than greedy corporations.

That's not some "passionate speak", it's just "clear headed" common sense!

So how do you feel about organic farmers crops being polluted with GMO contamination and then being sued for growing "patented crops"?
Sure, GMO's are possibly unsafe, but haven't proved to be yet. The next head of broccoli, bred by conventional means, that I buy could be unsafe too. I think some folks actually WANT them to be unsafe, but I can't really for the life of me figure that one out. Here's a statistic: over 46 trillion transgenic plants have been grown for food or feed in North America since 1994, and no problems have been reported.

I bet you can't name one large corporation, GMO or otherwise, that you don't see as greedy, am I right? They are all in it for the money, of course!! Otherwise they wouldn't exist at all. It's called Capitalism. Their main goal is to make as much profit as they can. It's when they cut corners and do illegal things to get that profit that is despicable, and should be punished accordingly. I'm well aware that some large corporations will still try to do this, but it isn't as easy as it once was, especially with SOX 2002. But...does this make GMO's the bad guy just because of some corporation's potential wrong-doings, or is the corporation the bad guy? You can insert ANY industry into this conversation, and it would be the same. The science, if applied properly, is good.

Obviously, the last scenario you mentioned is absurd. That is, it is absurd for the farmers to get sued because of GMO cross-pollination. If they are so concerned about their genes escaping, they need to ensure that they don't, and not try to punish some innocent farmer.

Merry Christmas!
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Old 12-26-2007, 02:13 PM   #60 (permalink)
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While I think it's true that corporations are only concerned about the bottom line, some of them are better for the environment than others, and I don't view any GMO producing corps in that light.

I think it's really irresponsible to release anything that's untested which is exactly what they have done. As a matter of fact I think it's criminal and they should be prosecuted. They have created a mess that can't be reversed. Some people are allergic to peanuts for example, and with the known cross pollination it's just a matter of time before the gene finds it way into something it's not supposed to be in. Then you have weeds that can be cross pollinated by herbicide resistant genes making super weeds that will so invasive we may not have a way to stop them. GMO's are not tested! They should not be sold to the public and especially not to an unsuspecting and deliberately uninformed public!

Now these dip sh$ts want to let loose bio insects. Holy crap! What do they think is going to happen to the fish and birds etc that eat them and to their predators? What's that you say, you don't know? Exactly, no one does and that's why none of this GMO crap should be sold or produced in way that it can't be controlled.
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