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Species Bananas Discussions of all the different wild species of banana (non edible), an aspect of the hobby that deserves its own section.


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Old 09-10-2008, 06:31 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Musa dasycarpa given priority over M. velutina

This is another interesting article published by Markku Hakkinen. It seems that the name Musa dasycarpa now is given priority over Musa velutina, based on the fact that Kurz's description in 1867 was valid enough. Wendland and Drude described Musa velutina in 1875. Baker incorrectly gave Musa velutina priority in 1893, in his synopsis of banana.

(Hakkinen, 2008).

http://www.plantsystematics.com/qika...g/aps07115.pdf

So, now you have to call your Musa velutina...Musa dasycarpa! I think this is one of those cases where this name will never catch on, seeing as how widespread M. velutina is in cultivation, and how common it is. I'll start calling it M. dasycarpa though, lol. Just cuz I'm a plant geek!
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Old 09-10-2008, 06:39 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Musa dasycarpa given priority over M. velutina

Musa Dasycarpa it is! I will follow suit here. It's the right thing to do.

BTW, I don't know if he will respond or whether he would have any interest, but I emailed an invitation to Markku Hakkinen to join the org. Perhaps someone has already done so, but it never hurts to ask, right?
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Old 09-10-2008, 07:50 PM   #3 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Musa dasycarpa given priority over M. velutina

That is about the only banana I can pronounce correctly and then you go and blow it out of the water for me!!! Would you like to break it down for me so I can say it? If not, I'm sticking with velutina, dang it!!!! LOL I would like to know how to pronounce it though...
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Old 09-11-2008, 12:36 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Musa dasycarpa given priority over M. velutina

So after calling it velutina for 115 years why change it now?
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Old 09-11-2008, 12:43 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Musa dasycarpa given priority over M. velutina

Dasycarpa - "hairy fruit"
Pronunciation guide:
Garden Dictionary Word: dasycarpa
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Old 09-11-2008, 01:03 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Musa dasycarpa given priority over M. velutina

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGDAWG69 View Post
So after calling it velutina for 115 years why change it now?
In taxonomy, whichever named is published first for a given species is supposed to have priority over any following publications. M. dasycarpa was published and described before M. velutina, which ended up being the same plant. Basically, through some errors and oversights many decades ago, the name M. velutina stuck while M. dasycarpa was ignored. According to international rules of botanical nomenclature, M. dasycarpa should be the proper name for the species.
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Old 09-11-2008, 12:41 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Musa dasycarpa given priority over M. velutina

What Gabe said.



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Old 09-11-2008, 01:08 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Musa dasycarpa given priority over M. velutina

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe15 View Post
In taxonomy, whichever named is published first for a given species is supposed to have priority over any following publications. M. dasycarpa was published and described before M. velutina, which ended up being the same plant. Basically, through some errors and oversights many decades ago, the name M. velutina stuck while M. dasycarpa was ignored. According to international rules of botanical nomenclature, M. dasycarpa should be the proper name for the species.
I can't wait to see someone on Ebay hawking it as a new rare pink banana
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Old 09-11-2008, 02:11 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Musa dasycarpa given priority over M. velutina

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I can't wait to see someone on Ebay hawking it as a new rare pink banana
Introducing...the new rare pink banana: musa dasycarpa. This recently discovered banana is very rare in cultivation and is a must-have for any banana collector. From the high mountains in Bangladesh, this banana has outstanding and unique qualities unlike any other banana...
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Old 09-12-2008, 12:55 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Musa dasycarpa given priority over M. velutina

Price $25 for 2 seeds
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Old 09-12-2008, 04:53 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Musa dasycarpa given priority over M. velutina

Quote:
Originally Posted by austinl01 View Post
Introducing...the new rare pink banana: musa dasycarpa. This recently discovered banana is very rare in cultivation and is a must-have for any banana collector. From the high mountains in Bangladesh, this banana has outstanding and unique qualities unlike any other banana...
"high mountains in bangladesh", thats a bit like the high montains in new orleans isnt it If I had a spare pup I'd list it just for the hell of it. I was at a well respect specialist UK nursery a couple of weeks ago who were still selling M Hookerii. I'll change my own labels over but this is ridiculous and will never catch on in the nursery trade, more confusion..
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Old 09-12-2008, 02:13 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Musa dasycarpa given priority over M. velutina

You know I have some M. dasycarpa seeds left over, maybe I will list them on ebay. Anyone want to write the ad for me? Austin had a good start. Whatever I get for them, I will donate to the org, less my costs.
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Old 09-23-2008, 12:57 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: Musa dasycarpa given priority over M. velutina

Personally, I think we should all call it dasycarpa. If we refuse to then it really won't ever catch on. That's how incorrect names persist. When I first started growing and collecting bananas back in about 2001, my very first banana was Musa laterita, but everyone called it M. ornata. Once I learned it was really laterita, I made the change, and made sure I always called it that here in any threads I posted about it. I feel doing so helps to educate everyone and really, once you start calling it by it's real name, it only takes a few times before you start getting comfortable with it. I'm with Bigdog-maybe I'm a plant geek, but have a degree in horticulture and having learned botanical nomenclature it college, I think it's the right thing to do as well.
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Old 09-24-2008, 12:17 AM   #14 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Musa dasycarpa given priority over M. velutina

I heard this today and cracked up !
What Goes Into Naming A New Species? A Lot : NPR
It was an informative show. There is a full audio transcript on the page too.
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Old 09-24-2008, 10:29 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: Musa dasycarpa given priority over M. velutina

Quote:
Originally Posted by tophersmith View Post
I can't wait to see someone on Ebay hawking it as a new rare pink banana
well i tell you what.....if there gonna post it on e-bay....im glad i got mine last week before the price went up to 250.00 like the ae ae and her seeds! rotflmao! by the way i have changed the tag on mine to reflect the name changes....heck i still call them the pink banana. lol.
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Old 09-24-2008, 04:42 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: Musa dasycarpa given priority over M. velutina

In the article, Hakkinen does mention conserving the name Musa velutina, for just this reason: It's been around for over 100 years! This is much different than the recent confusion with Musa yunnanensis/itinerans, especially since M. yunnanensis had not yet been described when people were selling seeds of it, labeled as itinerans. M. velutina is one of the most common ornamentals, I'd venture to guess that it's probably THE most popular ornamental banana there is. If one were to label plants for display, say in a botanical garden or even in a home garden, you might give Musa dasycarpa big letters, and then say that M. velutina is a synonym. Personally, I don't think M. dasycarpa will EVER catch on, and that's just how it is. This is partly Kurz's fault, for giving a half-assed description (about all he said of it was that the fruit was hairy), and partly Baker's fault for not doing his research very well and giving the wrong name priority. Nevertheless, all of those fine folks are dead, and here we are. And in another 100 years, we'll all be dead too, and people will still be calling it Musa velutina, LOL!
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Old 09-24-2008, 05:19 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: Musa dasycarpa given priority over M. velutina

Hi Frank, that may be true

but

I changed the labels on mine all the same LOL
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