Bananas.org

Welcome to the Bananas.org forums.

You're currently viewing our message boards as a guest which gives you limited access to participate in discussions and access our other features such as our wiki and photo gallery. By joining our community, you'll have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload photos, and access many other special features. Registration is fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Go Back   Bananas.org > Banana Forum > Species Bananas
The Facebook Platform
Register Photo Gallery Classifieds Wiki Chat Map Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Species Bananas Discussions of all the different wild species of banana (non edible), an aspect of the hobby that deserves its own section.


Members currently in the chatroom: 0
The most chatters online in one day was 17, 09-06-2009.
No one is currently using the chat.

Reply   Email this Page Email this Page
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-27-2008, 07:04 PM   #1 (permalink)
many 'naners, little time
 
51st state's Avatar
 
Location: salisbury, UK
Zone: 8b ish
Name: Kev
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 465
BananaBucks : 195,941
Feedback: 3 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 202 Times
Was Thanked 245 Times in 119 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
Default Flaviflora and Thomsonii differences?

they are so not the same plant... Thomsonii has red undersides for a start.
__________________
a>
51st state is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To 51st state

Join Bananas.org Today!

Are you a banana plant enthusiast? Then we hope you will join the community. You will gain access to post, create threads, private message, upload images, join groups and more.

Bananas.org is owned and operated by fellow banana plant enthusiasts. We strive to offer a non-commercial community to learn and share information. Receive all three issues from Volume 1 of Bananas Magazine with your membership:
   

Join Bananas.org Today! - Click Here


Sponsors

Old 10-27-2008, 07:27 PM   #2 (permalink)
The causasian Asian!
 
Chironex's Avatar
 
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
Zone: I have no idea
Name: Scot
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,788
BananaBucks : 60,784
Feedback: 9 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 4,544 Times
Was Thanked 1,375 Times in 793 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 609 Times
Send a message via MSN to Chironex Send a message via Yahoo to Chironex
Default Re: Flaviflora and Thomsonii differences?

Kev, I have these in my germinator and just had the first sprout of thomsonii pop up this morning. where did you find the flaviflora? I want to try those as well.
The ingens seeds are planted in various media along with 5 of them in embryo rescue. So far, not much to report, but only one had contamination to date. Keep your fingers crossed!
__________________
Scot


Click for Jakarta, Indonesia Forecast
Chironex is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To Chironex
Old 10-28-2008, 02:49 PM   #3 (permalink)
many 'naners, little time
 
51st state's Avatar
 
Location: salisbury, UK
Zone: 8b ish
Name: Kev
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 465
BananaBucks : 195,941
Feedback: 3 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 202 Times
Was Thanked 245 Times in 119 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
Default Re: Flaviflora and Thomsonii differences?

Hi Scot
from this guy in holland but he's not listing any at present. might be worth asking him though.
__________________
a>
51st state is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To 51st state
Said thanks:
Old 10-28-2008, 02:51 PM   #4 (permalink)
many 'naners, little time
 
51st state's Avatar
 
Location: salisbury, UK
Zone: 8b ish
Name: Kev
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 465
BananaBucks : 195,941
Feedback: 3 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 202 Times
Was Thanked 245 Times in 119 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
Default Re: Flaviflora and Thomsonii differences?

it would help if i added the link

SAGOFARM: Wij verkopen Banaanachtigen, Trachycarpus, Koudebestendige Bananen. eBay Winkel

don't buy no dodgy seeds you know what the dutch are like
__________________
a>
51st state is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To 51st state
Said thanks:
Old 10-28-2008, 05:47 PM   #5 (permalink)
The causasian Asian!
 
Chironex's Avatar
 
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
Zone: I have no idea
Name: Scot
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,788
BananaBucks : 60,784
Feedback: 9 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 4,544 Times
Was Thanked 1,375 Times in 793 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 609 Times
Send a message via MSN to Chironex Send a message via Yahoo to Chironex
Default Re: Flaviflora and Thomsonii differences?

Guess I will have to wait for the scouser to get more then.
__________________
Scot


Click for Jakarta, Indonesia Forecast
Chironex is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To Chironex
Sponsors

Old 10-28-2008, 06:44 PM   #6 (permalink)
many 'naners, little time
 
51st state's Avatar
 
Location: salisbury, UK
Zone: 8b ish
Name: Kev
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 465
BananaBucks : 195,941
Feedback: 3 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 202 Times
Was Thanked 245 Times in 119 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
Default Re: Flaviflora and Thomsonii differences?

