Bananas.org

Welcome to the Bananas.org forums.

You're currently viewing our message boards as a guest which gives you limited access to participate in discussions and access our other features such as our wiki and photo gallery. By joining our community, you'll have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload photos, and access many other special features. Registration is fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Go Back   Bananas.org > Banana Forum > Species Bananas
The Facebook Platform
Register Photo Gallery Classifieds Wiki Chat Map Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Species Bananas Discussions of all the different wild species of banana (non edible), an aspect of the hobby that deserves its own section.


Members currently in the chatroom: 0
The most chatters online in one day was 17, 09-06-2009.
No one is currently using the chat.

Reply   Email this Page Email this Page
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 08-18-2008, 06:21 AM   #1 (permalink)
 
blackdanter's Avatar
 
Location: Hastings, England
Zone: 9
Name: John
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 13
BananaBucks : 2,124
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 0 Times
Was Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
Default 2008 Seedlings - Seed Mix Up!

Hi All,

This is my first post on this site. I thought I'd give banana seed another go this year ............... having given up on them for the past couple of years due to not having an airing cupboard in the new house!. Anyway, I planted up a tray of Sikki Red Tiger, Daj Giant, Helen Hybrid and Cheesemans and promptly forgot about them. Nothing came up after two months so I picked them all out and bunged them in an unlabelled community pot where three plants promptly sprouted. Two look like Sikkis of some description to me and are very vigourous growers but is there any way to ID what they are?

Doh, did the same thing with a second tray containing Balbisiana, Balbisiana 'Neu Art', Formosana and Aurantiaca. I'm pretty sure there's no Aurantiaca in there as most everything looks like Balbisiana except two plants (not big enough to photo yet) which seem to be retaining the narrow leaf shape and don't have the classic bluey glaucus look. Interestingly, when I pricked out the Balbisiana I found that I could not separate some plants as they appeared to be double shoots .......... anyone else noticed this?

I'm glad to say that the correctly labelled stuff (according to the suppliers) is popping up, Musa Yunnan, Gigantea and Microcarpa (from Sementes).

I've uploaded some picks to the species gallery and would appreciate some comments for ID purposes.

Also, what exactly is Gigantea (from Sementes) as there seems to be some confusion as to whether it is a form of Balbisiana or Itinerans? The seed was the same size as Balbisiana but much more rounded, smooth and a chocolate brown colour (definitely not Itinerans like). Actually, the Microcarpa seed looked different from that obtained from other suppliers as well!

Cheers

John.
__________________


Last edited by blackdanter : 08-18-2008 at 06:24 AM. Reason: typo
blackdanter is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To blackdanter
Said thanks:

Join Bananas.org Today!

Are you a banana plant enthusiast? Then we hope you will join the community. You will gain access to post, create threads, private message, upload images, join groups and more.

Bananas.org is owned and operated by fellow banana plant enthusiasts. We strive to offer a non-commercial community to learn and share information. Receive all three issues from Volume 1 of Bananas Magazine with your membership:
   

Join Bananas.org Today! - Click Here


Sponsors

Old 08-18-2008, 09:46 AM   #2 (permalink)
Retired.
 
Richard's Avatar
 
Location: Vista, CA
Zone: USDA 10b
Name: Richard
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,211
BananaBucks : 308
Feedback: 9 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 3,291 Times
Was Thanked 11,292 Times in 4,328 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,668 Times
Default Re: 2008 Seedlings - Seed Mix Up!

Welcome! See this forum for more introductions: Member Introductions, Social Announcements & Good Wishes - Bananas.org

__________________


8 million banana bucks and counting.
Frequently found at GrowingFruit.org
Richard is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To Richard
Old 08-18-2008, 11:42 AM   #3 (permalink)
Member
 
Tropicallvr's Avatar
 
Name: Kyle
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,032
BananaBucks : 276,572
Feedback: 6 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 230 Times
Was Thanked 382 Times in 155 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 14 Times
Default Re: 2008 Seedlings - Seed Mix Up!

