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Species Bananas Discussions of all the different wild species of banana (non edible), an aspect of the hobby that deserves its own section.


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Old 07-26-2007, 12:24 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: Musa Formosana = Musa Basjoo?

Looks exactly like mine. They don't resemble the musa basjoo we know much, do they. Reminds me more of a "stout" itinerans type, wich is probably exactly what it is. By the way, most of the red on the midribs have faded here.

Compared to other species, this one seems to grow well in our coolish summer climate.
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Old 12-17-2007, 06:47 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: Musa Formosana = Musa Basjoo?

I took some pics today of both of my Musa formosana bananas. They don't really look much like Musa basjoo or M. itinerans, IMHO. The leaves are held at a very upright angle, like M. textilis.

The larger one:


Slightly smaller plant:



Pseudostem closeup. No petiole "wings" like M. basjoo has.



Leaf closeup. Notice how the emerging leaf is still tucked inside the most recently unfurled leaf. Not a characteristic of M. basjoo. Looks nothing like a Musa itinerans either, or M. balbisiana.



Any ideas?? I really am doubting whether or not this is the real Musa formosana.
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Old 01-09-2009, 10:58 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: Musa Formosana = Musa Basjoo?

Is there any clearance yet?
And where did you guys get the plants? I only know of sunshine seeds selling them, but someone told me that was NOT formosana,...
Kind regards,
Remko.
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Old 01-17-2009, 11:21 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: Musa Formosana = Musa Basjoo?

Hi,

yes, I have Musa formosana seeds in Brazil. I could sent them to Helton to Frutas Raras, he will germinate them for me, I will try to breed with Musa formosana, e.g. Musa formosana x sikkimensis, balbisiana x formosana and more. I hope, the seed will germinate in Brazil.

Best wishes
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Old 01-17-2009, 11:49 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Default Re: Musa Formosana = Musa Basjoo?

The ones in my pictures came from sunshine-seeds.com, and are not Musa formosana. It is a still as yet, an undescribed species from Taiwan. Sunsine Seeds got the seeds from Phil Markey from Trebrown Nurseries (UK), who collected them himself in Taiwan.
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Old 05-28-2009, 12:10 AM   #26 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Musa Formosana = Musa Basjoo?

Musa formosana is not the same as Musa basjoo. The easiest way to tell is to look at the seeds! Apparently some M. balbisiana var. liukiuensis seed was once sold as M. formosana seed, so in this photo I show seed from these three species, plus M. velutina.
The M. formosana seed comes from Phil Markey at Trebrown Nurseries. The rest I collected. I'm putting photos of the M. basjoo plants from which I collected this seed, so that you can check that they really are M. basjoo seed. I've already uploaded photos of M. balbisiana var. liukiuensis.
Chiu et al (2004) distinguished between M. formosana and M. basjoo in a number of ways, including seed shape, but did not make clear the great size difference!
(By the way, nobody else seems to put copyright marks on their photos. Is it unnecessary? It's irritating to do all the time!)




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Old 05-28-2009, 04:13 AM   #27 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Musa Formosana = Musa Basjoo?

Hello Mathew,

Here is Stan=Myuchan of Shizuoka City and I didn't imagine that I meet you
here on this forum, but it is very nice to meet you here.

From my observation the distinctive points of differences between M. Basjoo
and other musas are:

1. The colour of the flower of Musa Basjoo is yellow/dark yellow, while other
musas' colour is red/purple red.
2 There are lots of white waxy powder on the pseudostems of other musas,
but there is absolutely no powder at all or negligible amount of powder on
the psetem of M.Basjoo.

As for the copyright of the individual photos, I honestly don't know if it is
necessary or not, but I have posted them without such declaration.

See you again also on the forum in Japan.

stan
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Old 05-28-2009, 06:27 AM   #28 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Musa Formosana = Musa Basjoo?

Hi Stan,
Hisashiburi! Maybe this is a good place to ask you, does M. basjoo manage to fruit and set seed as far north as Shizuoka? I expect they manage to flower, but wouldn't the winter damage them too much for successful fruiting? And are basho plants quite common up there? Down here a fruiting banana that looks just like M. balbisiana is I think more common (at least along the coast). Inland I have seen more basho.
Matthew
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Old 05-28-2009, 02:11 PM   #29 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Musa Formosana = Musa Basjoo?

Frank- my Cavendish leaves remain indented like that until they're larger.
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Old 05-28-2009, 06:17 PM   #30 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Musa Formosana = Musa Basjoo?

Hi Matt,

Here in Shizuoka district in Japan it is quite common to observe Basjoos
planted in the garden and even wild on the fields, and if they flower in good
timing early in the spring and the pollination is duely performed, they can set
fruits in the autumn.

On the other hand, it was quite new for me to know that in your place in
Kyushu districft, M. Balbisiana is more common than Basjoo is.
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Old 05-28-2009, 07:49 PM   #31 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Musa Formosana = Musa Basjoo?

Sorry, when I wrote, "Down here a fruiting banana that looks just like M. balbisiana is I think more common (at least along the coast)." I meant to say an eating banana (i.e. seedless). I'm not sure what variety it is. But it must have a lot of balbisiana in it, and may even be a seedless BB. I talked to one owner, and (as far as I could make out through his Kagoshima dialect!) he said that about fifty years ago they were planted by the local government along the national road, and at some point (this was the bit I didn't understand - maybe after a re-routing of the road?) they were freely? distributed to locals who wanted one.
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Old 05-28-2009, 09:05 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Default Re: Musa Formosana = Musa Basjoo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbungalow View Post
Some people say Musa Formosana is musa basjoo.

Now, the englishmen at Kew(?) has given musa formosana species status.