I should have some pups next year. I'll send you one..., you can TC it.
__________________
a>
51st state is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To 51st state
Said thanks:
Old 10-28-2008, 09:10 PM   #7 (permalink)
The causasian Asian!
 
Chironex's Avatar
 
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
Zone: I have no idea
Name: Scot
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,788
BananaBucks : 60,784
Feedback: 9 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 4,544 Times
Was Thanked 1,375 Times in 793 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 609 Times
Send a message via MSN to Chironex Send a message via Yahoo to Chironex
Default Re: Flaviflora and Thomsonii differences?

That would be great Kev, thank you!
__________________
Scot


Click for Jakarta, Indonesia Forecast
Chironex is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To Chironex
Old 10-29-2008, 01:15 AM   #8 (permalink)
Moderator

 
Gabe15's Avatar
 
Location: Oahu, Hawaii
Zone: 12
Name: Gabe
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,531
BananaBucks : 313,924
Feedback: 5 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 1 Times
Was Thanked 6,699 Times in 1,815 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 8 Times
Default Re: Flaviflora and Thomsonii differences?

The true M. flaviflora has not been seen in a long time. Simmonds had it in Trinidad during his time, but his collection is mostly gone from what I have heard. Who knows what the M. flaviflora on the market is though. In addition, a new species M. chunii appears to be similar to what M. flaviflora is supposed to look like.
__________________
Growing bananas in Colorado, Hawaii and Washington since 2004.
Gabe15 is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To Gabe15
Said thanks:
Old 10-29-2008, 03:00 PM   #9 (permalink)
many 'naners, little time
 
51st state's Avatar
 
Location: salisbury, UK
Zone: 8b ish
Name: Kev
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 465
BananaBucks : 195,941
Feedback: 3 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 202 Times
Was Thanked 245 Times in 119 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
Default Re: Flaviflora and Thomsonii differences?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe15 View Post
The true M. flaviflora has not been seen in a long time. Simmonds had it in Trinidad during his time, but his collection is mostly gone from what I have heard. Who knows what the M. flaviflora on the market is though. In addition, a new species M. chunii appears to be similar to what M. flaviflora is supposed to look like.
Hi Gabe
Aaah, not quite correct. It features in H J Noltie's Flora of Bhutan (1994). Along with a checklist for the taxonomic differences between Flaviflora and Thomsonii.
As to the Flaviflora seeds which were on the market, whilst I cannot be certain what mine is (yet) I do know what it isnt. I'll just have to hope i can get it to flower next year. I have e mailed the seed supplier in holland for details of the provenance of the seeds.

Noltie also refers to at least one other as yet unidentified Rhodochlamys species and speculates that "several other species of this section are highly likely to occur in Bhutan"

I can't open the e papers on Musa Chunii. I would be interested in seeing them if you could PM or email them to me. to see how the characteristics differ.
__________________
a>
51st state is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To 51st state
Said thanks:
Old 10-29-2008, 03:28 PM   #10 (permalink)
The causasian Asian!
 
Chironex's Avatar
 
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
Zone: I have no idea
Name: Scot
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,788
BananaBucks : 60,784
Feedback: 9 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 4,544 Times
Was Thanked 1,375 Times in 793 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 609 Times
Send a message via MSN to Chironex Send a message via Yahoo to Chironex
Default Re: Flaviflora and Thomsonii differences?

Same here, I would like to see these papers. Thanks
__________________
Scot


Click for Jakarta, Indonesia Forecast
Chironex is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To Chironex
Old 10-29-2008, 05:23 PM   #11 (permalink)
Moderator

 
Gabe15's Avatar
 
Location: Oahu, Hawaii
Zone: 12
Name: Gabe
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,531
BananaBucks : 313,924
Feedback: 5 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 1 Times
Was Thanked 6,699 Times in 1,815 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 8 Times
Default Re: Flaviflora and Thomsonii differences?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 51st state View Post
Hi Gabe
Aaah, not quite correct. It features in H J Noltie's Flora of Bhutan (1994). Along with a checklist for the taxonomic differences between Flaviflora and Thomsonii.
As to the Flaviflora seeds which were on the market, whilst I cannot be certain what mine is (yet) I do know what it isnt. I'll just have to hope i can get it to flower next year. I have e mailed the seed supplier in holland for details of the provenance of the seeds.
You're right, I was thinking of M. sanguinea which has not been seen. M. flaviflora, being better documented than species like M. sanguinea, is still somewhat unknown in the horticulture trade and even in botanic gardens, and I find it doubtful that a seed company would be selling something such as M. flaviflora true to its name, but you never know. Markku noted that there was a seed company from NE India selling seeds with pictures of his new M. chunii. I'll ask Markku about their relationship and the status of M. flaviflora. PM or email me, whoever would like to see the article.
__________________
Growing bananas in Colorado, Hawaii and Washington since 2004.
Gabe15 is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To Gabe15
Said thanks:
Old 10-30-2008, 11:21 AM   #12 (permalink)
Moderator

