Siam Ruby or Red Abyssynian

Andre · 04-27-2012, 10:31 PM

Hello, just registered to the forum, and I am really interested in the red banana plants. I'm in USDA zone 10b but I'm pretty sure the temperature dips into the 30's, so I need to know which of these are hardier. I would rather have leafs in the winter.
Also, I am confused about both specimens, the red abyssinian is listed in some sites as the Ensete ventricosum, and others as Ensete maurelii. So which is it, and is it a hybrid?
As for the siam ruby, I understand its a subspecies of the Musa acuminata? Did it evolve in the wild as a red banana or was it "domesticated into red"?

sunfish · 04-27-2012, 10:45 PM

Musa Siam Ruby - Bananas Wiki

palmtree · 04-27-2012, 10:48 PM

Red Abynssinan bananas are botanically called Ensete ventricosum "Maurelli". Maurelli is the cultivator name. Normal Ensete Ventricosum bananas have green leaves only.
No matter how cold tolerant a banana is, most of them have damaged leaves at about the same temperature. Some of the thicker leafed varieties can handle more frost than the thin ones. Ironically in my experience Musa Basjoos get frost damaged faster than my tropical banana plants even though its a hardy banana that comes up every spring from the ground around here.
I think for cold tolerance the Ensete will be a better choice. They are more vigorous than Siam Ruby bananas. But the Ensete will only live maybe 3-4 years before they flower and die. And they do not pup (well they can but the process is kind of complicated and not really worth it IMO). Siam Rubies are great bananas and they are puppers so you will not have to replace them. They will get damaged by frost (probably faster than Ensete) and they dont get to be as massive as Ensetes, but they are really nice short banana plants that can get pretty nice sized with age.

Ensetes are hardier than Siam Rubys but they both will survive in a zone 10b (and only temperatures in the low 30s or colder will make the leaves look really ugly).

Good luck! Maybe you sould try both Ensete's and Siam Rubys and see which one is your favorite!

sunfish · 04-27-2012, 10:53 PM

Ensete ventricosum 'Atropurpureum'
Ensete ventricosum 'Green Stripe'
Red false banana (Ensete ventricosum 'Maurelii', syn. Musa maurelii)
Ensete ventricosum 'Montbeliardii'
Ensete ventricosum 'Tandarra Red' (syn. Musa 'Tandarra Red')
Ensete ventricosum 'Red Stripe' (syn. Musa 'Red Stripe')
Ensete ventricosum 'Rubra' (syn. Musa ensete 'Rubra')

caliboy1994 · 04-28-2012, 03:28 PM

Red Abyssinian does great here in 10a.

Andre · 04-29-2012, 01:38 AM

Thanks for the replies, that does clear it up for the abyssinian.

Quote:

Originally Posted by palmtree

Red Abynssinan bananas are botanically called Ensete ventricosum "Maurelli". Maurelli is the cultivator name. Normal Ensete Ventricosum bananas have green leaves only.
No matter how cold tolerant a banana is, most of them have damaged leaves at about the same temperature. Some of the thicker leafed varieties can handle more frost than the thin ones. Ironically in my experience Musa Basjoos get frost damaged faster than my tropical banana plants even though its a hardy banana that comes up every spring from the ground around here.
I think for cold tolerance the Ensete will be a better choice. They are more vigorous than Siam Ruby bananas. But the Ensete will only live maybe 3-4 years before they flower and die. And they do not pup (well they can but the process is kind of complicated and not really worth it IMO). Siam Rubies are great bananas and they are puppers so you will not have to replace them. They will get damaged by frost (probably faster than Ensete) and they dont get to be as massive as Ensetes, but they are really nice short banana plants that can get pretty nice sized with age.

Ensetes are hardier than Siam Rubys but they both will survive in a zone 10b (and only temperatures in the low 30s or colder will make the leaves look really ugly).

Good luck! Maybe you sould try both Ensete's and Siam Rubys and see which one is your favorite!

well that is what I'm looking for, the giant bananas. You said they the leaves don't get ugly until the low 30's, so this means they will not be damaged by a night that is 33º?
I already have siam ruby and will end up doing what you suggested anyway, thanks!

caliboy1994 · 04-29-2012, 02:01 AM

I think Red Abyssinian should be fine as long as there is no frost. Siam Ruby I know is less cold hardy, so you might get some damage.

palmtree · 04-29-2012, 10:48 AM

33F is an iffy temperature for Ensetes. If the duration is short they will have little to no damage and even if the duration is longer they still shouldnt be mushy like most bananas get. My basjoo's turn to mush after a frost but Enestes and other thick leaf bananas usually can handle a little lower.

