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Species Bananas Discussions of all the different wild species of banana (non edible), an aspect of the hobby that deserves its own section.


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Old 06-21-2011, 02:01 PM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Default Variation in seed grown M. itinerans "burmese blue"

I've been growing quite a lot of Musa "burmese blue" this year, all from seed. The germination rate was very good. These are all growing nicely. As theyre getting bigger, the variation is getting very pronounced.

This is one of my biggest ones, red-green stemmed, red midrib, not waxy pseudostem, and large wide leaves. There are what I considered 'normal', and what I was expecting them to look like.

Another:

More photos of slightly smaller plants (grown indoors)


However, many look a bit different. The look quite a bit paler, the leaves are more narrow and thinner, with more tapered leaes, a little wax on the pseudostem. I havent got so many photos of these though
this is one that got a bit bleached in the sun- theyre normally more of a pastel green:

Compared to another:

More photos of different plants showing quite extreme examples, these 3 were grown in the same conditions, the one on the right is of the paler type.


There are a few which are even more extreme, this one has really long, narrow leaves:


Lastly, these ones are just weird little runts. These are about 5 months old now, at first they were growing incredible slowly. The leaves are quite thin and delicate, but they look quite colourful at least:
.

Is all this variation normal with seed grown Burmese blue? Anyone seen 'real' Burmese blue plants to confirm theyre right?

I dont really know what Musa 'burmese blue' is. Supposedly a type of Musa itinerans, but does this mean a population? a cultivar? Are they supposed to grow true from seed? Whatever they are, they're quite nice plants, and i will keep many of them. But so much variation would make identification a bit of a headache.

cheers,

Andrew
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Old 06-22-2011, 04:10 AM   #2 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Variation in seed grown M. itinerans "burmese blue"

Hi

Not having seen these plants in the wild I couldn't comment on what they 'should' look like, but I suspect that what you are seeing is a result of cross pollination with another species of banana resulting in hybridisation of some of your seeds. I suspect that some are true burmese blue, but others are not.

They are very different, some seem to be more vigorous than others and there is a dramatic difference in size and colour.

I really like the one with the red psuedostem by the way.
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Old 06-24-2011, 02:12 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Variation in seed grown M. itinerans "burmese blue"

I'm not familiar with the blue Burmese so I can not speak as an authority of that variety of banana. What I can speak about is plants that are grown from seed and the variants that you will find as a result. I dont know of any plants that are 100% true to parent from seed, which is the reason for vegetative propagation, to get actual DNA. I can also tell you that in other plants flower color is altered depending on light intensities. What is red in one place could bloom pink in others, I know this is true in plumeria. You could also have plants that are genetically weak thus long and stretched leaves that are pale in color. My suggestion is to grow them our in the same conditions and be sure that they have adequate nutrients. I wouldn't pile on the fertilizers to try to boost growth. They will only uptake what they can use. My personal method is to use organic humus, leaf molds, and manures in moderation. That way the source of nutrients is natural, and similar to what the banana would encounter in nature. Good luck and keep in touch. Michael
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Old 07-05-2011, 09:22 PM   #4 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Variation in seed grown M. itinerans "burmese blue"

That is really interesting....

I managed to get some seedlings, 2 seeds outta 5 sprouted so far. Ill have to see if I notice any variation.

Where did you get your seeds from?
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Old 08-01-2011, 06:47 PM   #5 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Variation in seed grown M. itinerans "burmese blue"

6 weeks later...

The "runts" are doing well, and looking quite spectacular. They're still alot smaller than they should be, but are doing well, standing up on their own.


One strange thing I have noticed is that these small red ones produce droplets of sticky liquid. There are no insects feeding on the plant, I can quite see why it does it.



The long leaves one does not look so extreme now...(on the left)

It's leaves go back from the petiole, a bit like M. balbasiana



It has just started producing a pup now, I should soon know if the plant lives up to its name, and travels.


A few photos of leaf undersides (This is still the one with long, slender leaves)



This is a different plant, but very similar, except the leaves are a little wider, and blush red when new



Stem, a little waxy.


I still have many more to photograph....
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Old 08-03-2011, 09:20 AM   #6 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Variation in seed grown M. itinerans "burmese blue"

Looking really good

I'm not sure if Burmese Blue produces pups that are a long way from the mother.

