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Old 12-29-2016, 09:23 PM   #21 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Best Practice to grow TC Bananas

OK … for those following this thread:

…. This thread was to find or define the Best Practice to grow young TC Plantlets, which are just out of the rooting tray and greenhouse. Both Beam2050 and Sputinc7 have helped (whether they know it or not) by posting their growing method. Their method works for them. Why? … They both live in Florida!

It was stated above that we were struggling with basic gardening methods. Those basic methods are Fertilizer, water & humidity, sunlight, and temperature applied in the right combination for the “particular” plant being grown. … TC plantlet ARE NOT the same as growing a 3 ft tall banana pup or a garden of corn; and growing banana plants inside is not the same as growing them outside. Different methods are needed; mostly only slight changes.

So why did Beam2050 and Sputtinc7 method succeed and I lost 3 of my TCs? … I believe it was Humidity. If you have every been to Florida during the summer, then you would know how humid Florida is. You can actual see moisture vapor (aka: steam) rising from the sandy ground. Beam2050 had his TC plants in gallon pots under a small igloo style greenhouse cover directly on top of the ground. This trapped the ground humidity keeping the upper green plant moist and provided need shade from the sun. Sputic7 planted his TC Plantlets directly in the ground then placed a ‘lawn chair’ over the plant for shade and the rising ground moisture kept the plantlets from drying out. Their methods met the basic needs of the TC plantlets.

Now what happened to my plantlets? … I brought my plantlet inside because of low nightly temperatures (38 F tonight) and I have not built a greenhouse yet. It was only 5 pots. However, Georgia humidity is much lower than Florida’s (knock on wood; usually) and the humidity inside the house is even lower. This caused the upper green part of the plant to slowly dry out which then the plantlet looked like it needed watering. With these young tender TC plantlets, once a problem becomes visible it is almost too late to correct. … So live and learn … buy new plantlets ...

The steps I outlined above for TC growth I will try with my next plantlets. This has not changed, but humidity control or plant misting even in a small greenhouse will be top of the list. … I live in hot dry Georgia not humid wet Florida.

Thanks to Beam2050, Sputinc7, and Richard. If anyone has additional suggestions please post them.
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Old 12-29-2016, 11:11 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: Best Practice to grow TC Bananas

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... humidity control or plant misting even in a small greenhouse will be top of the list. ...
I don't think frequent misting or sustained high humidity are necessary at all.
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Old 12-29-2016, 11:20 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: Best Practice to grow TC Bananas

See if this helps ...
Richard's Guide to Potted Plant care
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Old 12-30-2016, 07:17 AM   #24 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Best Practice to grow TC Bananas

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I don't think frequent misting or sustained high humidity are necessary at all.
These plantlets came from a greenhouse where they were receiving misting. The pots & soil-mix were carefully watered, not too dry and not too wet using a moisture meter. But, 3 plantlets slowly withered & died. No misting or low humidity is certainly an environmental change for the young tender TC plantlet.

The two plantlets that have survived ARE getting daily misting (not frequent) from the squirt bottle. To reduce plant stress of the new TC plantlets, the greenhouse conditions need to be provided as closely as possible & practical for couple of weeks and then reduced to normal potted plant conditions as the plantlet grows.

Few of us can afford $8 to $10 per plantlet (or $2 from Argistarts) just to find which will survive by JUST putting the plantlet into a pot or ground and water. The goal is to insure all the plantlets will survive, even the weaker ones.

I'm not realty new to this. Growing up on a Farm, we had a small nursery operation rooting plants. The sprinklers for finishing & harden-off the finished pots are still in place. I plan to be using those within the next year.
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Old 12-30-2016, 07:22 AM   #25 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Best Practice to grow TC Bananas

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Thanks for the link. But I'm already aware of how to pot up a plant. Those general directions were being followed. ... As far growing tubular plants (aka: potatoes), that I'm not doing. Not in pots anyway, 1/2 acre plots yes.
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Old 12-30-2016, 10:48 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Default Re: Best Practice to grow TC Bananas

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Thanks for the link. But I'm already aware of how to pot up a plant. Those general directions were being followed. ... As far growing tubular plants (aka: potatoes), that I'm not doing. Not in pots anyway, 1/2 acre plots yes.
Try following the watering instructions and being less defensive.
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Old 12-30-2016, 01:10 PM   #27 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Best Practice to grow TC Bananas

