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Species Bananas Discussions of all the different wild species of banana (non edible), an aspect of the hobby that deserves its own section.


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Old 07-16-2008, 08:32 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Musa Nagense Black Stem

I am looking at getting a MUSA NAGENSE BLACK STEM and i was wondering if anyone out there has come accross this type before or has any experience with it? I would be grateful of any advice about it. Thanks Mark
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Old 07-16-2008, 09:14 AM   #2 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Musa Nagense Black Stem

Hi Mark
Is this the one from newforest hostas?
I got one a while ago from them so its still quite small,but its looking alot like the nagensium X from Kev(51st state) which is a similar size and looks pretty much identical.
It looks like it'll be a nice banana once it gets bigger and being as theres only a few left I'd go ahead and get one whilst you still can.
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Old 07-16-2008, 09:16 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Musa Nagense Black Stem

Yeah your are right at the source, thanks for that i could not find alot about them so i was looking up info on them. Thanks for the tip i will get one now. cheers Mark
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Old 07-16-2008, 09:22 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Musa Nagense Black Stem

I looked it up on from that ebay seller, and it's actually just Musa nagesium spelled wrong. The seeds are really easy to sprout, so for cheaper you may want to give that a try. Another thing is if you sprout what is being sold as Musa cheesmanii, and Musa nagesium side by side there is absolutly no difference in appearence.
Musa cheesmanii grown in mostly shade in NW California-

And a shot from above(the big one)-
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Old 07-29-2008, 08:59 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Musa Nagense Black Stem

I have Musa nagensium (europalms.be), Musa nagensium X, Musa nagensium 'Floral Noir' (sunshine-seeds.com), and Musa cheesmani. They sure all still look quite similar at this point. My plants are still young, and haven't been outside through a winter yet.
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Old 07-30-2008, 12:09 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Musa Nagense Black Stem

is either of those varieties cold hardy?...I like the black stem..
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Old 07-30-2008, 12:18 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Musa Nagense Black Stem

I just looked in the WIKI and found no results for Musa nagesium, Anyone have any info?
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Old 07-30-2008, 07:36 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Musa Nagense Black Stem

Does anyone have an idea what SHOULD be the difference between the cheesmanii and nagensium then? Kyle maybe? From literature I don't get a lot of reliable information on identification of these species,...
The real nagensium-seed is supposed to be white?

This was a topic before, but never really got any rocksolid conclusion to it :S
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Old 07-31-2008, 02:15 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Musa Nagense Black Stem

I have sent a couple of e mails to this ebay seller. pointing out to them that this is not a true name and the plant is in fact Musa Nagensium.
I sent them quite a number of photos of both young seedling plants and more mature plants. I was even tempted to buy one and then negative feedback them for misdescription. DO NOT BUY these plants thinking they are something different because they arent.

Are they cold hardy? let you know next year I have 5 or 6 in the ground.

I have Nagensium and Nagensium X (don't know what its x'ed with though) and Cheesmannii. will try and post some pics at some point, but they are very similar. ID is made more difficult in the UK as I haven't yet got them to flower. For detailed descriptions of leaf/petiole shape etc. check out David Constatine's excellent work here...The Musaceae.

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Old 07-31-2008, 03:06 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Musa Nagense Black Stem

Here's the description of Musa nagensium- Musa nagensium
Now the description of Musa cheesmani- Musa cheesmani
From those descriptions it seems like the nagensium isn't in cultivation, and the seeds being sold as Musa nagesium are actually Musa cheesmani.
As far as I know none of the seeds sold as Musa nagensium turned out looking like this awesome plant- Musa nagensium images

Trebrown did import some seeds of a really dark stemmed plant from the area that nagensium grows, but it may have just been another cheesmani, did anyone order any of those seeds and get a sprout or two. It would be pretty easy to tell if it was different than the other ones, because the leafs are so distinct even at an early stage.
Here's a thread on Trebrown, but it seems a jumble of mix up since my M.auranticana from him doesn't have leaves like that at all.
http://www.trebrown.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=302
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Old 07-31-2008, 06:04 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Musa Nagense Black Stem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tropicallvr View Post
Here's the description of Musa nagensium- Musa nagensium
Now the description of Musa cheesmani- Musa cheesmani
From those descriptions it seems like the nagensium isn't in cultivation, and the seeds being sold as Musa nagesium are actually Musa cheesmani.
As far as I know none of the seeds sold as Musa nagensium turned out looking like this awesome plant- Musa nagensium images

Trebrown did import some seeds of a really dark stemmed plant from the area that nagensium grows, but it may have just been another cheesmani, did anyone order any of those seeds and get a sprout or two. It would be pretty easy to tell if it was different than the other ones, because the leafs are so distinct even at an early stage.
Here's a thread on Trebrown, but it seems a jumble of mix up since my M.auranticana from him doesn't have leaves like that at all.
Trebrown Tree Forums - Palms Exotics and Ornamental trees
Not one of my Musa cheesmani from Phil sprouted (yet), which is interesting in itself, seeing as how easy cheesmani seeds usually germinate. I don't think the M. aurantiaca seeds are what they are labeled as either, but it will be interesting to see the flower.

