51st state

they are so not the same plant... Thomsonii has red undersides for a start.

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Chironex

Kev, I have these in my germinator and just had the first sprout of thomsonii pop up this morning. where did you find the flaviflora? I want to try those as well.
The ingens seeds are planted in various media along with 5 of them in embryo rescue. So far, not much to report, but only one had contamination to date. Keep your fingers crossed!

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Scot

51st state

Hi Scot
from this guy in holland but he's not listing any at present. might be worth asking him though.

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51st state

it would help if i added the link

SAGOFARM: Wij verkopen Banaanachtigen, Trachycarpus, Koudebestendige Bananen. eBay Winkel

don't buy no dodgy seeds you know what the dutch are like

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Chironex

Guess I will have to wait for the scouser to get more then.

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Scot

51st state

I should have some pups next year. I'll send you one..., you can TC it.

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Chironex

That would be great Kev, thank you!

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Scot

Gabe15

The true M. flaviflora has not been seen in a long time. Simmonds had it in Trinidad during his time, but his collection is mostly gone from what I have heard. Who knows what the M. flaviflora on the market is though. In addition, a new species M. chunii appears to be similar to what M. flaviflora is supposed to look like.

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Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties.

51st state

Hi Gabe
Aaah, not quite correct. It features in H J Noltie's Flora of Bhutan (1994). Along with a checklist for the taxonomic differences between Flaviflora and Thomsonii.
As to the Flaviflora seeds which were on the market, whilst I cannot be certain what mine is (yet) I do know what it isnt. I'll just have to hope i can get it to flower next year. I have e mailed the seed supplier in holland for details of the provenance of the seeds.

Noltie also refers to at least one other as yet unidentified Rhodochlamys species and speculates that "several other species of this section are highly likely to occur in Bhutan"

I can't open the e papers on Musa Chunii. I would be interested in seeing them if you could PM or email them to me. to see how the characteristics differ.

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Chironex

Same here, I would like to see these papers. Thanks

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Scot

Gabe15

You're right, I was thinking of M. sanguinea which has not been seen. M. flaviflora, being better documented than species like M. sanguinea, is still somewhat unknown in the horticulture trade and even in botanic gardens, and I find it doubtful that a seed company would be selling something such as M. flaviflora true to its name, but you never know. Markku noted that there was a seed company from NE India selling seeds with pictures of his new M. chunii. I'll ask Markku about their relationship and the status of M. flaviflora. PM or email me, whoever would like to see the article.

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Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties.

bigdog

I've seen the M. chunii article, and it looks almost exactly like what some were calling Musa sp. 'Violet' (and maybe still are?) The same picture is on the tropengarten website, but he lists it as a hybrid between M. rosacea and M. acuminata subsp. burmannicoides. Kenibreed has what looks like the same plant on their website also.

Not sure if this link will work, since I am on a school computer right now and have access to scientific journals here, but here is the link to Hakkinen's M. chunii article, complete with pics.

Frank

BTW, in another recent article, Hakkinen lists M. thomsonii as a synonym for M. flaviflora, or vice-versa...can't remember.

51st state

Yes thats what really got me going... my message to Mr Hakkinen is... read the taxonomic descriptions for these plants especially in 'flora of bhutan' or look at my plants, they are no way the same.
I really dont understand how things stand here

flaviflora does not = thomsonii any more than Nagensium = Cheesmanii

but he says it does and who are we to question that...

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Gabe15

What you have to understand is, there is no reason that the plant you have as M. flaviflora is the same as what was originally described as M. flavlifora, and the same goes with M. thomsonii.

Also, a common phenomenon in wild Musa is the presence of multiple varieties of a species (due to relatively quick life cycles), which constitute a rather wide range of diversity, and may look completely different from each other, yet when compared with other species in a given region, it will become apparent that they indeed are closely related and can be classified under a single species.

Just because you have a plant that was sold to you under a certain name, it does not mean it should be regarded as a holotype.

And lastly, you must always remember that taxonomy is a human construction we created for our benefit and nature will not always fit into our little naming system as easily as we would like it to. As with any science, it is never static, and as we learn new things, we will adjust the knowledge base as needed.

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Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties.

Chironex

Just had another Thomsonii seed sprout today!

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Scot