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Old 07-13-2018, 08:14 PM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Default Clarification of Agristarts "ICE CREAM" Banana

I spent some time on the phone yesterday with Agristarts. I've been buying from them for a number of years now and I have a great working relationship with them and the owner.

I've talked to them years ago about their "Ice Cream" plant and yesterday I called again for clarification of what exactly it is.

It is NOT a blue Java, but most likely a Variation of a Blue Jave. Possibly also a variation of a Namwah. Or a mix(?)

They would NOT call it a Blue Java.

WHAT IT IS... is a variant they've been selling for 30+ years. their own variant of a banana that tastes like ice cream.

So there you have it. It's NOT a blue java.

Not sure exactly what it is, But it is definitely NOT a Blue Java.

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Old 07-14-2018, 02:04 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Clarification of Agristarts "ICE CREAM" Banana

I can say the one I grow from agristarts is 100% for sure a Musa Tall Namwa! Great banana. Namwa is one of if not the most productive sweet banana. They have huge bunches and are very reliable! They don’t require propping! Very cold hardy! Just a great all around plant! However they are not blue java or an offtype of blue java. It is for sure a Pisang awak!

Blue java is a bluggoe or ney mannan. I like namwa but I like blue java better! Haha. Sadly they are a “rare” plant still. They are becoming more available though. I do not call any banana an “ice cream”! It just causes confusion. But a blue java and a namwa is like night and day! Very different looking and growing plants! Very different fruit! Both are excellent!

So don’t be scared of the agristarts tall namwa. It’s an amazing Musa. Just don’t expect a real blue java. Honestly I wish they would TC BOTH. I have TCed a blue java personally and there is no difference from TCing any other Musa.

That is my input! Grow them both! Both are very cold hardy! I would say the blue java is more cold hard

I have pictures of both on my Flickr account!
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Old 07-14-2018, 02:45 AM   #3 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Clarification of Agristarts "ICE CREAM" Banana

what is your opinion on the flavor of the blue java?
what's it taste like?
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Old 07-14-2018, 10:33 AM   #4 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Clarification of Agristarts "ICE CREAM" Banana

Let the drama begin! I would have to disagree with Ty. I grow the Agristarts Ice Cream and the real Blue Java right next to each other. I would say they look very very similar. I can't tell the difference. Maybe someone with a better eye could. But I can't. But I'm also definitely not as experienced as Ty. Also for me the Agristarts Ice Cream unfortunately does need to be propped. It fruits at ten feet and the real Blue Jave fruits at twelve and a half feet.

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Old 07-14-2018, 11:09 AM   #5 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Clarification of Agristarts "ICE CREAM" Banana

Since there is a discussion of comparison, why do these namwahs look so different from mine? There is more and they are bluish than mine produce. Because of other videos I have seen these blue ones don't look as gummy tacky gross as mine. What do the agristarts look like Obviously this guys plants are not Blue Java but he is an expert so who am I to argue. Maybe his are agristarts?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hivXPGOErPU
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Old 07-14-2018, 11:21 AM   #6 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Clarification of Agristarts "ICE CREAM" Banana

Quote:
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the real Blue Jave fruits at twelve and a half feet.

Bill
these fruited at about 6-7 ft.. Not sure why but they are so crowded I have to think that is why.
Crazy Bananas are way taller but she also manicures and thins her plants meticulously.

these guys are leaning over so much, even the ones that are not fruiting are at 45 degrees.
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Old 07-14-2018, 12:38 PM   #7 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Clarification of Agristarts "ICE CREAM" Banana

In my experience the first time a banana fruits is the shortest it will ever fruit. Subsequent stems will fruit taller. In my mind this is because as the corm matures and grows it has more energy to put into the Pseudostems. Just my thoughts.

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Old 07-14-2018, 03:57 PM   #8 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Clarification of Agristarts "ICE CREAM" Banana

Let me clarify this a little. Here are a couple pictures of the Agristarts Ice Cream banana. I bought this in Home Depot several years ago. It was grown by La Verne Nursery. I believe they buy them from Agristarts and grow them up.





This fruit is close to being ready. It flowered several months after the Blue Java growing right next to it.

Here are photos of my Blue Java fruit.





Even now this fruit has more blue color to it then the Agristarts Ice Cream. When the fruit was less mature it had much more blue color to it.

I also want to clarify that to me the two plants are impossible to tell apart. But the fruit is very very different on the inside and outside.

