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Old 02-21-2014, 12:01 PM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Question Dw.Namwah vs. Raja Puri Vs. Mysore/Pisang Ceylon

We have 3 beds waiting for 3 new (for us) varieties of bananas. I believe I have finally chosen which three:
  1. Dw. Namwah
  2. Raja Puri
  3. Mysore/Pisand Ceylon.
We are in zone 8b/9. My priorities in choosing were/are:
  • Taste- we like sweet
  • Texture- a texture like store bought Cavendish, not hard or mushy
  • Wind tolerance- don't want to have to prop. We get wind as we are on a hill. But, never had to prop our Orinocos
  • Size- not Saba huge. Want to shorter for 2 of the front beds, back left bed can be taller -See pic/beds are circled (ignore red circle).
  • Quantity of production


There is so much info. that is varied, I'm not sure what to believe is typical. Considering the traits above, can y'all let me know how the above three compare/contrast?
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Old 02-21-2014, 12:38 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dw.Namwah vs. Raja Puri Vs. Mysore/Pisang Ceylon

Good choices. Of the 3, you'll probably need to prop Mysore. It's one of the varieties I have to prop. The p-stems don't seem to be as thick as some other types and they get taller than dwarf varieties. Put it in whichever spot will have the least wind, although all your spots look pretty out in the open. None have a texture like a cavendish and they're each quite different from each other. They're all sweet, but Mysores are also very tangy. None are really as sweet as a cavendish.
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Old 02-21-2014, 04:10 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dw.Namwah vs. Raja Puri Vs. Mysore/Pisang Ceylon

I also think those are great choices. Enjoy!
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Old 02-21-2014, 07:37 PM   #4 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Dw.Namwah vs. Raja Puri Vs. Mysore/Pisang Ceylon

Quote:
Originally Posted by robguz24 View Post
Good choices. Of the 3, you'll probably need to prop Mysore. It's one of the varieties I have to prop. The p-stems don't seem to be as thick as some other types and they get taller than dwarf varieties. Put it in whichever spot will have the least wind, although all your spots look pretty out in the open. None have a texture like a cavendish and they're each quite different from each other. They're all sweet, but Mysores are also very tangy. None are really as sweet as a cavendish.
Well, now I'm questioning if I should scratch the Raja Puri for a Dw. Cavendish since you mentioned Raja Puri (and others) may not be as sweet. I like the store Cavendish (texture) and hear home grown is all that much better.
Can you tell me the fruit size difference between the Dw. Cavendish and Raja Puri. Also, how would you describe the texture differences?
Thanks for any info.
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Old 02-21-2014, 08:10 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dw.Namwah vs. Raja Puri Vs. Mysore/Pisang Ceylon

I don't know what is going to do best in your climate, something else important to consider, but cavendish types are less cold tolerant than Raja Puri. It seems like it's a favorite of many because it's easy to grow and cold hardy. I recall the texture being more chewy, much like a namwah. Certainly more dense. For may taste, they aren't my favorite, but then neither are cavendish types. I've had some locally grown DCs and Williams that were quite good, and I've like my own DCs, but ripped out all my Williams.

The cavendish types and other AAAs tend to have a more soft texture, have no sub-acid (tangy, apple, etc) taste, and are considered very sweet. The others you are considering are sweet, but to me not as sweet and have a better, more complex flavor. Texture wise, none of your options are hard or mushy (though I'd consider cavendish types more mushy than bananas with some B in them).

These are my taste reports of the the 3 you're considering. Just my opinion of course, though I tried to be more descriptive and objective:
Mysore taste report
Tall Namwah Taste Report
Raja Puri taste report
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Old 02-21-2014, 10:05 PM   #6 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Dw.Namwah vs. Raja Puri Vs. Mysore/Pisang Ceylon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawler View Post
Well, now I'm questioning if I should scratch the Raja Puri for a Dw. Cavendish since you mentioned Raja Puri (and others) may not be as sweet. I like the store Cavendish (texture) and hear home grown is all that much better.
Can you tell me the fruit size difference between the Dw. Cavendish and Raja Puri. Also, how would you describe the texture differences?
Thanks for any info.
Lawler
I wouldn't do Cavendish if I were you. You can buy them in the supermarket any day, and they will be bigger and possibly better than what you can grow. At least that's the case for me. It is really a tropical plant and doesn't like cool or dry.

