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Species Bananas Discussions of all the different wild species of banana (non edible), an aspect of the hobby that deserves its own section.


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Old 11-07-2010, 02:00 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Ensete Lasiocarpa

I didn't know this had been re-named from Musella Lasiocarpa. Can someone confirm if Kew are correct?
Please see here Plants & Fungi: Ensete lasiocarpa (golden lotus banana) - Species profile from Kew
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Old 11-07-2010, 02:08 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ensete Lasiocarpa

But Ensetes dont pup? It was written somewhere that Musella is its own specie?
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Old 11-07-2010, 02:12 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ensete Lasiocarpa

I have heard this being it's on kind. (From observation alone, I would agree).
Ensetes do pup on occasion.

They have it listed:
  • Synonym(s): Musella lasiocarpa
I don't see how that is a synonym, perhaps a common name.
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Old 11-07-2010, 04:18 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ensete Lasiocarpa

Hi Kev,
I always thought it was the other way round; Musella was in Ensete then given its own species status in Musella!
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Old 11-07-2010, 04:28 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ensete Lasiocarpa

Musella had been shifted between Musa and Ensete for sometime before being given it's own genus. It is genetically very close to Ensete, and more or less a form of Ensete, but there are some differences of course.

I am not aware of any recent changes to the taxonomy, I think Kew just has it wrong. Although you'd think they have it all right, in fact many of their labels, especially their bananas (for our interest) are not labeled well. I suppose it comes with having so many plants, that no one can be an expert in all of them.
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Old 11-07-2010, 06:43 AM   #6 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Ensete Lasiocarpa

Hi,

Musa lasiocarpa Franch.

in Journal de Botanique 3: 329 (1889). — Type: Franchet (1889), Journal de Botanique 3: fig 1 (lecto-, designated by Häkkinen & Väre 2008).

Ensete lasiocarpum (Franch.) Cheesman, Kew Bulletin 2: (1947: 102); Musella lasiocarpa (Franch.) H.W.Li, Acta Phytotaxonomica Sinica 16: (1978: 57).

The Abbé Delaway discovered the plant in 1885 in the mountainous regions of Yunnan (Baker 1894). Musella lasiocarpa is the currently used name. Musella splendida Valmayor (2002) is synonymous with it.

****************************

I am quoting a part of our recent publication:

Li, L., Häkkinen, M., Yuan, Y-M., Hao, G. & Ge, X-J. 2010. Molecular phylogeny and systematics of the banana family (Musaceae) inferred from multiple nuclear and chloroplast DNA fragments, with a special reference to the genus Musa. Mol. Phylogenet. Evol. 57(1): 1-10.

“The generic status of Musella has long been debated. Franchet (1889) placed it under Musa (Musa lasiocarpa) as a new section based on its dwarf pseudo-stem (<60 cm) and compact rosette
inflorescence. After re-establishing the genus Ensete, Cheesman (1947) suggested that M. lasiocarpa is not a species of Musa because of its inflorescence and treated it as a species of Ensete (Ensete lasiocarpum). Thereafter, Li (1978) established a new genus Musella based on this species which has the following combination of characters: dwarf, congested pseudo-stems (<60 cm); horizontal rhizomes; compact rosette inflorescences with yellow to orange bracts; short, hirsute fruits, etc. This array of morphological characters is unique within Musaceae and even within the order Zingiberales. Interestingly, both previous (Liu et al., 2010) and our current molecular phylogenetic analyses suggested that Musella and Ensete may share a congeneric status. However, due to poor support for the clades in molecular trees in both previous and our current analyses, we cannot conclude with confidence whether Musella should be treated as a member of Ensete or as its sister. The monotypic Musella is unique in geographic distribution and ecological preference.
It occurs in the conifer-oak mixed forests between 1500 and 2500 m altitude in southwestern China (Li, 1978) and ecologically it can tolerate drier and colder habitats than any other members of the family and can reproduce naturally in such environments (Liu et al., 2002). Further studies by sampling more molecular markers from both nuclear and chloroplast genomes may help to elucidate
its generic standing”.