So you now have 2 out of 5 that survived?and are you saying these are TC's that were 2 inches or so? like what you see in jars?in TC Labs? It's not easy to start up any young banana in November even in a greenhouse. I'm sure you will have a greater success rate buying them in spring.
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Old 12-30-2016, 04:39 PM   #28 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Best Practice to grow TC Bananas

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Try following the watering instructions and being less defensive.
Why do you think I wasn't following good watering practice which BTW induces similar actions as described by your reference? I have stated several time water was being carefully watched. ... Are you trying to promote your link?
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Old 12-30-2016, 04:51 PM   #29 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Best Practice to grow TC Bananas

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So you now have 2 out of 5 that survived?and are you saying these are TC's that were 2 inches or so? like what you see in jars?in TC Labs? It's not easy to start up any young banana in November even in a greenhouse. I'm sure you will have a greater success rate buying them in spring.
I don't know where you got those height measurements, the size of the plants were posted above. Except the Little Prince, it is a little over 3" tall and the pstem is about 5/8" dia. This one is a tough little bugger. I put it outside 2 weeks ago for a little sun. The leaves sunburned. I forgot this one does not like direct sun. within a week it has grown new leaves and dropped the old ones.

The two surviving plantlets of the 5 are: Gros Mich (5" tall pstem) and the Little Prince (3" plus pstem).
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Old 12-30-2016, 08:52 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Default Re: Best Practice to grow TC Bananas

Quote:
Originally Posted by edwmax View Post
...
It appears that:
  1. your effort at reading advice and horticulture literature is only cursory
  2. you believe your approach is similar to what I've described when in fact it is different
  3. you are defensive to everyone in this thread to the point of being offensive.
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Old 12-30-2016, 11:03 PM   #31 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Best Practice to grow TC Bananas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard View Post
It appears that:
  1. your effort at reading advice and horticulture literature is only cursory
  2. you believe your approach is similar to what I've described when in fact it is different
  3. you are defensive to everyone in this thread to the point of being offensive.
Presumptuous assumption on your part since there absolutely no way for you to know any of that is true.

You are the one attacking me!
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Old 12-30-2016, 11:34 PM   #32 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Best Practice to grow TC Bananas

There is, many times, more than one correct way to do something. To be the correct way, all it has to do is work. It may not be the most efficient way or the way you like to do it, but those factors do not prevent it from being correct.
For instance, you can shut a door then lock it, or lock the door then shut it. Which way is right? Either way it ends up shut and locked which is the objective. No need to be so dogmatic about your preferred methods, people, please...
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Varieties I supposedly bought: Manzano, Cavendish, Blue Java, Sweetheart, and Gros Michel.
What it seems I actually have: Brazilian, Cavendish, Namwah, Dwarf Red, Gros Michel, Pisang Ceylon, Veinte Cohol and SH 3640, and American Goldfinger. FHIA 1, Paggi and FHIA 17... Always room for one more.
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Old 12-31-2016, 12:38 AM   #33 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Best Practice to grow TC Bananas

Quote:
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There is, many times, more than one correct way to do something. To be the correct way, all it has to do is work. It may not be the most efficient way or the way you like to do it, but those factors do not prevent it from being correct.
For instance, you can shut a door then lock it, or lock the door then shut it. Which way is right? Either way it ends up shut and locked which is the objective. No need to be so dogmatic about your preferred methods, people, please...

You are entirely correct! ...

Richard's first link posted was to an article about 'fruiting home grown bananas' for site selection; planting; and watering of field ready plants. It did contain (only) 2 statements about TC plants in reference to shade and fertilizer. His second link posted is to his article "A few words about Potted Plants" which is general instructions for potting 'plants' (any type) and gives instruction for testing pot soil moisture using 'chopsticks' through the bottom hole of the pot and to 'Avoid watering the plants with a tray under the pot'. ... I use a long stem moisture meter from the top of the pot to the bottom checking multiple locations & depths around the pot.

From my "cursory" reading of those posted articles, it was easy to determine they contained no information applicable to TC plantlets for their current stage of growth. The articles are useless for my needs; a waste of my time to read; and were not applicable to growing TC plantlets to be field ready. ... However, in the above post, I politely thanked Richard for his contribution at the time.