Andre · 04-30-2012, 11:51 PM

talkinga bout leaf damage, my siam ruby has been getting leaf damage. The last leaf is dying out, but a brand new leaf that was coming out yellow, is getting brown edges, and I really doubt its the weather, it has been in the higher 50s recently.

caliboy1994 · 05-07-2012, 02:18 PM

What are the night temperatures like?

Andre · 05-07-2012, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caliboy1994

What are the night temperatures like?

It's in the higher 50s and 60s during the night and around the 70s during the day. I'm afraid it might be disease.
I've been trimming the browning leafs.

caliboy1994 · 05-08-2012, 12:40 AM

It could be stress related. Where are you located? That could rule out some diseases.

Andre · 05-23-2012, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caliboy1994

It could be stress related. Where are you located? That could rule out some diseases.

I am in orange county, souther California.
The browning is not getting better, but I think it might simply the sun shock.

And here are the freshly potted red Abyssinians

caliboy1994 · 05-23-2012, 03:30 PM

It could be a combination of both the sun and low humidity. I hear that Siam Ruby needs high humidity to thrive.

palmtree · 05-23-2012, 05:35 PM

The ensetes look great! I think the siam ruby is definitely seeing some sun damage. The lack of humidity and sun combined can definitely make a banana plant look like that. They may need some more partial shade in Cali because of the dry air. I've seen them in full sun here and even in the southeast and Im guessing the reason for that its the high humidity on the east coast.
Good luck!

HoaNui · 05-24-2012, 04:13 PM

I transplanted my Siam Ruby and it promptly died...

Andre · 05-24-2012, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoaNui

I transplanted my Siam Ruby and it promptly died...

0_o maybe you damaged the roots? Or not enough water? I lik the caique btw, those things are clowns

natej740 · 05-30-2012, 08:50 AM

The ensetes look great...just a heads up, When they get bigger the wind will blow them over in pots. So be careful on windy days.

Andre · 05-30-2012, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by natej740

The ensetes look great...just a heads up, When they get bigger the wind will blow them over in pots. So be careful on windy days.

thanks for the heads up, I have a wind-sheltered spot for both.

caliboy1994 · 05-30-2012, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by palmtree

The ensetes look great! I think the siam ruby is definitely seeing some sun damage. The lack of humidity and sun combined can definitely make a banana plant look like that. They may need some more partial shade in Cali because of the dry air. I've seen them in full sun here and even in the southeast and Im guessing the reason for that its the high humidity on the east coast.
Good luck!

All of my bananas seem to love full sun, and I live inland on top of that, where the temperature varies more widely. They just need to be acclimated first.

04-27-2012, 10:31 PM	#1 (permalink)
Andre Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 8 BananaBucks : 1,572 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 4 Times Was Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Siam Ruby or Red Abyssynian Hello, just registered to the forum, and I am really interested in the red banana plants. I'm in USDA zone 10b but I'm pretty sure the temperature dips into the 30's, so I need to know which of these are hardier. I would rather have leafs in the winter. Also, I am confused about both specimens, the red abyssinian is listed in some sites as the Ensete ventricosum, and others as Ensete maurelii. So which is it, and is it a hybrid? As for the siam ruby, I understand its a subspecies of the Musa acuminata? Did it evolve in the wild as a red banana or was it "domesticated into red"?

04-27-2012, 10:45 PM	#2 (permalink)
sunfish sunfish's Photo Gallery Location: San Diego Find me on the map! Zone: 9-11 Name: Tony Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 15,298 BananaBucks : 547 Feedback: 8 / 100% Said "Thanks" 2,931 Times Was Thanked 16,465 Times in 6,150 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,990 Times	Re: Siam Ruby or Red Abyssynian Musa Siam Ruby - Bananas Wiki __________________ Tony,Thanks