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Old 11-07-2010, 02:26 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ensete Lasiocarpa

I have e mailed Kew and pointed out the error to them.
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Old 11-09-2010, 02:02 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ensete Lasiocarpa

And Kew have said:-

"Many thanks for your email highlighting the nomenclature of the Ensete lasiocarpa species profile. It is important to us to make sure these pages are as up to date as possible so appreciate you taking the time to contact us.

I have forwarded this information to David Mabberley, Keeper of Kew's Herbarium, who will advise us on what to do from here. David is away on business until the 15 November so I won't be able to update you - and the page - until after this date.
"

I'll keep the .org up to date when I get a reply

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Old 11-10-2010, 11:10 PM   #9 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Ensete Lasiocarpa

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seek Christ View Post
I have heard this being it's on kind. (From observation alone, I would agree).
Ensetes do pup on occasion.

They have it listed:
  • Synonym(s): Musella lasiocarpa
I don't see how that is a synonym, perhaps a common name.
I trust, that this site is inclusive of Christians as well as Hindus, Buddhists, Zoroastrian, Sikhs, Baha' i, Muslims and Atheists (have I left anyone out?). I therefore believe, that fervent religious statements are disruptive, create animosity with followers of different philosophies and have no place in a banana forum.
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Old 11-11-2010, 07:22 AM   #10 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Ensete Lasiocarpa

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olafhenny View Post
I trust, that this site is inclusive of Christians as well as Hindus, Buddhists, Zoroastrian, Sikhs, Baha' i, Muslims and Atheists (have I left anyone out?). I therefore believe, that fervent religious statements are disruptive, create animosity with followers of different philosophies and have no place in a banana forum.
Me! Jewish. But I don't find his signature disturbing; after all, it is his signature.
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Old 11-11-2010, 10:06 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ensete Lasiocarpa

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olafhenny View Post
I trust, that this site is inclusive of Christians as well as Hindus, Buddhists, Zoroastrian, Sikhs, Baha' i, Muslims and Atheists (have I left anyone out?). I therefore believe, that fervent religious statements are disruptive, create animosity with followers of different philosophies and have no place in a banana forum.
Thank you for your comments. I am actually a spiritual Jew.
I am not aware of any forum rule that I am breaking.
If you (which seems to be the case) have a problem I would encourage you to take it up with MediaHound (Site owner).
As posting it in here is off topic.
(BTW a little double standard eh?)
If you no longer wish to see me click on your 'user cp' then down towards the bottom is the 'buddy / ignore list' and add my name 'Seek Christ'
Whenever I post you will simply see a message saying someone on your ignore list posted and nothing more.
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Old 11-11-2010, 02:45 PM   #12 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Ensete Lasiocarpa

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seek Christ View Post
I am not aware of any forum rule that I am breaking.
Neither am I, therefore I trust my new signature will also be okay with you.

However, religion belongs in homes, synagogues, churches, temples etc, as well as denominational schools and institutions, but have IMOEO no place in a secular discussion forum.

I believe, that almost all the participants in this forum hail from countries, which guarantee freedom of religion. That must by its nature also include freedom from religion, namely somebody else’s.

Since I am opposed to religious statements (and discussions) in a secular forum, which should be inclusive to all philosophies, I will make no further comments on this subject. The "signature" below has the sole purpose to underline my point.
Therefore I will leave you the privilege of the final word on this subject.

_______________________________________

Allah teaches us:

وَقيلَ لِلَّذينَ اتَّقَوا ماذا أَنزَلَ رَبُّكُم ۚ قالوا خَيرًا ۗ لِلَّذينَ أَحسَنوا فى هٰذِهِ الدُّنيا حَسَنَةٌ ۚ وَلَدارُ الءاخِرَةِ خَيرٌ ۚ وَلَنِعمَ دارُ المُتَّقينَ ﴿٣٠﴾ جَنّٰتُ عَدنٍ يَدخُلونَها تَجرى مِن تَحتِهَا الأَنهٰرُ ۖ لَهُم فيها ما يَشاءونَ ۚ كَذٰلِكَ يَجزِى اللَّهُ المُتَّقينَ ﴿٣١﴾ الَّذينَ تَتَوَفّىٰهُمُ المَلٰئِكَةُ طَيِّبينَ ۙ يَقولونَ سَلٰمٌ عَلَيكُمُ ادخُلُوا الجَنَّةَ بِما كُنتُم تَعمَلونَ ﴿
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Old 11-11-2010, 03:37 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ensete Lasiocarpa

Why would your signature bother me? I can't even read it. If I could read it I still would not care. Believe whatever you want to.