I'd replace Raja Puri with Dwarf Brazilian. The fruit are similar but better, it is more productive, and the plant is a bit hardier and less prone to micronutrient deficiencies (at least in my climate). Its only downside is that it is bigger than Raja Puri. But you won't have to prop it and it is nowhere near as tall as Mysore/Pisang Ceylan.

In terms of sweetness, a lot of that is taste perception, not sugar content. In terms of sugar content, the figures I've seen show Namwah to be the highest of the ones you mentioned, including Cavendish. They are very sweet when fully ripe (black skins), too sweet for some folks. Adding a tart component, like that found in Mysore, Raja Puri, and Dwarf Brazilian I think makes those varieties seem less sweet (and more balanced, to me), but they have similar sugar content as Cavendish.
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Old 02-21-2014, 11:17 PM   #7 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Dw.Namwah vs. Raja Puri Vs. Mysore/Pisang Ceylon

D nam wah 6 foot to fruit
Raja puri 5 foot to fruit
D brazillion 6-7 foot to fruit
D brazillion the best tasting raja puri 2nd and d namwah last
I really love raja puri for its stoutness and wind resistance.
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Old 02-21-2014, 11:18 PM   #8 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Dw.Namwah vs. Raja Puri Vs. Mysore/Pisang Ceylon

Quote:
Originally Posted by venturabananas View Post
I wouldn't do Cavendish if I were you. You can buy them in the supermarket any day, and they will be bigger and possibly better than what you can grow. At least that's the case for me. It is really a tropical plant and doesn't like cool or dry.
Mark, Thanks for the good info. I'm so on the fence and when I read Rob's (robguz24) taste review of the raja puri... I started to get cold feet. I don't want a chewy, rubbery or mealy texture as he mentioned. Yet, he said that RP is still better than Cavendish (but I like the store bananas- he, I don't think does).

So, you mentioned climate- always important. We are zone 8b/9 -near Houston, TX... so a Cavendish should be fine here, right?
Don't know if you have a Dw. Cavendish... Do they have a thicker Pstem and/or are they more sturdy w/ wind than a Mysore?
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Old 02-21-2014, 11:33 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dw.Namwah vs. Raja Puri Vs. Mysore/Pisang Ceylon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawler View Post
Mark, Thanks for the good info. I'm so on the fence and when I read Rob's (robguz24) taste review of the raja puri... I started to get cold feet. I don't want a chewy, rubbery or mealy texture as he mentioned. Yet, he said that RP is still better than Cavendish (but I like the store bananas- he, I don't think does).

So, you mentioned climate- always important. We are zone 8b/9 -near Houston, TX... so a Cavendish should be fine here, right?
Don't know if you have a Dw. Cavendish... Do they have a thicker Pstem and/or are they more sturdy w/ wind than a Mysore?
In my opinion, none of the bananas you have selected will survive your winter without serious, labor-intensive protection. Somehow you'll need to keep the plants, corms, and roots from freezing -- and ideally keep them from sustained temperatures below 40F.
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Old 02-21-2014, 11:47 PM   #10 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Dw.Namwah vs. Raja Puri Vs. Mysore/Pisang Ceylon

Quote:
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In my opinion, none of the bananas you have selected will survive your winter without serious, labor-intensive protection. Somehow you'll need to keep the plants, corms, and roots from freezing -- and ideally keep them from sustained temperatures below 40F.
How do the (subject title) selections compare to Orinocos in terms of cold hardiness? We've had Orinocos that... good golly, we couldn't kill on our burn pile (they came back), much less the wild bunch of Orinocos we have always comes back after winter. Yes, they get brown and ugly (one might think they're dead). But come spring, we clean them up and top them to a healthy level and viola'... after some spring weather, they make themselves known.
So, ...back to ?... how does my selection compare in cold tolerance to Orinocos?
To add to the mix, how would Dw. Cavendish compare against Orinocos w/ cold tolerance?
P.S. we're zone 8b/9
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Old 02-21-2014, 11:57 PM   #11 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Dw.Namwah vs. Raja Puri Vs. Mysore/Pisang Ceylon