04-27-2012, 10:48 PM	#3 (permalink)
palmtree palmtree 's Photo Gallery Location: New York City Find me on the map! Zone: 7b Name: Alex C Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,006 BananaBucks : 53,783 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 1,483 Times Was Thanked 1,406 Times in 637 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 98 Times	Re: Siam Ruby or Red Abyssynian Red Abynssinan bananas are botanically called Ensete ventricosum "Maurelli". Maurelli is the cultivator name. Normal Ensete Ventricosum bananas have green leaves only. No matter how cold tolerant a banana is, most of them have damaged leaves at about the same temperature. Some of the thicker leafed varieties can handle more frost than the thin ones. Ironically in my experience Musa Basjoos get frost damaged faster than my tropical banana plants even though its a hardy banana that comes up every spring from the ground around here. I think for cold tolerance the Ensete will be a better choice. They are more vigorous than Siam Ruby bananas. But the Ensete will only live maybe 3-4 years before they flower and die. And they do not pup (well they can but the process is kind of complicated and not really worth it IMO). Siam Rubies are great bananas and they are puppers so you will not have to replace them. They will get damaged by frost (probably faster than Ensete) and they dont get to be as massive as Ensetes, but they are really nice short banana plants that can get pretty nice sized with age. Ensetes are hardier than Siam Rubys but they both will survive in a zone 10b (and only temperatures in the low 30s or colder will make the leaves look really ugly). Good luck! Maybe you sould try both Ensete's and Siam Rubys and see which one is your favorite! __________________ Location: New York City, zone 7b

04-27-2012, 10:53 PM	#4 (permalink)
sunfish sunfish's Photo Gallery Location: San Diego Find me on the map! Zone: 9-11 Name: Tony Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 15,298 BananaBucks : 547 Feedback: 8 / 100% Said "Thanks" 2,931 Times Was Thanked 16,465 Times in 6,150 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,990 Times	Re: Siam Ruby or Red Abyssynian Ensete ventricosum 'Atropurpureum' Ensete ventricosum 'Green Stripe' Red false banana (Ensete ventricosum 'Maurelii', syn. Musa maurelii) Ensete ventricosum 'Montbeliardii' Ensete ventricosum 'Tandarra Red' (syn. Musa 'Tandarra Red') Ensete ventricosum 'Red Stripe' (syn. Musa 'Red Stripe') Ensete ventricosum 'Rubra' (syn. Musa ensete 'Rubra') __________________ Tony,Thanks

04-28-2012, 03:28 PM	#5 (permalink)
caliboy1994 <div style="font-style: italic;"><div style="font-style: italic;">&lt;div style=&quot;font-style: italic;&quot;&gt;Tropical fruit maniac&lt;/div&gt;</div></div> caliboy1994's Photo Gallery Location: Santa Clara, CA / Granada Hills, CA Find me on the map! Zone: USDA zone 9b/10a; Sunset zone 15/19 Name: Andreas Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,676 BananaBucks : 52,880 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 955 Times Was Thanked 1,264 Times in 761 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 223 Times	Re: Siam Ruby or Red Abyssynian Red Abyssinian does great here in 10a. __________________ "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson Find me on Photobucket here: http://s1061.photobucket.com/profile/musamaniac

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04-29-2012, 02:01 AM	#7 (permalink)
caliboy1994 <div style="font-style: italic;"><div style="font-style: italic;">&lt;div style=&quot;font-style: italic;&quot;&gt;Tropical fruit maniac&lt;/div&gt;</div></div> caliboy1994's Photo Gallery Location: Santa Clara, CA / Granada Hills, CA Find me on the map! Zone: USDA zone 9b/10a; Sunset zone 15/19 Name: Andreas Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,676 BananaBucks : 52,880 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 955 Times Was Thanked 1,264 Times in 761 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 223 Times	Re: Siam Ruby or Red Abyssynian I think Red Abyssinian should be fine as long as there is no frost. Siam Ruby I know is less cold hardy, so you might get some damage. __________________ "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson Find me on Photobucket here: http://s1061.photobucket.com/profile/musamaniac

04-29-2012, 10:48 AM	#8 (permalink)
palmtree palmtree 's Photo Gallery Location: New York City Find me on the map! Zone: 7b Name: Alex C Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,006 BananaBucks : 53,783 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 1,483 Times Was Thanked 1,406 Times in 637 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 98 Times	Re: Siam Ruby or Red Abyssynian 33F is an iffy temperature for Ensetes. If the duration is short they will have little to no damage and even if the duration is longer they still shouldnt be mushy like most bananas get. My basjoo's turn to mush after a frost but Enestes and other thick leaf bananas usually can handle a little lower. __________________ Location: New York City, zone 7b

04-30-2012, 11:51 PM	#9 (permalink)
Andre Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 8 BananaBucks : 1,572 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 4 Times Was Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Siam Ruby or Red Abyssynian talkinga bout leaf damage, my siam ruby has been getting leaf damage. The last leaf is dying out, but a brand new leaf that was coming out yellow, is getting brown edges, and I really doubt its the weather, it has been in the higher 50s recently.

