sandy0225

I knew I'd be opening up a "can of worms" when I posted on this subject, but I feel strongly on this subject.
The nursery dealers license in this state is a document that you have to sign that your plants are purchased from other licensed and inspected nurseries, unless you started them from seed. Your nursery is inspected, and also you list your sources where you get your plants from, in case there's any problems with diseases/pests, etc. Like japanese beetles, that is an example of one that was really mishandled!. If an outbreak of something like that occured from plants at your place, they can trace where the plants come from and hopefully take care of the problem before it becomes a real problem for everyone!
Also, there is the issue of state sales taxes and federal taxes. I know the governments take a lot of money, sometimes I don't think they spend it right, but I think that people need to be legitimate and not do things "on the sly". I understand that some people supplement their income by selling on e-bay, but if they aren't paying taxes on the things they are selling and not going through proper channels, that still doesn't make it right. And yes, they probably can afford to charge less than those who are trying to be honest, and paying taxes, and reporting income.
And last, I do think you should be entitled to more of a discount if you are in a business of buying and selling things. Why would anyone buy anything from any nursery or store of any kind if you can buy it wholesale yourself? I can't think of any business that could survive long in that kind of an atmosphere.

__________________
Sandy Burrell



Northern Tropics Greenhouse
1501 East Fuson Road
Muncie, IN 47302
www.northerntropics.com


specializing in bananas, heirloom tomatoes and water gardening plants~
check out our new online store at our website!

momoese

Sandy, it's no can of worms, just a discussion on the finer points of retail.

Two words for you, out sourcing. Companies and individuals are going to do what they can to increase the bottom line, whether it be buying from a wholesaler, not reporting ebay or other internet sales, selling across state lines with no permits, out sourcing etc. I know it sucks but times are a changing and one thing we have learned in this country is to roll with the changes and look to make new opportunities for yourself! It may not be morally sound, but we all need to eat and only the strongest survive, or should I say eat well.

BTW, I need to heed my own advise!

Zacarias

Hey all,

Thanks for the info on Agristarts. Paul, I looked up A&B Tropicals. They look like a great outfit. I'm dying to order a few things from them, but the practical part of me says to wait till spring.
Sandy, I totally understand what you're saying that Agristarts shouldn't be available to everyone. It does make sense and really, I have absolutely no room for 75 nanners, or 75 of anything!!

Zman

jeffreyp

I couldn't agree with you more. I mentioned that (the ebay problem) to the the FL Dept. of Agriculture a few years ago, and I had mentioned a few ebayers out there who seemed to be not licensed but in the end I found out it's just too time consuming for them to "police ebay". It seems they are more concerned about policing us - the licensed nursuries and growers than folks out there on ebay. But what the ebay'ers are doing can result in a huge problem for agricultural interests throughout the country. I am sure plants do enter california via the postal service,ups,fedex, etc. from the sellers on ebay. Let me give you an example, one HUGE problem that could and eventually will affect california is citrus greening. It's a disease spread by an insect that feeds on citrus and like malaria with mosquitos, the psylids regurgitate the pathogens (disease causing bacteria) into the citrus host. All it takes is one infected tree sold on ebay (pysilids and all) to be shipped to california and then the disease is there right now rather than something that would occur many years from now.. You said it very well Sandy on the importance of it all..

As far as banana corm swapping, I see no harm in doing that here in the continental usa. There is no soil being shipped so that minimizes the potential for soil borne diseases. I see the spread of disease or the spread of insects via banana swaps as very low.

ZAC, that's the point why I am offering to split trays, because most people dont want 75 of one particular cultivar. If you split a tray with us, you can get maybe 12 or so banana plants.