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Old 07-19-2018, 10:55 AM   #9 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Clarification of Agristarts "ICE CREAM" Banana

Piggybacking off of Ty- Ney Mannan is another subgroup used to classify 'Blue Java'. I learned recently there is still debate as to whether Ney Mannan is a legitimate subgroup in the ideal sense, or if cultivars associated with it are really just Bluggoes, both are used, and there isn't really an authoritative reference on it, or many other subgroups, yet.

Regardless of what you hear from our good friends on this site, the real deal 'Blue java' I tried and have growing is hands down one of the best tasting fruit I've ever had. Clones of cultivars/varieties can have so many different regional variables that affect taste, appearance, etc.
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Old 07-19-2018, 12:46 PM   #10 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Clarification of Agristarts "ICE CREAM" Banana

Quote:
Originally Posted by Island Brah View Post
Piggybacking off of Ty- Ney Mannan is another subgroup used to classify 'Blue Java'. I learned recently there is still debate as to whether Ney Mannan is a legitimate subgroup in the ideal sense, or if cultivars associated with it are really just Bluggoes, both are used, and there isn't really an authoritative reference on it, or many other subgroups, yet.

Regardless of what you hear from our good friends on this site, the real deal 'Blue java' I tried and have growing is hands down one of the best tasting fruit I've ever had. Clones of cultivars/varieties can have so many different regional variables that affect taste, appearance, etc.
I have a tall Orinoco that I shared with a friend of mine. So his plant his just a sucker from mine. My fruits are yellowish fluffy and not bad raw but awesome fried. The fruits on his always come out orange on the inside or orange marbled. His are dense and gross sweet and fry up gummy. This easily supports what you just said about the Blue Java.
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Old 07-26-2018, 12:26 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Clarification of Agristarts "ICE CREAM" Banana

Sorry for the Ney Mannan to Ney Poovan autocorrect! I just saw it and fixed it.

To me blue java and namwa look so different. In fact to me a blue java grows and looks a lot like a tall Orinoco. Namwa grows so tall. 18’ is my all time largest. Blue java flowers at 12-14’ here. Blue java is even more cold hardy than namwa. They survived this year while Orinocos and namwa beside them died.

Taste just as Island Brah said. Very good! I have tried quite a few and they are #3. No vanilla flavor! They are creamy! Very creamy! Quite sweet and very good. Not as sweet as namwa. Blue java also get a nasty core just like an Orinoco.

I 100% agree with Bryce! I have tasted the same variety and one good and the other bad! I think it has to do with the amount of potassium that was available during the entire cycle. I’m sure the total care and location plays a big role! There is so many factors!

My conclusion is both are great plants! Both taste excellent! Namwa is easy to get and more productive! Blue java seems to be more cold hardy to me! Which I am very happy about!

I say grow them all! Hahaha
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Old 07-26-2018, 01:23 PM   #12 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Clarification of Agristarts "ICE CREAM" Banana

Quote:
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Blue java also get a nasty core just like an Orinoco.
nasty Core? Please elaborate.
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Old 07-26-2018, 02:42 PM   #13 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Clarification of Agristarts "ICE CREAM" Banana

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nasty Core? Please elaborate.
I was curious about that also.
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Old 07-27-2018, 04:28 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: Clarification of Agristarts "ICE CREAM" Banana

Just like Orinoco does sometimes. The core of the fruit can be hard and mostly chewy. I describe it as dense, hard, chewy, and almost dry-like. When you bite into one you will know! Compost for me! I can’t handle the texture. You can eat around it but on say Orinoco it’s just not worth it. Compost the bunch.

I have experimented with it on Orinoco. If you force ripen them fast with ethylene they are fine! But the same banana hanging for 2 weeks to ripen fully will have it! So ripen and eat them fast! I normally get 20+ bunches of Orinoco and usually 3-5 or more bunches will have the bad core. I’ve even purchased Orinoco in the stores and they had it! Seems pretty common. I’m not sure what causes it.
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Old 07-27-2018, 05:34 PM   #15 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Clarification of Agristarts "ICE CREAM" Banana

The agri-starts "Ice Cream" that I have has the pink around the edges of the leaf exactly like the dwarf namwah that I have. The ice cream blue java does not have the pink at all.
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Old 07-28-2018, 11:15 AM   #16 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Clarification of Agristarts "ICE CREAM" Banana

My Blue Java has red on the edges of new leaves when small. Just like my Namwa growing next to it. Maybe the difference is growing conditions or maybe there are a couple of strains of Blue Java?

Bill
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