Mine has produced 6 pups very close to the mother plant.
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Old 08-03-2011, 11:07 AM   #7 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Variation in seed grown M. itinerans "burmese blue"

I was expecting them to travel, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of them dont!

Do you have any photos of yours?

I have many off-types going spare, there is more variation than I have space for!

I will be interesting to see whether there is variation in coping with dormancy over winter.

Anyway, here's a couple which were planted outside back in April. Its the one with a red pseudostem (I still consider this one as 'normal', although I dont really know what normal is), and the one with the pink midribs. Other plants in the photo include ensete ventricosum, Musa formosana, Canna etc.

The cool, bright conditions of an English summer make the burmese blue look quite different from the ones grown indoors, but they are growing well; comparable to basjoo and sikkimensis.
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Old 08-03-2011, 01:38 PM   #8 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Variation in seed grown M. itinerans "burmese blue"

The photo isn't vey good and doesn't show the mother, but shows the pups

[IMG][/IMG]
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Old 08-03-2011, 02:19 PM   #9 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Variation in seed grown M. itinerans "burmese blue"

That looks amazing! I think mine are a few months behind, quite a few have the first signs of a pup or two forming, they're about 6 or 7 months old.
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Old 08-04-2011, 03:02 PM   #10 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Variation in seed grown M. itinerans "burmese blue"

Yes I was a little amazed, there is 6 in total now. The mother germinated In September last year.
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:57 AM   #11 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Variation in seed grown M. itinerans "burmese blue"

I havnt been on here for a while, so I apoligize if this is a bit late.

I managed to germinate 2 M inrerans (burmese blue). One of the 3 species of banana ive managed to germinate. THe 2 seem slightly different. One having the narrow leaves you mentioned, and one with a very, VERY slight red tinge where the leaf attatches to the psuedostem.

The red tinged one, has wider leaves. They are bold are molted with black blotches along the leaf stem. THey are small still, so I cant say anything till after the summer, when they get some growth..
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Old 09-02-2012, 08:15 PM   #12 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Variation in seed grown M. itinerans "burmese blue"

I have 1-year-old Burmese Blue grew well and were cold-hardy to zone 9.

I had both varaties of this specie, some like Zebra/Blood banana, some were green allover.

Have to see & wait until they flower & fruit in 2-3 years time.
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Old 04-21-2021, 09:02 AM   #13 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Variation in seed grown M. itinerans "burmese blue"

My Musa Burmese blues are from pups, as all seeds are not true to type.
They have a parrot green leaf and charcoal black smudges up the stem. I tried to add the pictures up but it won't allow me to says invalid link.
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Old 07-05-2021, 12:00 PM   #14 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Variation in seed grown M. itinerans "burmese blue"

Hello,

in 2010 I also sown seeds of the burmese blue from rps. Some seeds sprouted from it and each plant was colored differently.
For a long time I thought it could be the F2 generation of a cross and the plants are now splitting up, which is why they appear variable.

Meanwhile I think it is Musa arunachalensis that was delivered as seeds, because I have seen some pictures of the species and they correspond to my plants.
Now after 11 years in Germany, the first flower is coming on one of the plants, I am very curious how it will develop and whether it will bring new knowledge.

the plants also have a high tolerance to frost. In my garden last winter, a plant survived minus 14 degrees Celsius and a week of permafrost.

Has there been more experience with plants in the meantime?

I'll try to post a few pictures later when I figure out how to do this.

Greetings Stefan
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Old 07-19-2021, 03:01 AM   #15 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Variation in seed grown M. itinerans "burmese blue"

Hello,

here are the first pictures of my musas sown as Burmese blue, it shows 2 different clones, one colored like red tiger and one reminiscent of itinerans indian form.








Stefan
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Old 07-26-2021, 07:02 AM   #16 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Variation in seed grown M. itinerans "burmese blue"

Hello,

here are a few more pictures of my plants sown as burmese blue.
you can see the mixture in the young plants.
so far only one of my plants has flowered, unfortunately without producing any fruit.
what it is still remains a mystery to me.
Does anyone have any idea what it could be?
Could it actually be Musa arunachalensis as I suspect?

Here are the pictures















Greetings from Germany
Stefan
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Old 11-22-2021, 11:57 AM   #17 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Variation in seed grown M. itinerans "burmese blue"

Hello, a beautiful plant, yes the seeds are only blue from what I have seen and I have seen a lot of these plants and varieties and only in this color I have seen this variety and yes it is Musa I also have the same
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