Markku Hakkinen has an article coming out next year, I think, in which he describes Musa nagensium. That should help to clear things up quite a bit.
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Old 08-06-2008, 02:49 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Musa Nagense Black Stem

I guess I'll have to take some pictures;
My cheesmani as well as my nagansiums look the same, black stem and very nice narrow leaves and a waxy substance.
Regards,
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Old 08-06-2008, 02:26 PM   #13 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Musa Nagense Black Stem

I also have some Musa cheesmani seeds that I planted and none have sprouted. I got them from Rare Palm Seeds.
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Old 08-06-2008, 02:43 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: Musa Nagense Black Stem

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Originally Posted by Dean W. View Post
I also have some Musa cheesmani seeds that I planted and none have sprouted. I got them from Rare Palm Seeds.
I am the same here i started my cheesmani seeds about 4 weeks ago and still nothing yet and i got them from rare palm seeds too
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Old 08-09-2008, 10:20 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: Musa Nagense Black Stem

Hi Guys,
This is Phil at Trebrown Nurseries.

I just wanted to point out the fact that I don't claim to be any form of banana expert at all. My expertise lies in palms and cycads.

I also want to point out that all of the Burmese banana seeds that I had in last year... the dark form of Musa cheesmanii, Musa aurantiaca, Musa nagensium (true form), and the exceptionally large form of Musa velutina were all identified by Markku Hakkinen in Finland from pictures and seeds sent to him from myself. He assured me that all his identifications were 100% correct. I have also sent him the Musa nagensium X seeds that we were selling 3 years ago and that I know many people are still selling now. You don't want to question Markku too much on these subjects, he very soon looses patience with you. Therefore I never got a definitive answer as to what the Musa nagensium X seeds were. He just said they are not Musa nagensium.
I, however do tend to agree with some of the comments above in that they are very similar, if not the same as Musa cheesmanii.

Hope this clears things up a little.

Regards,
Phil
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Old 08-09-2008, 02:03 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: Musa Nagense Black Stem

Hi Phil, it's nice to hear from you! Have you got any of the Musa cheesmani seeds to sprout, and if so, how do they look now?

The M. aurantiaca plants from your seed are very nice-looking plants. They don't exactly fit Markku's official description of M. aurantiaca though, but he said it could just be a different variety. I believe his description was from plants in China. Can't wait for it to flower! Have you had any flower yet?

Any new seeds coming any time soon? It's been too long! Best,

Frank
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Old 08-09-2008, 02:27 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: Musa Nagense Black Stem

Thanks for the update Phil.
Even though the Musa aurantiaca don't fit the description I couldn't be happier! It's definatly my favorite plant right now, and I'm getting antsy for a bloom too(three pups now, with main stem at 2+- feet tall).
Hopefully there will be more seeds coming from Burma in the future.
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Old 08-10-2008, 04:28 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: Musa Nagense Black Stem

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilMarkey View Post
Hi Guys,
This is Phil at Trebrown Nurseries.

I just wanted to point out the fact that I don't claim to be any form of banana expert at all. My expertise lies in palms and cycads.

I also want to point out that all of the Burmese banana seeds that I had in last year... the dark form of Musa cheesmanii, Musa aurantiaca, Musa nagensium (true form), and the exceptionally large form of Musa velutina were all identified by Markku Hakkinen in Finland from pictures and seeds sent to him from myself. He assured me that all his identifications were 100% correct. I have also sent him the Musa nagensium X seeds that we were selling 3 years ago and that I know many people are still selling now. You don't want to question Markku too much on these subjects, he very soon looses patience with you. Therefore I never got a definitive answer as to what the Musa nagensium X seeds were. He just said they are not Musa nagensium.
I, however do tend to agree with some of the comments above in that they are very similar, if not the same as Musa cheesmanii.

Hope this clears things up a little.

Regards,
Phil
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Hi guys
I imported 50 x Nagensium X direct from Kenibreed in Kalimpong, India this spring. It's a bit early to distinguish them from the regular Nagensium as mine (from Europalms seed) are still a bit small. The Nagensium seed did differ from Cheesmani though it had a definite white bloom on most of the seeds, though it shared the 'nobbly' appearance. I looked last week and also feel that Cheesmani has a much more upright way of holding its leaves. I think I am growing side by side most of the 'indians' so will try and post some comparitive photos in the wiki.
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Old 08-10-2008, 05:27 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveW View Post
Hi Mark
Is this the one from newforest hostas?
I got one a while ago from them so its still quite small,but its looking alot like the nagensium X from Kev(51st state) which is a similar size and looks pretty much identical.
It looks like it'll be a nice banana once it gets bigger and being as theres only a few left I'd go ahead and get one whilst you still can.
I too bought one from Darren Just incase they were different from my Nagensiums but as you say they are still small. I did also notice that the Red Stemmed Cavendish I bought from them is looking very much like my Basjoo Rubra. So maybe his source has mis led him a bit into thinking they are new strains. They are super condition plants he sells though.

I have just added pictures of Nagensium and cheesmanii ( in pots)to my gallery.

I have placed them side by side to show the difference. My Cheesmanii has a very Black unwaxy trunk where as the Nagensium Is a lighter colour and covered in wax. There are also pictures of the leaves of both types.

They were all grown by me from seed. I can't remember who sold the seed though.

Have a look and see what you think.
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Old 08-12-2008, 12:16 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: Musa Nagense Black Stem

Nice ones Mark. Looks like you got the real thing in that Musa nagensium on the left.
I'll bet the nagensium will prove to be more cold hardy too.
I wonder where you bought the seed for that one from? Did you order any from Trebrown?
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