Quote:
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...how would Dw. Cavendish compare against Orinocos w/ cold tolerance?
Terrible, not even in the ballpark with Orinoco.
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Old 02-22-2014, 12:00 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dw.Namwah vs. Raja Puri Vs. Mysore/Pisang Ceylon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawler View Post
How do the (subject title) selections compare to Orinocos in terms of cold hardiness?
They are zone 10a+ plants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawler View Post
We've had Orinocos that... good golly, we couldn't kill on our burn pile (they came back), much less the wild bunch of Orinocos we have always comes back after winter. Yes, they get brown and ugly (one might think they're dead). But come spring, we clean them up and top them to a healthy level and viola'... after some spring weather, they make themselves known.
Yup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawler View Post
So, ...back to ?... how does my selection compare in cold tolerance to Orinocos?
Your observations of Orinocos have been substantiated by many members here. Members growing the subject naner's in your zone typically over-winter them indoors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawler View Post
To add to the mix, how would Dw. Cavendish compare against Orinocos w/ cold tolerance?
In my opinion, Orinocos are an anomaly of cold tolerance among fruiting bananas.

Dwarf Cavendish falters in zone 9b when left outdoors to its own resources. Also as venturabananas points out, you can buy better Cavendish bananas at the store. I grew D. Cavendish in zone 9b for 2 years and was disgusted with the crops.
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Old 02-22-2014, 12:01 AM   #13 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Dw.Namwah vs. Raja Puri Vs. Mysore/Pisang Ceylon

Quote:
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How do the (subject title) selections compare to Orinocos in terms of cold hardiness?
I never get freezing temperatures, so it won't be a fair comparison really, but when temps get into the 30's, Dwarf Namwah fares better than Orinoco in my yard. Dwarf Brazilian and Raja Puri are about the same. Mysore/Pisang Ceylon would be the next tier, similar to Orinoco, but a bit less tolerant of cool temps.
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Old 02-22-2014, 11:40 AM   #14 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Dw.Namwah vs. Raja Puri Vs. Mysore/Pisang Ceylon

Quote:
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In my opinion, none of the bananas you have selected will survive your winter without serious, labor-intensive protection. Somehow you'll need to keep the plants, corms, and roots from freezing -- and ideally keep them from sustained temperatures below 40F.
Now I'm wondering if I'm back to sq.1... on Wiki here, the three selections show all to be tolerant to zones 8-10 (I'm 8b/9).. with the Raja Puri being zone 8-9 ... WHAT... I read a bunch about it being more cold tolerant- that's what I put it on the list.
This guy in CA says:

Hardiest edible? CA gold, Raja puri, ornico

his last with temps in mid/upper 20s.

Perhaps, as I wondered aloud to my better half.. perhaps we're talking that 'tolerant = staying pretty and green'.

What we merely are concerned with, regarding tolerance, is that they don't die. I don't care if they get brown and ugly. If they can be cleaned up in the spring and have the pstem cut back to a decent # feet in height and that they take off & produce, that'd be good.

I'm thinking this is the case if they are in pots and not protected or folks can be in same zone different local and have different results ??
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Old 02-22-2014, 11:58 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dw.Namwah vs. Raja Puri Vs. Mysore/Pisang Ceylon

What Wiki doesn't tell you is a well established plant is more cold tolerant than something you just stuck in the ground.. :^)
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Old 02-22-2014, 07:03 PM   #16 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Dw.Namwah vs. Raja Puri Vs. Mysore/Pisang Ceylon

Lawler, I think you just need to give them a try. As I said, in my zone where it never freezes but gets in the 30's, Orinoco isn't a standout for tolerance to the cool, i.e., it looks no better than the other varieties mentioned (Namwah, Raja puri, and Dwarf Brazilian). But that may not reflect how they'll do if you get freezes.
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Old 03-14-2014, 09:26 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dw.Namwah vs. Raja Puri Vs. Mysore/Pisang Ceylon

