Ensete maurelii in the heat

benbaron · 08-23-2016, 04:06 AM

Hi all,
Im chatting with a chap in Thailand that I sent some Tc'd ensete maurelii plugs to. They grow nice and healthy but have turned bright green, losing all the red colouration.
My initial thoughts were light intensity, so hes tried in full shade but same thing. What effects the red colour on them as in the UK poppin them in the shade causes more red - but that might just be the case of them being in a colder spot.....

Nerka1 · 08-23-2016, 05:22 PM

Sunlight=Red

benbaron · 08-24-2016, 03:09 AM

Sunlight = green in the UK, they work the opposite to musa. Less light more red. But - as stated the chap has had them in shade also..

Nate74 · 08-29-2016, 11:20 AM

Hmmm, mine are full sun sun and have a ton of red, west coast of Canada

jmoore · 08-29-2016, 11:42 AM

I've never seen that before, but I found this:

"A third pigment, or class of pigments, that occur in leaves are the anthocyanins. Anthocyanins absorb blue, blue-green, and green light. Therefore, the light reflected by leaves containing anthocyanins appears red. Unlike chlorophyll and carotene, anthocyanins are not attached to cell membranes, but are dissolved in the cell sap. The color produced by these pigments is sensitive to the pH of the cell sap. If the sap is quite acidic, the pigments impart a bright red color; if the sap is less acidic, its color is more purple. Anthocyanin pigments are responsible for the red skin of ripe apples and the purple of ripe grapes. Anthocyanins are formed by a reaction between sugars and certain proteins in cell sap. This reaction does not occur until the concentration of sugar in the sap is quite high. The reaction also requires light. This is why apples often appear red on one side and green on the other; the red side was in the sun and the green side was in shade." Chemical of the Week -- The Chemistry of Autumn Colors

Sun does make them more red. I suspect that as they are TC they haven't quite acclimatised as of yet, once they do they will start to produce the red colouration.

PS is that bark he has them in? Also is that slow release fertiliser? Can't be much in the way of nutrients in that. To produce the proteins required for the red colouration the plant needs nitrates. No nitrates = no red. Maybe they are deficient.

benbaron · 08-30-2016, 04:43 AM

Coco fibres, interesting posting regarding the pigments. I had a feeling it could have been due to ph myself - but I'll let him know - stick em in clay and see what happens.

cincinnana · 08-30-2016, 07:49 AM

Actually I see a couple of the challenges .... coco coir.....it might be holding too much water and it is too large a medium for that type of plant.
Great for orchids and other epiphytes though which do not have fine root structure.

Granlular fertilizer too much too soon.. perhaps use a weak water soluble fertilizer while the plants are that small and then introduce granlulars when they are much larger when you repot as they get larger.

For me, ensete's are tender when they were young but as they become larger they are robust .

I would also change the soilless mix to a peat moss perlite based medium to give those roots something to grow into. Your current medium will not allow this for it is too dense and large.

A couple of these pics can give you an idea of the soilless mix.
Double click on the photo if you wish to see more photos.
It will take you to my public Flickr account where you can see more mixs.

There are some good recipes for soilless mixs on youtube which can help.

.

Supplies for the soilless mix for all of the plants.
by
Hostafarian,
on Flickr

a.hulva@coxinet.net · 08-30-2016, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate74

Hmmm, mine are full sun sun and have a ton of red, west coast of Canada

VARY nice looking setup. Beautiful plants. You have obviously put a lot of work and effort into you display. Picture is perfect. Keep em coming.

Nate74 · 08-30-2016, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a.hulva@coxinet.net

VARY nice looking setup. Beautiful plants. You have obviously put a lot of work and effort into you display. Picture is perfect. Keep em coming.

Thanks, lots more pics of my yard here.

saxybill1 · 09-02-2016, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cincinnana

Actually I see a couple of the challenges .... coco coir.....it might be holding too much water and it is too large a medium for that type of plant.
Great for orchids and other epiphytes though which do not have fine root structure.

Granlular fertilizer too much too soon.. perhaps use a weak water soluble fertilizer while the plants are that small and then introduce granlulars when they are much larger when you repot as they get larger.

For me, ensete's are tender when they were young but as they become larger they are robust .

I would also change the soilless mix to a peat moss perlite based medium to give those roots something to grow into. Your current medium will not allow this for it is too dense and large.

A couple of these pics can give you an idea of the soilless mix.
Double click on the photo if you wish to see more photos.
It will take you to my public Flickr account where you can see more mixs.

There are some good recipes for soilless mixs on youtube which can help.

.

Supplies for the soilless mix for all of the plants.
by
Hostafarian,
on Flickr

Greathoroscope, I very much enjoyed them. On the first batch of photos you have several variegated leaves laying on the ground. What plant do the red leaves come from.
Thanks

mushtaq86 · 09-04-2016, 03:17 PM

Hi Ben

Ensete maurelii reverts back to all green EV form in hot, humid climates this is what I have read and heard from other people, seeing that you have sent them to Peter Heyens, he should have known about it. The red is more intense in cooler climates, like the UK.

08-23-2016, 04:06 AM	#1 (permalink)
benbaron Location: UK (up north) Find me on the map! Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 43 BananaBucks : 24,402 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 8 Times Was Thanked 51 Times in 25 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1 Times	Ensete maurelii in the heat Hi all, Im chatting with a chap in Thailand that I sent some Tc'd ensete maurelii plugs to. They grow nice and healthy but have turned bright green, losing all the red colouration. My initial thoughts were light intensity, so hes tried in full shade but same thing. What effects the red colour on them as in the UK poppin them in the shade causes more red - but that might just be the case of them being in a colder spot.....