Would this be correct? What then, are the differences between them?
Formosa us, it is the same - basjoo gotta make your own decisions.

(Sorry for the play on words, but I just couldn't hold back.)
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Old 05-28-2009, 09:16 PM   #33 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Musa Formosana = Musa Basjoo?

Musa the time these threads have no humour, but that was Brilliant!
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Old 05-28-2009, 10:04 PM   #34 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Musa Formosana = Musa Basjoo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Turner View Post
Sorry, when I wrote, "Down here a fruiting banana that looks just like M. balbisiana is I think more common (at least along the coast)." I meant to say an eating banana (i.e. seedless). I'm not sure what variety it is. But it must have a lot of balbisiana in it, and may even be a seedless BB. I talked to one owner, and (as far as I could make out through his Kagoshima dialect!) he said that about fifty years ago they were planted by the local government along the national road, and at some point (this was the bit I didn't understand - maybe after a re-routing of the road?) they were freely? distributed to locals who wanted one.
Hi Matt,
It makes me more interested in what you let me know of the fact that a
fruiting(seedless eating)banana that looks just like M. Balbisiana is more
common down there in Kagoshima. If it is possible, can you show us its
photos of its blossoms and the fruits so that we may be able to guess what
variety is.
The musa must be very cold hardy as they stood here for fifty years.
I want to know what it is!

Stan
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Old 07-03-2009, 05:35 PM   #35 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Musa Formosana = Musa Basjoo?

Musa basjoo Sakhalin is not from the Island Sakhalin, it comes from a Russian guy called Sakhalin. The origin of Musa basjoo is situated in Yunnan and Sichuan in China. It is the most northerly growing wild banana wich explaines its coldhardiness. Its is grown in many parts of China and from there it has been introduced in Japan several centuries ago. And from there it got to Europe in the 19e centuries. It has been described by von Siebold.

P.s. Saporro lays on Hokkaido.

Alexander
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Old 07-03-2009, 07:47 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Default Re: Musa Formosana = Musa Basjoo?

I just got the recent introduction of Musa basjoo 'Formosiana', and the seeds are just like the ones in Matt's picture. The only thing that makes me wonder is that in the description of Musa formosiana it says the only difference between the two types is the color of the bracts, and it doesn't mention differences in seed size.
Musa basjoo var formosana
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Old 07-03-2009, 09:14 PM   #37 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Musa Formosana = Musa Basjoo?

There is a four-way confusion here between the species Musa basjoo, Musa itinerans, Musa formosana and Musa balbisiana.

David Constantine's site is usually very reliable, but he is obviously wrong to suggest that Musa formosana is similar to Musa basjoo. They are very different plants, not least being the huge difference in seed size and shape. I don't think M. basjoo's natural range extends anywhere near Taiwan either.

Musa formosana is however apparently very closely related to Musa itinerans, so much so that Hakkinen considers it to be the same species. I think he has given the name Musa itinerans var. itinerans to the Taiwanese plant. Others disagree and think Musa formosana should still stand as a separate, though closely related, species.

The final confusion comes from Musa balbisiana seed once being inadvertently sold as M. formosana seed. These plants arguably look similar (don't all bananas?), and both are found in Taiwan, but the difference in seed again makes differentiation conclusive.

Summary: Musa basjoo var. formosana is clearly an erroneous name, and Musa basjoo is most definitely not the same as Musa formosana. Musa balbisiana is also definitely not the same as Musa formosana (or M.basjoo, with which it too has been confused!). Whether Musa formosana is a distinct species, or whether it is a form of Musa itinerans, and if so whether it should really have a name such as Musa itinerans var. formosana rather than var. itinerans are matters still worth arguing about.
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Old 07-19-2009, 04:04 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Default Re: Musa Formosana = Musa Basjoo?

Just to clarify here.

I think David Constantine may well have been trying to draw a distinction between regular M. Basjoo and M. Basjoo var. Formosana, (whether this is correct or not I couldn't say).

This is distinct from M. Formosana. I am somewhat surprised that this is suggested to be Itinerans var. itinerans, which with it's running suckers should be fairly distinctive.

also native to Taiwan is M. Balbisiana var. Liukiuensis (the seeds were originally erroneously sold as M. Formosana)

whether and which of the Itinerans is over there is unclear.

simple eh!
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Old 07-19-2009, 05:43 PM   #39 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Musa Formosana = Musa Basjoo?

Quote:
I think David Constantine may well have been trying to draw a distinction between regular M. Basjoo and M. Basjoo var. Formosana, (whether this is correct or not I couldn't say).

This is distinct from M. Formosana.
David Constantine was trying to draw a distinction between regular M. basjoo and M. basjoo var. formosana. But that is not distinct from M. formosana. Musa basjoo var. formosana is a synonym for Musa formosana. Your comment about the remote suckering of M. itinerans is one of the reasons that some people refuse to accept that M. formosana (= M.basjoo var. formosana) might itself be a synonym for Musa itinerans var. itinerans.

However you are right to suggest that M. balbisiana should be written as M. balbisiana var. liukiuensis (as it was further down this series of posts), when it refers to form on Taiwan and in the Ryukyus.
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Old 07-19-2009, 06:52 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Default Re: Musa Formosana = Musa Basjoo?

I'm pretty sure that Musa balbisiana var. liukiuensis was introduced to Taiwan, so it isn't native there. I have seen a paper about it.

Kev, Matt said that it might be considered to be M. itinerans var. formosana, if I read his post right. According to several printed sources, M. formosana has running rhizomes, like M. itinerans. However, according to Phil Markey, who collected the seeds, it does NOT! Maybe it is an intermediate runner, sort of like how M. basjoo can send out pups a good little ways when mature? I guess there is only one way to find out...germinate these seeds and grow them on!

Frank
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