Fruiting height

Sarah Brubacker · 08-13-2018, 05:47 PM

I dont know if there is any way you can tell how close a banana is to flowering? this Iholena (was marked that) is a little taller then 6 foot and I am wandering if it will fruit in time before winter, not sure what I'll do if it fruits. (Or if it doesn't) Haven't really noticed the pstem getting thick like the Cavendish does. But was wandering what height these might fruit at in general (if its an Iholena)

I still have not figured out how to make that the pictures show.

Banana Gallery - Iholena

edwmax · 08-13-2018, 07:29 PM

I haven't grown the Iholena, so I can't tell you and I don't find that info in reference to the Iholena. However, your picture does not match that of an Iholena or its variances. The pstem should have some streaks of purple and pink; and the cigar & young leafs should have a bronze tint on the underside. ... I don't see any of those in your picture. I think you may have an Orinoco there.

Ref:

Musa Iholena - Bananas Wiki
Iholena subgroup | ProMusa - the banana knowledge platform

Pictures: https://www.crop-diversity.org/mgis/...n/01BEL0841174

Richard · 08-13-2018, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarah Brubacker

... this Iholena (was marked that) is a little taller then 6 foot ...

Out here in southern-most California (coastal San Diego) we see Iholena fruiting at 8-10 foot pstem height.

Sarah Brubacker · 08-14-2018, 05:54 AM

[quote]The pstem should have some streaks of purple and pink; and the cigar & young leafs should have a bronze tint on the underside.

I have not noticed any pink on the pstem but the new leaves definitely have bronze tint, the picture is kinda hard to see, I am not saying it is a Iholena but it would have that trait.

Thanks Richard! As I feared I still have a few more feet to go, (if ive got an Iholena)ut they are amazing fast growers i put 2 footer into the ground May 15 and it is basically the same size as the one on this banana.

Banana Gallery - Bronze tint

beam2050 · 08-14-2018, 07:01 AM

[quote=Sarah Brubacker;317486]

Quote:

The pstem should have some streaks of purple and pink; and the cigar & young leafs should have a bronze tint on the underside.

I have not noticed any pink on the pstem but the new leaves definitely have bronze tint, the picture is kinda hard to see, I am not saying it is a Iholena but it would have that trait.

Thanks Richard! As I feared I still have a few more feet to go, (if ive got an Iholena)ut they are amazing fast growers i put 2 footer into the ground May 15 and it is basically the same size as the one on this banana.

Banana Gallery - Bronze tint

thanks. I have a iholena tc I bought from baker creek that has the brownish/bronze tint. I thought the brown tint on the cigar leaf was a bit of sunburn. poor thing had a bad start this year. black grasshoppers nearly razed her to the ground when I was off for a week. had another one beside that did not come back. shame. but she is pupping.

the bronze tint might depend on which variety of iholena? and the red tint might show when they get bigger?

edwmax · 08-15-2018, 07:08 AM

[quote=Sarah Brubacker;317486]

Quote:

The pstem should have some streaks of purple and pink; and the cigar & young leafs should have a bronze tint on the underside.

I have not noticed any pink on the pstem but the new leaves definitely have bronze tint, the picture is kinda hard to see, I am not saying it is a Iholena but it would have that trait.

Thanks Richard! As I feared I still have a few more feet to go, (if ive got an Iholena)ut they are amazing fast growers i put 2 footer into the ground May 15 and it is basically the same size as the one on this banana.

Banana Gallery - Bronze tint

I believe the picture is showing the topside of the leaf. The tint should be on the backside and normally fades away after a few weeks. Also. the leaf edge should have a pinkish/reddish color that continues down the ~~pedoite~~ petiole erect margin to the pstem. ... The leaf topside should be a lighter (pale) green.

Sarah Brubacker · 08-15-2018, 09:59 AM

I am not trying to say it is a Iholena but this picture was the underside of the leaf, i can go take a clear picture if you'd want to see it and I did see some light pink streaks on the pstem of some of the half grown pups (its sister)

edwmax · 08-15-2018, 10:55 AM

No need. I was looking at the large leaf in the middle and the two smaller leaves above and to the right. ... I hope you do have a iholena. ... Is the petiole canal open or closed?

edwmax · 08-15-2018, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarah Brubacker

I dont know if there is any way you can tell how close a banana is to flowering? this Iholena (was marked that) is a little taller then 6 foot and I am wandering if it will fruit in time before winter, not sure what I'll do if it fruits. (Or if it doesn't) Haven't really noticed the pstem getting thick like the Cavendish does. But was wandering what height these might fruit at in general (if its an Iholena)

I still have not figured out how to make that the pictures show.