08-23-2016, 05:22 PM	#2 (permalink)
Nerka1 Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 9 BananaBucks : 1,542 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 0 Times Was Thanked 10 Times in 5 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Ensete maurelii in the heat Sunlight=Red

08-24-2016, 03:09 AM	#3 (permalink)
benbaron Location: UK (up north) Find me on the map! Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 43 BananaBucks : 24,402 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 8 Times Was Thanked 51 Times in 25 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1 Times	Re: Ensete maurelii in the heat Sunlight = green in the UK, they work the opposite to musa. Less light more red. But - as stated the chap has had them in shade also..

08-29-2016, 11:20 AM	#4 (permalink)
Nate74 Location: Abbotsford BC Find me on the map! Zone: 8B Elevation 133m/436ft Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 84 BananaBucks : 37,836 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 113 Times Was Thanked 243 Times in 60 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 91 Times	Re: Ensete maurelii in the heat Hmmm, mine are full sun sun and have a ton of red, west coast of Canada __________________

08-29-2016, 11:42 AM	#5 (permalink)
jmoore jmoore 's Photo Gallery Location: Lowestoft, UK Zone: 8a Name: James Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 766 BananaBucks : 133,176 Feedback: 4 / 100% Said "Thanks" 192 Times Was Thanked 799 Times in 373 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 71 Times	Re: Ensete maurelii in the heat I've never seen that before, but I found this: "A third pigment, or class of pigments, that occur in leaves are the anthocyanins. Anthocyanins absorb blue, blue-green, and green light. Therefore, the light reflected by leaves containing anthocyanins appears red. Unlike chlorophyll and carotene, anthocyanins are not attached to cell membranes, but are dissolved in the cell sap. The color produced by these pigments is sensitive to the pH of the cell sap. If the sap is quite acidic, the pigments impart a bright red color; if the sap is less acidic, its color is more purple. Anthocyanin pigments are responsible for the red skin of ripe apples and the purple of ripe grapes. Anthocyanins are formed by a reaction between sugars and certain proteins in cell sap. This reaction does not occur until the concentration of sugar in the sap is quite high. The reaction also requires light. This is why apples often appear red on one side and green on the other; the red side was in the sun and the green side was in shade." Chemical of the Week -- The Chemistry of Autumn Colors Sun does make them more red. I suspect that as they are TC they haven't quite acclimatised as of yet, once they do they will start to produce the red colouration. PS is that bark he has them in? Also is that slow release fertiliser? Can't be much in the way of nutrients in that. To produce the proteins required for the red colouration the plant needs nitrates. No nitrates = no red. Maybe they are deficient. Last edited by jmoore : 08-29-2016 at 11:46 AM.

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08-30-2016, 04:43 AM	#6 (permalink)
benbaron Location: UK (up north) Find me on the map! Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 43 BananaBucks : 24,402 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 8 Times Was Thanked 51 Times in 25 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1 Times	Re: Ensete maurelii in the heat Coco fibres, interesting posting regarding the pigments. I had a feeling it could have been due to ph myself - but I'll let him know - stick em in clay and see what happens.

08-30-2016, 07:49 AM	#7 (permalink)
cincinnana <div style="font-weight: bold;color: Orange;">container grower</div> Location: Southwest Ohio U.S.A.🇺🇸 Find me on the map! Zone: HZ 6/5 Microclimate - Elevation 750 feet- 228.60 meters Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 8,876 BananaBucks : 1,523 Feedback: 7 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,914 Times Was Thanked 11,776 Times in 4,910 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,957 Times	Re: Ensete maurelii in the heat Actually I see a couple of the challenges .... coco coir.....it might be holding too much water and it is too large a medium for that type of plant. Great for orchids and other epiphytes though which do not have fine root structure. Granlular fertilizer too much too soon.. perhaps use a weak water soluble fertilizer while the plants are that small and then introduce granlulars when they are much larger when you repot as they get larger. For me, ensete's are tender when they were young but as they become larger they are robust . I would also change the soilless mix to a peat moss perlite based medium to give those roots something to grow into. Your current medium will not allow this for it is too dense and large. A couple of these pics can give you an idea of the soilless mix. Double click on the photo if you wish to see more photos. It will take you to my public Flickr account where you can see more mixs. There are some good recipes for soilless mixs on youtube which can help. . Supplies for the soilless mix for all of the plants. by Hostafarian, on Flickr __________________ Cincinnana/Hostafarians Photo Gallery 🌴 Last edited by cincinnana : 08-30-2016 at 07:52 AM.

09-04-2016, 03:17 PM	#11 (permalink)
mushtaq86 mushtaq86's Photo Gallery Location: Hartlepool, UK Name: Mushtaq Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 707 BananaBucks : 74,899 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 2,708 Times Was Thanked 820 Times in 381 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 46 Times	Re: Ensete maurelii in the heat Hi Ben Ensete maurelii reverts back to all green EV form in hot, humid climates this is what I have read and heard from other people, seeing that you have sent them to Peter Heyens, he should have known about it. The red is more intense in cooler climates, like the UK. Last edited by mushtaq86 : 09-04-2016 at 04:14 PM.

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