Again thank you for you opinion on the matter. Until it becomes a forum rule....Well to be honest I don't care what you think on the matter.
If you do not believe that Jesus is the Christ why does this bother you so much? When I was an atheist I would laugh at me...not get all up set about it.
This is my last response to in this thread in regards to my signature.
Since you are opposed to religious statements. I would re-direct you to my previous post, where I explain how to block people. Please do so.
If you care to discuss it farther feel free to PM me. (In which I will direct you to my previous statement).
I will once again direct you to Jarred (MediaHound) forum admin and owner. Here is a link to his profile:
Bananas.org - View Profile: MediaHound

OP I apologize for derailing your thread.

P.S. Thank you for changing your signature, my brother and I had a good laugh over it.
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Old 11-11-2010, 09:02 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ensete Lasiocarpa

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olafhenny View Post
I trust, that this site is inclusive of Christians as well as Hindus, Buddhists, Zoroastrian, Sikhs, Baha' i, Muslims and Atheists (have I left anyone out?). I therefore believe, that fervent religious statements are disruptive, create animosity with followers of different philosophies and have no place in a banana forum.
You left a lot of people out.
Secondly, you did exactly what you were complaining someone else was doing. To me, this makes no sense whatsoever. And the only rule we have the precedes ALL the other rules is specifically, "no nonsense". I advise you check the bold letters on this page, prior to the list of rules:
Bananas.org Rules
Personal attacks are also not allowed. And the proper way to report issues is to take it up with management. Please read the rules page from top to bottom, and leave the topic about religion alone from here forward.
As a side note, I will give some thought to the core issue and make a decision after some time if the rule about objectionable or offensive topics needs to be clarified to include religion. Any more discussions about any of this should be sent to me in private.
Please let this thread continue about its intended topic. Thank you.
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Old 11-13-2010, 10:21 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ensete Lasiocarpa

I think Muesella Lasiocarpa should be its own Genus because it is unique, It does resemble ensette more then musa so its name probably should have been a variant of ensette
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Old 11-13-2010, 10:32 AM   #16 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Ensete Lasiocarpa

Musa classification does not base on what one is thinking about it. It is based on the scientific rules in according to the International Code of Botanical Nomenclature.
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Old 11-13-2010, 02:07 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ensete Lasiocarpa

Guys, please, spiritual debates etc. in the Insomnia Thread. That's where you can discuss and no harm to bananas is done.

Markku, how come you got to the job you're doing and all that knowledge? I would hardly imagine a guy from Finland (?) doing so much in the banana industry.
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Old 11-14-2010, 03:58 PM   #18 (permalink)
 
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Smile Re: Ensete Lasiocarpa

Please forgive me for interrupting this thread but I must correct Jack in advertising the Insomnia Thread as a place for religious debates...


My insomnia thread is for nothing but friendly and lighthearted chat that is non-offensive to members, and does not encourage personal attacks on people's religion or personal political
views.


Look for Jack's new thread soon that will welcome debates and arguments of this nature but please, kindly leave it out of the insomnia thread.


Thanks.



As if you didn't know this, Jack! Maybe I'll start your new thread for you...



My apologies...back to Ensetes...


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Old 11-16-2010, 03:44 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ensete Lasiocarpa

Kew have informed me that they have followed the Taxon (2010) argument but will add a note to say that this has been questioned by Li et al. (2010). This has now be reflected in the webpage:

Plants & Fungi: Ensete lasiocarpa (golden lotus banana) - Species profile from Kew

regards

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Old 11-17-2010, 05:33 AM   #20 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Ensete Lasiocarpa

Thanks kev! Well done.
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