Momoese, not sure I agree with that logic of those making potentially immoral financial decisions in life. If only the strongest survive, then hey why not just rob a bank? The USA is still the land of opportunity and there's plenty of ways to make a moral and honest living by playing by the rules.

momoese

jeffreyp, maybe your not hearing me. I never suggested robbing a bank or anything like it. I'm simply saying that people will push the envelope of a set system in order to put food on the table. This includes companies like Agristarts who are in the business of selling plugs, not collecting them. I doubt they really care who buys them so long as they get paid. This is really no different from my corner liqueur store going to Costco and buying cases of soda, beer, chips and whatnot to stock their shelves and resale to make a profit. In the process they cut out the middle man, in this case the beverage or snack food distributor. Should they not be allowed to shop at Costco? Should they have to pay more because someone can prove they intend to re-sell the products for a profit? I'm sure the distributors are just as mad as you and Sandy are.

jeffreyp

I am not mad about agristarts, in fact I am offering to the group here at cost. Momose, my philosophy is that I am all for someone to make or save a buck, my only gripe is toward those who bypass local and federal laws regarding agriculural products. I do things legitimately because it's the right thing to do, I know how to properly treat plants before they go off my premises, and there is little threat of spreading disease or pests. I suspect that alot of the ebay'ers probably don't follow best practices and dont care just as long as they can make a quick buck. I am sure alot of people on this board who are from california would hate to see their citrus go bye-bye because of some idiot on ebay introducing disease into their state. I think the reason behind wholesale is that it gives a manufacturer of a product a way to sell their products in bulk without the costs and hastles of puny individual sales. I really don't look at costco, bj's or sams club as wholesalers in the true sense of the word. I think some of the prices of things I've seen at bj's and costco are pretty much in line with retail. I don't think you're comparing apples to apples in your comparison.
Perhaps a better comparison would be a guy who buys food from costco and then resells it at an unlicensed restaurant, and another guy who does the same thing,(buys the food from costco) does things legitimately and has a licensed restaurant. The guy who has the unlicensed restaurant ends up mishandling the food, has an unclean kitchen, and people die of food poisoning. The licensed guy has an inspector come in (he's required to) and verifies his best and safe practices of handling food and proper food preparation. You see, in the end it's best for everyone. There's sooooo many examples of plant diseases being spread by humans...take into consideration the american chestnut or introducing plants that adversely affect the local environments. I understand agristarts (or other large scale grower's)logic of only selling to growers/nursuries (retail), because it can protect everyone.

I spoke to Agristarts sales dept. and they said "we only sell wholesale. If someone came in and was able to buy them, they would have of had to of shown a tax id. Otherwise it would have been a special case scenario where they knew someone on the inside".

momoese

If this is true then we are wasting time with this thread. Some people have bought from them without a tax Id. Are they (Agristarts) talking out of both sides of their mouth or what?

jeffreyp

I think it's more "or what"...Agristarts policy is wholesale only..

I would also be interested in splitting a try of one of the following..thompsonii, african rhino horn, double mahoi, high Color Mini (super dwarf), French Horn, Dwarf Nino
or Red Iholene

PaulOdin

I was a bit surprised to get such a good price when I saw the bill, which is part of the reason I remember it. Again, this was March '06. There has been a significant price hike since then, and most of the plants used to be $.75.
I've considered getting another flat and raising them through the winter, either indoors or in the green house I haven't started building yet. From my viewpoint it isn't the most practical approach, unless I was doing it as a school fund raiser. I don't have room in my yard for the tc bananas I already have. For me it makes more sense to visit Brenda in the Spring, and buy one (1!) of each cultivar A&B has that I don't, at $10 each. Then I can avoid the first 6 months of growth, and harvest bananas in a year to 18 months.
By the way, this string has me paying attention to my bathtub bananas again, and I transplanted 10 into 3 gal. pots. Eventually I will give the rest to my kids, who have recently bought homes in Birmingham and Ft. Myers, and other relatives around Florida. I took out the best, so w/ the exception of the Mahoi, which are short and stocky, their stems are about 30". The Dwarf Brazilians are close to that, and the tallest Red Iholeni and Pitogo are 3 feet. I'm happy w/ what I have, but will probably be lazy rather than cheap next time.

Paul

momoese

jefferyp, I was just looking at the Stokes Tropicals Ae Ae on ebay and noticed this in the description.

"Plant shipped in pot as shown in the picture. You are bidding on the actual plant that is shown."

Chantell who works for Stokes is now a member here. Her member name is Tropical Lady.