Banana Gallery - Iholena

Common to most all Bananas is that the leaf spacing will get noticeably closer & stacked when the pstem is at its proper height. Some other member call it the 'crown'. (Took me a bit to figure out what was meant by the crown.) ... The pstam base will then get thicker & bulging causing the outer leaf sheaf's to pull away from the pstem. These are the first signs that a flower is on it's way.

I had about 10 nana's last fall that showed all the signs, but no flag, when they froze to the ground.

Sarah Brubacker · 08-15-2018, 12:31 PM

I am not sure how to tell if they are open or closed? Had seen a post how to tell but couldn't find it fast. This was a young plant so don't know if it is different then the old ones, the tall one was to high to take s picture but did look more open than this one.

Banana Gallery - Iholena

Have you ever dug up a banana with fruit or right before fruiting? Just curious because I plan to basically dig up all the ones that are planted outside.
Thanks

edwmax · 08-15-2018, 01:46 PM

Open pediote channel is like a 'U'; closed channel is 'O'. Then there are the 'wings'; which are the thin edge of the channel. They stand up or lay out flat.

The iholena channel is open with the wings standing and slight red edge.. The Orinoce channel is closed.

I don't dig up my plant for dry root storage, so I can't help with that question. May be someone else will.

BekNazar · 08-15-2018, 02:51 PM

Sarah,

I checked your pic and those are open petioles.
I have one of these too. AgriStart has them listed so they are probably the same clones.
I checked Lessard's book and he writes about the dwarf Iholena (Haa Haa):

"The Haa Haa grows to six to seven feet. It has a faint hint of burgundy color beneath the leaf and a definite line on only one margin of the bottom of each leaf."

Mine is hitting 6 feet now and pumped out a bunch of pups in the last few months (none before). This is my first Iholena too.
I'm hoping to see my bananas emerge as yellow and ripen to orange on this one soon!

Lessard also wrote that they are not cold hardy. Mine did survive our 2 deep freezes we got here in Pasco Co FL this year.

Todd

Sarah Brubacker · 08-16-2018, 05:22 AM

Thanks edwmax for explaining the difference.

Thanks Todd for checking, I sure hope to get fruit as well this year than it might be able to be identified for sure.

Botanical_Bryce · 08-16-2018, 09:24 AM

Visual descriptions are going to make a much greater impact. Here are 3 varieties showing the petioles closed, partially open, and open which is the description for each of these varieties from the USDA website. IMO partially open is just as good as open.

robguz24 · 08-17-2018, 07:40 PM

Ha'a Ha'a is extinct as far as I know.

Tytaylor77 · 08-18-2018, 02:54 AM

Rob is correct these are not Musa Haa Haa. These are Musa Iholena iholena. Aka dwarf white iholena. I have 3 from all 3 sources. So far they grow way slower than I had hoped. By the looks of my plants, I’m thinking they will fruit around 9-10’

Sarah.... so far yours looks like a possible dwarf iholena.

Sarah Brubacker · 08-18-2018, 03:01 PM

I sure hope to get fruit this year and then maybe it can be identified for sure, the mom plant is 7+ feet haven't measured it, its in a pot so it looks really really tall. I'll post pictures if i ever get fruit.

Sarah Brubacker · 09-18-2018, 07:43 PM

I am pretty sure this is the pre flag leaf!
Its somewhere around 9 or 10 feet tall.

http:// Banana Gallery - Pre flag leaf Iholena?

Sarah Brubacker · 10-04-2018, 10:23 AM

The flower is slowly coming out (this picture is a few days old already) we had 43˚ a week or two ago so that probably really knocked it back. Can't wait till the flower opens and I can get it identified.

I've got time right now so I'm experimenting how to make my photos show up instead of a link.

[IMG]

[/IMG]

Sarah Brubacker · 10-04-2018, 07:48 PM

This picture was taken this afternoon.
I'm now experimenting on the computer.
and it worked!