Now to clear something else. 'TC' or 'tissue culture' is a descriptive name indicating how a plant was propagated. The term does not indicate the stage of growth of the plant itself: immature, young, or mature.
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Old 01-05-2017, 06:09 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Default Re: Best Practice to grow TC Bananas

edwmax started this tc thread and got my curiosity up. I have been getting my tcs from wellspring gardens, never intended to get anymore bananas till spring. got my 3 gros Michel yesterday and my camera was in my wifes car. its to dark right now to get proper pictures. thought I would pound out what I found. I have received 13 tc total from wellsprings so far so this makes me an expert right, lol. wellsprings plants came in small pots you might get 2 fingers in. roots were well developed and the plants looked healthy. need to buy some more from florida hills to be fair. the fh tcs came in bags, which was no surprise from the pics from other people. the roots were healthy but for the size plant I was surprised the egg sized ball of soil wasn't thick with roots. might be the type of plant I am dealing with. the plants from both nurseries are about the same size. one was shipped only a cigar leaf and it looks pale. here is a picture of the zabrinas and the sumatranas after unpackaging.
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Old 01-05-2017, 06:12 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Cool Re: Best Practice to grow TC Bananas

fyi edwmax the zabrinas and the sumatranas are in the house and not in my igloo style germinator/wintertime green house. got them almost exactly 2 weeks ago and they are putting on their second leaf. couple of hours when it gets light enough I will do the pics of the gros michels.
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Old 01-05-2017, 08:32 AM   #36 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Best Practice to grow TC Bananas

Thanks for updating your TC progress. This is helping. Your wellsprings plants look like they may have been grown a few weeks after transplanting to the small pots.

I have requested growing info from FloridaHills Nursery. And, I have contacted Banana specialist at the US Ag Research station at Tifton, Ga for their TC growing recommendations. I will post these when received.

To clarify our problem, I'll recap basic TC banana propagation steps for those that don't know or may be interested in growing these small banana TCs.
  • In-Vitro:Plant material is divided multiple times and grown in a nutrient medium in darkness.
  • In-Vitro)The sprout are then grown in a rooting medium under grow lights to get a few (3 to 6) roots about 1 to 1 1/2 inches long. 24 to 48 hours before transferring to the greenhouse, the jar lids are remove to allow the plantlet to acclimate to outside (lab) air at 80% to 90% humidity.
  • Primary Hardening (30 to 45 days): The plantlets are then transplanted to rooting trays (1 1/2" dia x 4" deep cells) for further root development in the greenhouse at about 80 to 90% humidity; & 50% shade: watering & fertilizer is by foliant spray. The humidity is gradually reduce to about 60%
  • Secondary Hardening (30 to 45 days): The plantlet are transplanted to 6" pots with soil & fertilizer and greenhouse/shadehouse at 50% shade & 60% humidity where the plantlets are gradually acclimated to full sunlight and outside conditions. The roots then become primary plant support for water & nutrients. The plantlet is now ready for the ground planting.

Without growing instructions from the nursery or their assurance the plants are 'field ready', then one needs to assume special care is needed to grow these small TC bananas. The small size pots and root balls appear to indicated the plantlets have not received Secondary Hardening necessary.
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Old 01-05-2017, 11:51 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Cool Re: Best Practice to grow TC Bananas

no sir, that's the pots they arrived in. see the tags on each end on the pot, each one has it identifying the plant. gangs all here
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Old 01-05-2017, 02:17 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Default Re: Best Practice to grow TC Bananas

green earth publishing out of mebourne fla. is having a sale. a number of banana plants florida hills is not selling. tcs. shipped the same way as florida hills. a bit more expensive.
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Old 01-05-2017, 05:13 PM   #39 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Best Practice to grow TC Bananas

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no sir, that's the pots they arrived in. see the tags on each end on the pot, each one has it identifying the plant. gangs all here
??? ... I stated those were the pots Wellsprings transferred the plantlets to. I do not know where Wellsprings get their TCs from. I assume from AriStarts (?) If so, Agristarts uses 72 cell trays.

Good looking plants, Beam.
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Old 01-06-2017, 07:31 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Default Re: Best Practice to grow TC Bananas

I could not tell you at this time. agristarts might could be a good guess. you need a license to buy from agristarts. any body know what they charge for a tray. Richard? 250, 350? I assume they will mix. little hard to keep those creatures alive in those small pots. right light, watering, feed, pots.
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