Thanks for the thread. I am pretty disgusted with my DC's right now. They keep sending up flowers around Thanksgiving; though I bring them indoors, there is not enough light to ripen the fruit, which eventually rots away. I am tired of breaking my back dragging pots and getting no fruit. I am going to plant bananas in the ground and over-winter them outdoors. I will try Raja Puri and Dwarf Brazilian, as you have chosen. I already have orinoco.
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Old 03-14-2014, 11:17 PM   #18 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Dw.Namwah vs. Raja Puri Vs. Mysore/Pisang Ceylon

Well, I am going to stick with my three choices:

1.Dw. Namwah
2.Raja Puri
3.Mysore/Pisang Ceylon.

Believe I have a RP secured.
Just need to find genuine varieties (is it "varieties" or 'types'?) of the other two.
Hear/believe I need to be patient since pups will be arriving as the season(s) move warmer... perhaps the 'woodwork' will reveal a/some sources in the next couple/few months.
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Old 03-15-2014, 09:00 PM   #19 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Dw.Namwah vs. Raja Puri Vs. Mysore/Pisang Ceylon

Quote:
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How do the (subject title) selections compare to Orinocos in terms of cold hardiness?
I'm probably the less experienced guy around here. And my climate differs from you both in quantity and quality of cold days during the year. However, my experience with rajapuri has been more than disappointing. Another guy from italy, wich has experienced with that plant, says the same. I would put the rajapuri in same class with cavendish. They can take some cold probably, but can't stand extended periods of cold weather. Maybe it's an humidity thing, i don't know. Here it is pretty humid during winter. But i simply think that it can't survive in long periods with low temperatures (even if freezing).
Rajapuri is an amazing plant overall, but in some climates its reputed cold hardiness doesn't work in my humble opinion.

Quote:
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I am pretty disgusted with my DC's right now. They keep sending up flowers around Thanksgiving; though I bring them indoors, there is not enough light to ripen the fruit, which eventually rots away.
I haven't flowered a single banana yet, but i have tought a lot about this issue. Apparently many bananas start differentiating the flower at some point of the summer. Obviously, since our summer ends just when the flower shows up, we end with a flower at the beginning of the autumn: and this is more and more true if we contimue to push our plant at the maximum speed in hope of obtaining a flower (think about this: if you put attention on it you'll notice tthat most temperate growers get a flower just at the beginning of the autumn).
So, i thought, what can be done to overcome this? The best idea i have come with is to put the plant in a stress once the flower is differentiated, to slow down the development. Yes, i know, quality and quantity of the flower will be affected but it's better to get few finger than no fingers.

So far, since my growing period goes from april to the beginning of october, my solution has been the following: I uproot and pot up all my plant during the last week of august, at the peak of the gowing season, when temperature are still high but are about to decrease. So far, almost every plant treated this way, got an huge stop in growt. They always take about a month before starting to grow again in pot. This way, i hope, i will slow any flowering plant enought to force any flower inside the plant to emerge after the winter, when you have a long summer ahead to ripen the fruit.
Will this work? I don't know. I think that much depends from the bananas: if they are able to "reset" themselve, and abort the flower already developing, my efforts are vane. But as far as i know, bananas don't about the flower once the flower initiation has started, so we should try to work on it.
And anyway, i should pot my banana every winter, so i'm not adding work to my schedule.
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Old 03-15-2014, 10:52 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dw.Namwah vs. Raja Puri Vs. Mysore/Pisang Ceylon

Lawler... please know I'm no expert here but I will give you my 2 cents anyway. I think you will have a hard time with the Mysore and about on par with Dwarf Cavendish. They will need extensive winterization,papering and hope for the best. I've found the Tall and Dwarf Namwah to be not as finicky and on par with Orinoco or close, and have very tasty fruit. I've been very disappointed in the Raja Puri and I must have a bad strain of it as I've only got one small bunch after growing them for about five years with several mats in my yard now. I know people love them but for some reason I can't get them to do much. Hope this helps.
Bo
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