[IMG]

[/IMG]

08-13-2018, 05:47 PM	#1 (permalink)
Sarah Brubacker Location: Wentworth MO Find me on the map! Zone: 6b Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 184 BananaBucks : 26,775 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 63 Times Was Thanked 413 Times in 104 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 389 Times	Fruiting height I dont know if there is any way you can tell how close a banana is to flowering? this Iholena (was marked that) is a little taller then 6 foot and I am wandering if it will fruit in time before winter, not sure what I'll do if it fruits. (Or if it doesn't) Haven't really noticed the pstem getting thick like the Cavendish does. But was wandering what height these might fruit at in general (if its an Iholena) I still have not figured out how to make that the pictures show. Banana Gallery - Iholena

08-13-2018, 07:29 PM	#2 (permalink)
edwmax Location: Cairo, Ga Find me on the map! Zone: 8b Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 2,891 BananaBucks : 108,880 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 1,740 Times Was Thanked 4,437 Times in 2,093 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 414 Times	Re: Fruiting height I haven't grown the Iholena, so I can't tell you and I don't find that info in reference to the Iholena. However, your picture does not match that of an Iholena or its variances. The pstem should have some streaks of purple and pink; and the cigar & young leafs should have a bronze tint on the underside. ... I don't see any of those in your picture. I think you may have an Orinoco there. Ref: Musa Iholena - Bananas Wiki Iholena subgroup \| ProMusa - the banana knowledge platform Pictures: https://www.crop-diversity.org/mgis/...n/01BEL0841174 __________________

08-14-2018, 05:54 AM	#4 (permalink)
Sarah Brubacker Location: Wentworth MO Find me on the map! Zone: 6b Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 184 BananaBucks : 26,775 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 63 Times Was Thanked 413 Times in 104 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 389 Times	Re: Fruiting height [quote]The pstem should have some streaks of purple and pink; and the cigar & young leafs should have a bronze tint on the underside. I have not noticed any pink on the pstem but the new leaves definitely have bronze tint, the picture is kinda hard to see, I am not saying it is a Iholena but it would have that trait. Thanks Richard! As I feared I still have a few more feet to go, (if ive got an Iholena)ut they are amazing fast growers i put 2 footer into the ground May 15 and it is basically the same size as the one on this banana. Banana Gallery - Bronze tint

08-15-2018, 09:59 AM	#7 (permalink)
Sarah Brubacker Location: Wentworth MO Find me on the map! Zone: 6b Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 184 BananaBucks : 26,775 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 63 Times Was Thanked 413 Times in 104 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 389 Times	Re: Fruiting height I am not trying to say it is a Iholena but this picture was the underside of the leaf, i can go take a clear picture if you'd want to see it and I did see some light pink streaks on the pstem of some of the half grown pups (its sister)

08-15-2018, 10:55 AM	#8 (permalink)
edwmax Location: Cairo, Ga Find me on the map! Zone: 8b Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 2,891 BananaBucks : 108,880 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 1,740 Times Was Thanked 4,437 Times in 2,093 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 414 Times	Re: Fruiting height No need. I was looking at the large leaf in the middle and the two smaller leaves above and to the right. ... I hope you do have a iholena. ... Is the petiole canal open or closed? __________________

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08-15-2018, 12:31 PM	#10 (permalink)
Sarah Brubacker Location: Wentworth MO Find me on the map! Zone: 6b Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 184 BananaBucks : 26,775 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 63 Times Was Thanked 413 Times in 104 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 389 Times	Re: Fruiting height I am not sure how to tell if they are open or closed? Had seen a post how to tell but couldn't find it fast. This was a young plant so don't know if it is different then the old ones, the tall one was to high to take s picture but did look more open than this one. Banana Gallery - Iholena Have you ever dug up a banana with fruit or right before fruiting? Just curious because I plan to basically dig up all the ones that are planted outside. Thanks

08-15-2018, 01:46 PM	#11 (permalink)
edwmax Location: Cairo, Ga Find me on the map! Zone: 8b Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 2,891 BananaBucks : 108,880 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 1,740 Times Was Thanked 4,437 Times in 2,093 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 414 Times	Re: Fruiting height Open pediote channel is like a 'U'; closed channel is 'O'. Then there are the 'wings'; which are the thin edge of the channel. They stand up or lay out flat. The iholena channel is open with the wings standing and slight red edge.. The Orinoce channel is closed. I don't dig up my plant for dry root storage, so I can't help with that question. May be someone else will. __________________

08-15-2018, 02:51 PM	#12 (permalink)
BekNazar Location: Darby, FL Zone: 9b Name: Todd Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 6 BananaBucks : 3,565 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 18 Times Was Thanked 14 Times in 4 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 4 Times	Re: Fruiting height Sarah, I checked your pic and those are open petioles. I have one of these too. AgriStart has them listed so they are probably the same clones. I checked Lessard's book and he writes about the dwarf Iholena (Haa Haa): "The Haa Haa grows to six to seven feet. It has a faint hint of burgundy color beneath the leaf and a definite line on only one margin of the bottom of each leaf." Mine is hitting 6 feet now and pumped out a bunch of pups in the last few months (none before). This is my first Iholena too. I'm hoping to see my bananas emerge as yellow and ripen to orange on this one soon! Lessard also wrote that they are not cold hardy. Mine did survive our 2 deep freezes we got here in Pasco Co FL this year. Todd