I haven't tried Musa sikkimensis red tiger from seed, but if all the plants have the tell tale dark red splashes when grown from seed then it is likely red tiger. I know with the regular sikkimensis seeds you get some that are red splashed and some that are not. With Musa sikkimensis 'red flash' they all seemed to have the red coloring. Also pure sikkimensis isn't supposed to have any wax, and the two other hybrids you have will likey have some wax, but some also seem to have faint red splashes. Telling the difference between the two hybrids might be difficult, but I'll post some pics in a few months of those two hybrid types, and that might help you. The Musa cheesmani's should be really easy to distinguish from the rest, really narrow leaf, and it will get even more different with age.
The mixing of the Musa balbisiana's and the Musa 'Formosiana' is a really tough one. The Musa formosiana actually has turned out to be a form of Musa balbisiana from Tawain, so you gonna have alot of trouble telling the three apart, but the M.aurticana should be a chinch to tell from the rest.
Another way to tell might be to search next to the stems for the seed, and find some pictures for reference. I have some seed pictures in my gallery that might help.
Tropicallvr is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To Tropicallvr
Old 08-18-2008, 12:35 PM   #4 (permalink)
 
blackdanter's Avatar
 
Location: Hastings, England
Zone: 9
Name: John
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 13
BananaBucks : 2,124
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 0 Times
Was Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
Default Re: 2008 Seedlings - Seed Mix Up!

Thanks Tropicallvr
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tropicallvr View Post
I haven't tried Musa sikkimensis red tiger from seed, but if all the plants have the tell tale dark red splashes when grown from seed then it is likely red tiger. I know with the regular sikkimensis seeds you get some that are red splashed and some that are not. With Musa sikkimensis 'red flash' they all seemed to have the red coloring. Also pure sikkimensis isn't supposed to have any wax, and the two other hybrids you have will likey have some wax, but some also seem to have faint red splashes.
No obvious red splashes as yet but then I also bought some Red Tiger seedlings this year and was dissapointed when they arrived to find that they didn't have red markings. These have since appeared as the plants have aged a few months and are really quite striking (I hope that they maintain the colouring into maturity). As you say, these plants have quite waxy stems but my self grown seedlings aren't showing any wax or red markings just a red leaf midrif on the upper side only. I'll have to wait and see how they develop I guess!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tropicallvr View Post
The Musa cheesmani's should be really easy to distinguish from the rest, really narrow leaf, and it will get even more different with age.
The mixing of the Musa balbisiana's and the Musa 'Formosiana' is a really tough one. The Musa formosiana actually has turned out to be a form of Musa balbisiana from Tawain, so you gonna have alot of trouble telling the three apart, but the M.aurticana should be a chinch to tell from the rest.
Another way to tell might be to search next to the stems for the seed, and find some pictures for reference. I have some seed pictures in my gallery that might help.
I do have one which I am convinced is Cheesmani but it is a real slow grower and seems to be rather sickly as it has trouble maintaining more than two leaves at a time. I have noticed that this plant only puts out leaves opposite each other (not 360 degrees around the stem ....... if you see what I mean!) so that the plant looks flattened?

Doh! I really blundered with the Balbisiana then! Guess I'll just have to grow them on and see if any more differences show as the plants mature. At this stage, there are two plants with obviously narrower leaves and lacking the glaucus blue colouring ............... hoping for Formosiana with those.

Thanks for the pointer to the gallery. I'll check your seeds against mine.

John
__________________

blackdanter is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To blackdanter
Old 08-18-2008, 12:37 PM   #5 (permalink)
 
blackdanter's Avatar
 
Location: Hastings, England
Zone: 9
Name: John
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 13
BananaBucks : 2,124
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 0 Times
Was Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
Default Re: 2008 Seedlings - Seed Mix Up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard View Post
Welcome! See this forum for more introductions: Member Introductions, Social Announcements & Good Wishes - Bananas.org

Thanks Richard.
__________________

blackdanter is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To blackdanter
Sponsors

Old 08-18-2008, 07:04 PM   #6 (permalink)
Moderator

 
bigdog's Avatar
 
Location: Smyrna, TN
Zone: 7a
Name: Frank
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,986
BananaBucks : 474,515
Feedback: 7 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 195 Times
Was Thanked 1,631 Times in 456 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 131 Times
Send a message via AIM to bigdog Send a message via MSN to bigdog
Default Re: 2008 Seedlings - Seed Mix Up!