 
bigdog's Avatar
 
Location: Smyrna, TN
Zone: 7a
Name: Frank
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,986
BananaBucks : 474,481
Feedback: 7 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 195 Times
Was Thanked 1,630 Times in 455 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 131 Times
Send a message via AIM to bigdog Send a message via MSN to bigdog
Default Re: Flaviflora and Thomsonii differences?

I've seen the M. chunii article, and it looks almost exactly like what some were calling Musa sp. 'Violet' (and maybe still are?) The same picture is on the tropengarten website, but he lists it as a hybrid between M. rosacea and M. acuminata subsp. burmannicoides. Kenibreed has what looks like the same plant on their website also.

Not sure if this link will work, since I am on a school computer right now and have access to scientific journals here, but here is the link to Hakkinen's M. chunii article, complete with pics.

Frank

BTW, in another recent article, Hakkinen lists M. thomsonii as a synonym for M. flaviflora, or vice-versa...can't remember.
bigdog is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To bigdog
Said thanks:
Old 10-30-2008, 05:56 PM   #13 (permalink)
many 'naners, little time
 
51st state's Avatar
 
Location: salisbury, UK
Zone: 8b ish
Name: Kev
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 465
BananaBucks : 195,941
Feedback: 3 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 202 Times
Was Thanked 245 Times in 119 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
Default Re: Flaviflora and Thomsonii differences?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdog View Post

BTW, in another recent article, Hakkinen lists M. thomsonii as a synonym for M. flaviflora, or vice-versa...can't remember.

Yes thats what really got me going... my message to Mr Hakkinen is... read the taxonomic descriptions for these plants especially in 'flora of bhutan' or look at my plants, they are no way the same.
I really dont understand how things stand here

flaviflora does not = thomsonii any more than Nagensium = Cheesmanii

but he says it does and who are we to question that...
__________________
a>
51st state is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To 51st state
Said thanks:
Old 10-30-2008, 06:27 PM   #14 (permalink)
Moderator

 
Gabe15's Avatar
 
Location: Oahu, Hawaii
Zone: 12
Name: Gabe
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,531
BananaBucks : 313,924
Feedback: 5 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 1 Times
Was Thanked 6,699 Times in 1,815 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 8 Times
Default Re: Flaviflora and Thomsonii differences?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 51st state View Post
Yes thats what really got me going... my message to Mr Hakkinen is... read the taxonomic descriptions for these plants especially in 'flora of bhutan' or look at my plants, they are no way the same.
I really dont understand how things stand here

flaviflora does not = thomsonii any more than Nagensium = Cheesmanii

but he says it does and who are we to question that...
What you have to understand is, there is no reason that the plant you have as M. flaviflora is the same as what was originally described as M. flavlifora, and the same goes with M. thomsonii.

Also, a common phenomenon in wild Musa is the presence of multiple varieties of a species (due to relatively quick life cycles), which constitute a rather wide range of diversity, and may look completely different from each other, yet when compared with other species in a given region, it will become apparent that they indeed are closely related and can be classified under a single species.

Just because you have a plant that was sold to you under a certain name, it does not mean it should be regarded as a holotype.

And lastly, you must always remember that taxonomy is a human construction we created for our benefit and nature will not always fit into our little naming system as easily as we would like it to. As with any science, it is never static, and as we learn new things, we will adjust the knowledge base as needed.
__________________
Growing bananas in Colorado, Hawaii and Washington since 2004.
Gabe15 is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To Gabe15
Said thanks:
Old 10-30-2008, 08:15 PM   #15 (permalink)
The causasian Asian!
 
Chironex's Avatar
 
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
Zone: I have no idea
Name: Scot
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,788
BananaBucks : 60,784
Feedback: 9 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 4,544 Times
Was Thanked 1,375 Times in 793 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 609 Times
Send a message via MSN to Chironex Send a message via Yahoo to Chironex
Default Re: Flaviflora and Thomsonii differences?

Just had another Thomsonii seed sprout today!
__________________
Scot


Click for Jakarta, Indonesia Forecast
Chironex is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To Chironex
Reply   Email this Page Email this Page






Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:30 PM.





Follow us:
Twitter YouTube

All content © Bananas.org & the respective author.