08-16-2018, 05:22 AM	#13 (permalink)
Sarah Brubacker Location: Wentworth MO Find me on the map! Zone: 6b Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 184 BananaBucks : 26,775 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 63 Times Was Thanked 413 Times in 104 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 389 Times	Re: Fruiting height Thanks edwmax for explaining the difference. Thanks Todd for checking, I sure hope to get fruit as well this year than it might be able to be identified for sure.

08-16-2018, 09:24 AM	#14 (permalink)
Botanical_Bryce Location: Inverness, Florida Zone: 9a Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 881 BananaBucks : 92,123 Feedback: 4 / 100% Said "Thanks" 7 Times Was Thanked 1,459 Times in 636 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Fruiting height Visual descriptions are going to make a much greater impact. Here are 3 varieties showing the petioles closed, partially open, and open which is the description for each of these varieties from the USDA website. IMO partially open is just as good as open.

08-17-2018, 07:40 PM	#15 (permalink)
robguz24 Rob Location: Kalapana, Hawaii Find me on the map! Zone: 11 Name: Rob Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,506 BananaBucks : 297,533 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 1,320 Times Was Thanked 4,961 Times in 1,080 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 204 Times	Re: Fruiting height Ha'a Ha'a is extinct as far as I know. __________________ My micro-farm Stay on my Big Island banana farm cottage

08-18-2018, 02:54 AM	#16 (permalink)
Tytaylor77 Banana Plants for Trade Location: East Texas Find me on the map! Zone: 8b Name: Ty Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 1,367 BananaBucks : 55,019 Feedback: 11 / 100% Said "Thanks" 4,608 Times Was Thanked 3,726 Times in 1,185 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 424 Times	Re: Fruiting height Rob is correct these are not Musa Haa Haa. These are Musa Iholena iholena. Aka dwarf white iholena. I have 3 from all 3 sources. So far they grow way slower than I had hoped. By the looks of my plants, I’m thinking they will fruit around 9-10’ Sarah.... so far yours looks like a possible dwarf iholena. __________________ 150+ Varieties!!. See profile for list. Help me add more! CLICK HERE TO SEE PICTURES OF MY MUSA COLLECTION! www.bananapups.com

08-18-2018, 03:01 PM	#17 (permalink)
Sarah Brubacker Location: Wentworth MO Find me on the map! Zone: 6b Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 184 BananaBucks : 26,775 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 63 Times Was Thanked 413 Times in 104 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 389 Times	Re: Fruiting height I sure hope to get fruit this year and then maybe it can be identified for sure, the mom plant is 7+ feet haven't measured it, its in a pot so it looks really really tall. I'll post pictures if i ever get fruit.

09-18-2018, 07:43 PM	#18 (permalink)
Sarah Brubacker Location: Wentworth MO Find me on the map! Zone: 6b Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 184 BananaBucks : 26,775 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 63 Times Was Thanked 413 Times in 104 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 389 Times	Re: Fruiting height I am pretty sure this is the pre flag leaf! Its somewhere around 9 or 10 feet tall. http:// Banana Gallery - Pre flag leaf Iholena? Last edited by Sarah Brubacker : 09-18-2018 at 07:49 PM.

10-04-2018, 10:23 AM	#19 (permalink)
Sarah Brubacker Location: Wentworth MO Find me on the map! Zone: 6b Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 184 BananaBucks : 26,775 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 63 Times Was Thanked 413 Times in 104 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 389 Times	Re: Fruiting height The flower is slowly coming out (this picture is a few days old already) we had 43˚ a week or two ago so that probably really knocked it back. Can't wait till the flower opens and I can get it identified. I've got time right now so I'm experimenting how to make my photos show up instead of a link. [IMG][/IMG] Last edited by Sarah Brubacker : 10-04-2018 at 07:52 PM.

10-04-2018, 07:48 PM	#20 (permalink)
Sarah Brubacker Location: Wentworth MO Find me on the map! Zone: 6b Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 184 BananaBucks : 26,775 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 63 Times Was Thanked 413 Times in 104 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 389 Times	Re: Fruiting height This picture was taken this afternoon. I'm now experimenting on the computer. and it worked! [IMG][/IMG]

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