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Old 05-08-2008, 09:00 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default African Red propagation experiment

After Musa 'African Red' had a hard time indoors this winter and lost main stem and three pups to rot and Red Spider Mite I decided to experiment.I took the corm out of the pot and washed most of the soil off it , then I put it back in the pot exposed to the air but for small amounts of potting soil that was mixed in with the roots. I thought to treat it like a Dahlia tuber , when you want to propagate a ton of Dahlia shoots you just remove it from the soil and lay it on top of some barely damp compost and cut off shoots as they come along until the energy in the tuber is used up. Well it seems to have worked with the African Red as there are 5 pups coming up at the moment and perhaps more I cannot yet see. I'll start to remove them as they get big and see how many I can get going.
I love to experiment with plants but the plants may not love it so much :-).
Sorry if this has been covered before, but I had not read about it .
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Old 05-09-2008, 12:44 AM   #2 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: African Red propagation experiment

Good post. I've been looking into very similar things. Especially after the banana has fruited and is in the process of decline.

Why use the corm energy to try to maintain leafs and a pseudo-stem that will soon die. Better to invest that energy into pup production, if more plants are something that you would like to have.

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Old 05-09-2008, 01:07 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: African Red propagation experiment

I see it as a ggod way to increase stock and perhaps promote earlier root growth on new pups, I've not cut it yet so the root theory is just that .
I figured if I tricked the corm into a mode where it could die it would do it's best to reproduce and throw a load of pups.I'll cut the first large pup tomorrow and see what else is going on around the corm.
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Old 05-09-2008, 07:03 AM   #4 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: African Red propagation experiment

Very interesting, i have a not so happy basjoo corm i may try this with, thanks for the detail.
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Old 05-09-2008, 07:06 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: African Red propagation experiment

Sounds like fun (for me, not my corm!),I think I'll try this too.
I have a bordelon or two I can sacrifice to the cause.
Thanks for the idea!
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Old 05-09-2008, 07:38 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: African Red propagation experiment

Go for it guys. I was worried my Musa 'African Red' was just going to fade away , that's why I went for the extreme approach. It has taken a few weeks to get a bunch of pups growing. Keeping the corm just a bit damp with a few dry areas is a bit of a calculation, but worth the effort . The best results would come from placing the corm on top of damp compost in the greenhouse , it would be a bit easier to judge the moisture than in a dry house. I'll go and cut that bigger pup now and see whats what.I've noticed you get more shoots from Colocasia tubers when they are not in the soil, I guess it's like Potatoes as well, the way all the eyes sprout when you leave them in the air for too long. However it works it's a good way to get a few more pups for us none Tissue Culture plain old gardeners.
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Old 05-09-2008, 08:08 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: African Red propagation experiment

I cut the pup, I wish I had a working camera at the moment.
There was some new white root growth , not as much as I had hoped . I think I kept it a little too dry, like I said before a corm sitting on top of some damp compost would be the way to go.I kept mine drier than I would have liked too because I had some wet rot and insect activity in the top of the corm when I started the experiment. Now I know this method works I'll try another corm Musa 'Royal Purple' in the greenhouse on top of compost.
I wonder if this method would work with Ensetes? The only one I have that is suffering is Ensete 'Thai Superbum' and that is starting to recover with a new leaf , too rare to experiment with this year I think.
I propagate Tropical Water Lilies using the bare tuber in water method , they normally throw 3 to 4 new plants before the tuber is used up. This takes two or three Winter months for me. Pinch a new plant then wait two weeks to a month or more, pinch another then wait and so on. I'll keep working the 'African Red as long as I can.
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Steve
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Old 05-09-2008, 12:42 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: African Red propagation experiment

Great info! Thanks for sharing!
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Old 05-09-2008, 12:45 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Thumbs up Re: African Red propagation experiment

Pretty cool Steve!
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Old 05-09-2008, 01:32 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: African Red propagation experiment

Thanks guys, I'm sure someone would have done this before, be nice to have a confirmation that it's a good propagation method for increasing stock. The African Red has a pretty big com considering it's a one year old plant. Also it flowered last year after only a few months growth so I'm sure they small pups I'm getting not will also flower by the end of Aug and I can start the whole cycle again.
Gabe any thoughts on exposing corms for propagation?
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Old 05-09-2008, 03:42 PM   #11 (permalink)
 
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Hiya Re: African Red propagation experiment

ok, i already set up my basjoo corm like this in the greenhouse. It will be very interesting to see what happens.
I will report back as soon as something happens
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Old 05-09-2008, 04:15 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: African Red propagation experiment

Not too wet and not too dry and cross fingers
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Old 05-10-2008, 03:26 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: African Red propagation experiment

Steve I have seen this method used on a variegated Rajapuri to promote pups so I see no reason why it shouldnt work on most musa's.

Its having the balls to chop down a perfectly good plant. It made me cringe when I had to chop my Ae Ae in half to overwinter it in my polytunnel.

Is there much of a difference between African Red and Jamaican Red?

I have the Jamaican red and I was told by Myles Challis that it was a prolific pupper. Mine has yet to throw up any pups.

Good luck with the propping program as from your pictures of it in flower it looks a beaut.
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Old 05-30-2008, 03:37 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: African Red propagation experiment

I took my bordelon corm and cut it in half vertically(up and down). The corm was about 4" in diameter before cutting it in half. I put both halves on top of separate pots of soil, I used promix hp, placing them cut side down. I just barely stuck the cut side into the soil, maybe about 1/2-3/4 inches. That was about a month ago. Then I promptly forgot about it really because it's been busy here. Now I checked it today because I was wondering what I did with it.
One pot has three pups coming off the top side of the corm and the other has only one but that's bigger. So it must have decided it was going to die, and it needed to grow--fast!. I didn't keep it real dry because I had it sitting with cannas and etc that I was watering, so sometimes I forgot and hit it with the hose. And I'm sure my hubby watered it when I go to the farmers market on Saturday mornings, he waters everything unless I specifically show it to him and tell him not to....But I tried to keep it kind of dry. So I'd say this might be a good propagation technique.
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Old 05-30-2008, 04:00 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: African Red propagation experiment

Well done Sandy.
So far on the 'African Red' I've got one separated pup and 7 more growing on the corm. I moved the corm to the greenhouse and it has been watered a bit more. It's still sitting almost soilless. So that's 8 pups total so far, I may cut a couple of this week. Pups are more or less spoken for, I may have the odd spare.

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Old 05-30-2008, 04:15 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: African Red propagation experiment

That is cool Steve.... I have a few that didn't fair so well over the Winter.. I scooped the mush out and planted them anyway and I am getting loads of pups...I have never had one Bloom... My GF was one I was counting on this yr.. Still not sure if that will happen but I have 5 new pups the largest is about waist high..
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Old 05-30-2008, 04:46 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: African Red propagation experiment

The 'African Red' was my first flower ever. In Europe I never got a flower on anything but many of the UK guys get flowers on Basjoo and Sikkimensis.
Some of the Ornata types should flower in a Summer. The 'African Red started as a small pup from Gabe in the Spring and flowered in September if I remember right.
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Old 06-01-2008, 09:47 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: African Red propagation experiment

Kylie
i was looking in your public pics and i notes that pic of the passiflora do know the name its pretty unusual looking of not see any with spots
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Old 06-01-2008, 10:00 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: African Red propagation experiment

It resembles a Passiflora nephrotes to me. That's just my opinion, I could be wrong. Although the anthers are not spotted. Hmmmmmm.
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