John,

Welcome to the forum, first of all!

Sementes Seeds has some really screwy, made-up names, lol. A lot of them just don't make any sense at all, and so I have not ordered from them. Sunshine-seeds seems to have their ID's working a bit better for them, and they are a good company.

If you look in my gallery, I have pictures of young Musa formosana (they are in there somewhere, lol), which like Kyle said is actually something else (although I didn't know it was a M. balbisiana form!). I also have pics of young M. balbisiana. The M. balbisiana will develop a yellowish coloring to the pseudostem, whereas the ones labeled as M. formosana will not. They are much more bluish-green.

My 'Darjeeling Giant' had no red splashes whatsoever on the leaves, but 'Helen's Hybrid' and 'Red Tiger' did. 'Helen's Hybrid' will have more rounded leaf bases than 'Red Tiger', although they will look similar when still very young. 'Helen's Hybrid' also has more wax on the pseudostem than 'Red Tiger'.

Good luck, and post some more pics as they grow! It'll become easier to ID them then.
bigdog is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To bigdog
Old 08-20-2008, 07:24 PM   #7 (permalink)
Member
 
Tropicallvr's Avatar
 
Name: Kyle
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,032
BananaBucks : 276,572
Feedback: 6 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 230 Times
Was Thanked 382 Times in 155 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 14 Times
Default Re: 2008 Seedlings - Seed Mix Up!

You're right Frank, I was kinda jumping the gun on that one, but it looks like an M.balbisiana when younger. Maybe your Formosianas will end up having a distinct appearance, I'm kinda out of the loop now cause I sold mine when I moved(but I should get ahold of the gal to find out if they survived zone 8). I have a couple of lower p-stem pics in my gallery, but a bigger size would be better(height, leaf base ect).
Tropicallvr is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To Tropicallvr
Old 08-21-2008, 04:02 AM   #8 (permalink)
 
blackdanter's Avatar
 
Location: Hastings, England
Zone: 9
Name: John
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 13
BananaBucks : 2,124
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 0 Times
Was Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
Default Re: 2008 Seedlings - Seed Mix Up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdog View Post
John,

Welcome to the forum, first of all!

Sementes Seeds has some really screwy, made-up names, lol. A lot of them just don't make any sense at all, and so I have not ordered from them. Sunshine-seeds seems to have their ID's working a bit better for them, and they are a good company.

If you look in my gallery, I have pictures of young Musa formosana (they are in there somewhere, lol), which like Kyle said is actually something else (although I didn't know it was a M. balbisiana form!). I also have pics of young M. balbisiana. The M. balbisiana will develop a yellowish coloring to the pseudostem, whereas the ones labeled as M. formosana will not. They are much more bluish-green.

My 'Darjeeling Giant' had no red splashes whatsoever on the leaves, but 'Helen's Hybrid' and 'Red Tiger' did. 'Helen's Hybrid' will have more rounded leaf bases than 'Red Tiger', although they will look similar when still very young. 'Helen's Hybrid' also has more wax on the pseudostem than 'Red Tiger'.

Good luck, and post some more pics as they grow! It'll become easier to ID them then.
Thanks Bigdog,

I twigged that Sementes seeds were a bit oddly named at the time but curiosity got the better of me! Everything that I was interested in I have duplicated from different sources, Sunshine Seeds, Sementes and Paradise Palms and I've noticed some differences in seeds of the same species from different suppliers. Off the cuff, Burmese Blue looks different in form as does Nagensium. Sementes Sakhalin looks unlike most everything else I have and I am keen to germinate this one (again, curiosity got the better of me!). I'll post more pics as the plants mature ................ the next issue is going to be overwintering space!

You have some fantastic looking plants in your gallery, well done.

Best

John.
__________________

blackdanter is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To blackdanter
Reply   Email this Page Email this Page

Previous Thread: Musa Santa Morelli
Next Thread: Musa Basjoo in Zone 3





Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:14 AM.





Follow us:
Twitter YouTube

All content © Bananas.org & the respective author.