05-07-2012, 02:18 PM	#10 (permalink)
caliboy1994 <div style="font-style: italic;"><div style="font-style: italic;">&lt;div style=&quot;font-style: italic;&quot;&gt;Tropical fruit maniac&lt;/div&gt;</div></div> caliboy1994's Photo Gallery Location: Santa Clara, CA / Granada Hills, CA Find me on the map! Zone: USDA zone 9b/10a; Sunset zone 15/19 Name: Andreas Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,676 BananaBucks : 52,880 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 955 Times Was Thanked 1,264 Times in 761 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 223 Times	Re: Siam Ruby or Red Abyssynian What are the night temperatures like? __________________ "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson Find me on Photobucket here: http://s1061.photobucket.com/profile/musamaniac

05-08-2012, 12:40 AM	#12 (permalink)
caliboy1994 <div style="font-style: italic;"><div style="font-style: italic;">&lt;div style=&quot;font-style: italic;&quot;&gt;Tropical fruit maniac&lt;/div&gt;</div></div> caliboy1994's Photo Gallery Location: Santa Clara, CA / Granada Hills, CA Find me on the map! Zone: USDA zone 9b/10a; Sunset zone 15/19 Name: Andreas Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,676 BananaBucks : 52,880 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 955 Times Was Thanked 1,264 Times in 761 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 223 Times	Re: Siam Ruby or Red Abyssynian It could be stress related. Where are you located? That could rule out some diseases. __________________ "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson Find me on Photobucket here: http://s1061.photobucket.com/profile/musamaniac

05-23-2012, 03:30 PM	#14 (permalink)
caliboy1994 <div style="font-style: italic;"><div style="font-style: italic;">&lt;div style=&quot;font-style: italic;&quot;&gt;Tropical fruit maniac&lt;/div&gt;</div></div> caliboy1994's Photo Gallery Location: Santa Clara, CA / Granada Hills, CA Find me on the map! Zone: USDA zone 9b/10a; Sunset zone 15/19 Name: Andreas Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,676 BananaBucks : 52,880 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 955 Times Was Thanked 1,264 Times in 761 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 223 Times	Re: Siam Ruby or Red Abyssynian It could be a combination of both the sun and low humidity. I hear that Siam Ruby needs high humidity to thrive. __________________ "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson Find me on Photobucket here: http://s1061.photobucket.com/profile/musamaniac

05-23-2012, 05:35 PM	#15 (permalink)
palmtree palmtree 's Photo Gallery Location: New York City Find me on the map! Zone: 7b Name: Alex C Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,006 BananaBucks : 53,783 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 1,483 Times Was Thanked 1,406 Times in 637 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 98 Times	Re: Siam Ruby or Red Abyssynian The ensetes look great! I think the siam ruby is definitely seeing some sun damage. The lack of humidity and sun combined can definitely make a banana plant look like that. They may need some more partial shade in Cali because of the dry air. I've seen them in full sun here and even in the southeast and Im guessing the reason for that its the high humidity on the east coast. Good luck! __________________ Location: New York City, zone 7b

05-24-2012, 04:13 PM	#16 (permalink)
HoaNui Location: Gardenstown Find me on the map! Zone: 8b Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 77 BananaBucks : 8,510 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 72 Times Was Thanked 51 Times in 26 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 11 Times	Re: Siam Ruby or Red Abyssynian I transplanted my Siam Ruby and it promptly died... __________________ Weather Forecast \|http://www.ardgrain.com/gardenstown-webcam

05-30-2012, 08:50 AM	#18 (permalink)
natej740 natej740's Photo Gallery Location: Chillicothe, Ohio Find me on the map! Zone: 6 Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 497 BananaBucks : 60,269 Feedback: 5 / 100% Said "Thanks" 262 Times Was Thanked 448 Times in 213 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 49 Times	Re: Siam Ruby or Red Abyssynian The ensetes look great...just a heads up, When they get bigger the wind will blow them over in pots. So be careful on windy days.

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