The podium is yours Jeff.

bigdog

Holy Moly, isn't that the truth! Let's take the Hemlock Wooly Adelgid for instance. Introduced to the U.S. in 1924 (from Asia) from a plant collector, it now threatens to totally wipe out the entire Eastern Hemlock population in the Eastern U.S. It's no wonder that plant laws are strict regarding importation and exportation these days! I think we may have thought twice about albizia julibrissin way back when also, if we would have known how invasive it is. Or ailanthus altissima for that matter. Not to mention kudzu. Jeff, I know of a few people, and there probably have been many more (!), that have brought citrus into the state of FL. In fact, they have even gone on public forums such as this one and said so! People need to quit being so blind and careless when it comes to things like this. I also know of some folks who have taken U-Hauls into FL, picked up a huge load of palms and other plants, and not stopped at the Agricultural Inspection Station (as required by law!!). I'm sure that the state that they were transporting the plants to would be unhappy if a fire ant population sprung up out of the blue. It burns me up when I hear about people doing this, and then having the gall to brag about it like there is nothing wrong with what they did!

Wish I could split a tray with you this time, but I'm up to my ears in plants right now. Hit me up in the Spring though...might be interested in Dwarf Brazilian, D.O., or others.

jeffreyp

Sure thing BigD...I'll catch up with you in the spring..

I agree with your post. My folks used to live on a ranch home in Connecticut named 'hemlock hill'. When the whooly adelgig made the scene it has pretty much wiped out the hemlocks there and in the state. I suppose I wouldn't see any harm if someone was coming down from Maine or Minnesota with some potted citrus that they kept in their care for years and brought it into florida (or another citrus growing state). The danger of spreading disease is caused by coming from a state that grows citrus commercially and then moving to another state that grows them commercially. Right now citrus in south florida is totally infected with greening. If someone was to move out to california, louisiana, tx, or arizona with some potted citrus from here, the effects could be devastating..

I would also be interested in splitting a try of one of the following..thompsonii, african rhino horn, double mahoi, high Color Mini (super dwarf), French Horn, Dwarf Nino
or Red Iholene

any takers?

jeffreyp

this is the complete list of what's available from ag statarts..

actually...all of these varieties are available in 72 count starter trays.


Pisang Ceylon (improved mysore)
Pisang Raja
raja puri
red iholene
red jewel
rowe red
sumatrana x gran nain cross
sumatrana zebrina
textilus
thompsonii
truly tiny
williams hybrid
musa Becarrii (Red w/ Green Tips)
musa ornata royal red
african rhino horn
bordelon
browns red
burmese blue
cardaba
double mohoi
dwarf brazilian
dwarf green red
ensete ventricosum
goldfinger
manzano
mona lisa
ice cream
french horn
dwarf cavendish

jeffreyp

Mitchel,

I was mainly referring to and thinking of those on this board who do banana swaps. Shipping bare root corms has little threat of spreading disease from state to state. Shipping plants with soil can be a problem - if the plant material is not handled properly. For example, I doubt any state that's fire ant free would like to have a grower ship a potted plant to their state that's infested with fire ants... I am sure that Stokes does properly treat any plants that go out with soil with an insecticidal soak before they ship to another state. I doubt they'd want the dept of agriculture breathing down their neck because of an issue of improperly handling plant material shipped to another state.

jeffreyp

The trays have arrived... here are some pics....
















Any takers?

MediaHound

Well I have to say that Jeff has an UNBELIEVABLE banana collection.
I stopped by earlier today to pick up my portions of the trays, and got a tour of the collection while I was there. So many awesome bananas I can't even begin to explain it.

You got it going on, Jeff! Congrats on amassing such an amazing plantation.
And thanks for the plants!

__________________
Apologies in advance if I am slow to reply to your PM. I suggest posting in the forums for support if you need something urgent.

Zac in NC

Jeff- Is that first one 'Little Prince'? How is that possible? I know that one is patented. Just curious.

just an icon for the hell of it

Zac

jeffreyp

Thanks for the kind words mediahound.


Zac - Agristarts gets/grows them through an agreement with BallSeed. I think Ballseed holds the patent on it.

Zac in NC

Hmmm. I was under the impression that the only place able to sell that one was Tony Avent of Plant Delights. Interesting.

Zac

jeffreyp

Apparently no...I can resell them just as easily as he can.